2H starter (1 Viewer)

[Radd Cruisers]

A few things come to mind:

The red-ish 'paper' insulator that sits near hole for the plunger can get off center and cause the plunger to bind.

There is a ball that lives in the little hole where the spring and shaft that protrude from the plunger go into.

The square metal tab looks like the head of a bolt... many of the electrical contact bolts in the starter have square head. Is one of the contacts missing this?

If the two replaceable contacts are worn unevenly, or installed so that they are not flat to the plunger contact face, you will get poor contact and poor starts.


~John

 

[lostmarbles]

That is AWESOME! OK, now where'd that diagram come from, it isn't in my FSM. What you posted is amazing info, but the diagram is as clear as the name of this forum.

Well that was from the 1977 B & 2B ENGINE MANUAL.

How about this from the 1988 B, 3B, 11B, 14B manual then:





Some people take a lot of pleasing!

 

[Tofudebeest]

Holy s***. Toyota (Nippondenso, I am sure) really made nut crunching design there, huh?

I am gonna pull this starter one last time, with no beers in my belly/brain, and see if I can't figure out this little STUPID tab before I abandon the effort and hand it off to a professional.

Many thanks. This is classic MUD-level tech support. In fact this info is so esoteric and unprecedented in this forum (at least from all the searching I have done), that this should get tagged somehow for all 2H (and possibly other) starter rebuild problems.

 

[Tofudebeest]

Where the tab goes, vacant:

Where the tab goes, with tab present:

The tab's other half grabs this slot and does who the hell knows what:

One spectator:

Two others:

 

[Tofudebeest]

OK, I keep buying myself some time by routinely pulling this thing and cleaning the contacts and plunger. But I was stuck at Home Depot (in 95F heat) unable to get this to start. hammer whacks galore did not help. I put it in gear, released the p brake and rocked it back and forth to turn the flywheel, oh so slightly. That did the trick. The starter is clearly getting jammed up if the flywheel stops in anything but the perfect spot.

WTF?

 

[lostmarbles]

OK, I keep buying myself some time by routinely pulling this thing and cleaning the contacts and plunger. But I was stuck at Home Depot (in 95F heat) unable to get this to start. hammer whacks galore did not help. I put it in gear, released the p brake and rocked it back and forth to turn the flywheel, oh so slightly. That did the trick. The starter is clearly getting jammed up if the flywheel stops in anything but the perfect spot.

WTF?

Maybe use a die grinder (dremel or similar) to grind off the burrs on the teeth on your starter cog (and maybe tidy up the teeth on your "flywheel ring-gear" too)?

The teeth certainly look a bit "munted" here:





(Might be a cheap solution but I don't know how long it would last for.)

 

[Tofudebeest]

Did that last night, actually. Didn't help at all. I would have already taken this starter to the rebuilder, but something tells me that won't solve the problem. That and I am stubborn and want to figure it out myself.

 

[Hendrik]

The square metal tab looks like the head of a bolt... ~John

....?

 

[Tofudebeest]

John (or anybody else not guessing),
I'd like some solid advice on this, I do not want to waste $90 for nothing.
Could the missing felt washer be causing all this nonsense? Felt? Really? I guess hte logic is as follows: Mr. Toyoda put it in there for a function, otherwise it wouldn't be there...

My very last experiment will be to pull this bitch AGAIN, put in a felt washer, and see if that solves the problem. If not, rebuild. New (not a rebuilt unit) = $350 (shipping not included) from Neil in Oz.

 

[Hendrik]

New (not a rebuilt unit) = $350 (shipping not included) from Neil in Oz.

Sorry - no useful info here. Is that US or AUD $ ?? I've never checked the price here but that's scary. Plus shipping...#$%@

 

[Tofudebeest]

USD. TOYOTA LANDCRUISER 2H STARTER MOTOR - eBay Other Engines, Components, Engines, Components, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 16-Jul-09 08:34:24 AEST)

and then there's this (apparently identical, different price):
TOYOTA LANDCRUISER 2H STARTER MOTOR - eBay Other Engines, Components, Engines, Components, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 21-Jul-09 07:07:09 AEST)

 

[Hendrik]

I am shocked. I found plenty more NEW starters for sale (in oz)- BUT those ebay starters are the cheapest I can find on the net ATM.

Tofudebeest - you have a PM.

 

[tkorade]

I was having the same problem in my HJ47, just a click. replacing the contacts did not help. After running around for an hour with a meter I found the voltage after the starter relay was 2 volts less then at the battery, when the key was in the start position. I replaced the relay and not a problem since.

 

[Tofudebeest]

Well, I did it.

I went to AAMAC.

He eyeballed the starter and said (and mind you that the tag is long gone): "Well, it is Japanese, industrial of some sort, looks familiar. Is this from some kind of heavy machinery?" I said, "If you have seen this unit before, is was probably from a Hino forklift, but this is factory equipped on diesel Landcruisers, which is where this one lives." He replied "Oh, s***, that's cool."

He then said: "So what's it doing"?, and I pulled the gear out and let it snap back and said "It is making that noise, and won't engage. Hammer whacks used to do the trick, but stopped working, now I have to rock the truck back and forth in gear, and sometimes that works. I replaced the contact and plunger about 5000 miles ago, have pulled this bitch at least 20 times to inspect, clean, freshen up the contacts, etc. but the situation is deteriorating quickly."

He said: "And now you are here. Solenoid, buddy, solenoid."

So, not only did he fix that, but he installed two of the four replacement brushes I provided (the positive ones, the neutrals were relatively unworn, as you can see in the photos), and because he felt is was too noisy, he replaced ALL of the bearings, he reset/realigned the contacts, and then POLISHED THE EXTERIOR, because he was unhappy with what my months of beating on this thing with a hammer had done to the case.

I came to pick it up and he apologized for misquoting me on the job. He had quoted me $90.
I was actually prepared for a much bigger bill.














He charged me $62 + tax. $66.19 out the door!!! I jokingly told him that he's a s***ty businessman, and that I really appreciate his more than reasonable rates, honesty, skill, etc..

So, I am giving him a non-functioning 2F starter as a tip (broken wire in the coil). He was more than pleased with that gesture. I also told him I'd send him as much business as I can.

I installed it last night and it is almost silent by comparison, STRONG, and should provide me with hassle-free starts for many years.

 

[lostmarbles]

Great news tofudebeest.

My guess is that the "Pull-in coil" in the old solenoid was toast.

That shop sounds like the ulitmate. (Wish it was here in NZ!)

 

[Tofudebeest]

Well....

Not so fast.

I fueled up today (B100). It was my 5th start since this rebuild...no start. Took about 5-7 tries.

I am going to cry, injure someone and break something, not necessarily in that order.

So...All I can figure is bad wiring, because I made 100% sure my grounding spots were clean and as tight as a frog's ass. So, let's troubleshoot...

Starter torn apart and fully rebuilt. Hammer whacks on the case get it to work, or when it doesn't, putting it in gear and rocking the truck back and forth does...

Not a relay (or is it?)...not the ignition switch (or is it?)...what else could it be?????

Or I guess this starter rebuilder could have missed something...

 

[Tofudebeest]

Shameless self-bump. I am desperate...

 

[lostmarbles]

Well I can't defend self-bumping. (And who can?) Surely it must be on a parr (in shamefulness) with all those other self-......... things.

And my intitial thoughts were to refer you to Dr Death (over the ditch from here - in Australia's Northern Territory). He may be Australian, but I'm told he's very good with advice on "assisted-suicides". (I'm saving for my "trip to end a lifetime".) But then again ..... you mightn't be old enough. This guy has dedicated his life to helping us older folk. (And I'm extremely grateful cos it's not often we get priveledged with special treatment!)

Then I got to thinking of an alternative option. ............But unfortunately diesel is less-flammable than petrol. So by a cruel twist of fate - It will be harder to set the "object of your distress" on fire.

But then again ...... Perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves here. (Maybe save the afore-mentioned generous advice for later?)

I'm pretty sure someone in this thread suggested that your "start relay" could be the culprit (saying that it had been the case for them when they'd experienced identical symptoms). So why not bypass your ignition key and start relay with a wire directly to your starter solenoid. Then if it" does crank" or "doesn't crank" every time you apply juice there - you'd at least have narrowed down (or eliminated) "possible problem areas".

But if you do this ...... Be careful how you apply the power, make sure your cruiser g/box is in neutral beforehand, etc etc. (Or else you may accomplish the 1st goal ahead of time.)

 

[Tofudebeest]

Starter relay was checked.. Did I forget to mention that? Hammer whacks on the starter would not work if it were the relay.



I found "the best mechanic in Gainesville", and we chatted for 15 minutes. I am seeing him on Monday. He suspects a few spots on the flywheel have been worn/deformed, etc. which is where it stops 1/3 of the time to every time, depending on the vehicle, which may be preventing the business end of the starter from meshing, not allowing the contacts and plunger to touch, and hence not energize. If that's the problem, a little dremmel action on the troubled teeth on the flywheel should fix this problem. The starter's gear teeth are nicely knife-edged, but if the flywheel teeth are funky, the starter gear may just be smacking into the teeth on the flywheel and stopping, like a whisky dick on a cold night. Slightly moving the flywheel by rocking the truck in gear or alternatively by whacking the starter might be enough to result in the penetration needed.

Classic...shes needs to be man-handled and roughed up a bit to get turned on...
If this pans out as predicted, it means that Sheila lives after all.

If that's not it, he will bypass the ignition etc. as you suspect, to eliminate some theoretical (likely measurable) voltage loss as the current goes through the components before it gets to the starter.

I am actually gonna drop this starter this weekend and inspect that flywheel closely (with pictures). I may save myself a few hours of $85/hr. labor charges.

 

[lostmarbles]

Might be advatageous to follow the results of this thread too Tofudebeest. (Could be linked to your problem.)

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/293046-no-crank-clutch-switch.html#post4593030