2F Idle Problem (1 Viewer)

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May 27, 2011
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Folks,

This is my first time posting, but I've been lurking for a few years. I haven't had to post since there is so much good info on this site. This time I am stumped and I'm hoping that you guys can help me out. At best I am a shade tree mechanic and at worst a parts replacer so all suggestions are appreciated.

I have a '72 FJ40 with a rebuilt 2f engine (I think it is a 1984 with about 25,000 on the rebuild). It is de-smogged with a Trollhole Carb and HEI Dizzy distributor. Other than this some of the highlights are FJ60 power steering system, 5 Speed transmission, Old Man Emu 4 inch lift on 33's, power brakes with Toyota disks up front, 4 Core Radiator with all new hoses, and a few rust issues.

About 3 weeks ago it started began idling rough. Prior to this, the vehicle sat for about 5 months while I was on a trip. When I returned I put some fuel cleaner in the gas tank to get me by until I filled up again and did a tune-up (new plugs, oil change, etc). During this and the next tank of gas the engine ran better than it ever has (should of known this was a bad sign). Then it started idling rough. Now it idles as if the engine is missing. When I hook my timing light up I get a solid even pulse and then it pauses. The pause coincides with the rough idle and drop in vacuum pressure. Then the engine backfires out of the exhaust, recovers, and the sequence begins again.

I have a vacuum reading of 14-15, which I think is a little low. I do not have tach but I have the rpms set as low as I can and still keep the engine running. The vacuum gauge is hooked up to the hose coming from the intake manifold to the brake booster.

My compression numbers are:
1 2 3 4 5 6
Dry 145 135 125 140 140 145
Wet 150 145 135 150 140 155

In an attempt to correct the idle issue I have done the following (all of which were recommended to other members that have had similar issues).

-Replaced the vacuum lines.

-Replaced the PCV valve.

-Check for vacuum leaks with carb cleaner. Found nothing. Check with a home made smoke machine (cigar smoke into the vacuum line going to the brake booster). Found nothing. Then I pressured the engine with 2-4 psi of air and blew dry ice smoke over the engine. Still found nothing. I know none of these test are 100% but I really don't want to replace the manifold gasket unless I really have to.

-Checked the idle solenoid. It clicks when I turn the key. The engine also dies when I unplug it.

Rebuilt the carb using the FSM and Pin Heads videos (thanks for those, they saved me a lot of time). I dipped the carb, sprayed carb cleaner in all the holes, and blew out with air. The fuel level is half way up in the sighting glass and I have the mixture screw 2 turns out. I also have good fuel flow when I push the gas pedal.

None of these steps have helped the idling problem. I removed the idle solenoid a second time and sprayed carb cleaner through the port followed by compressed air. I removed the plugs, cleaned them, and checked the gaps. Adjusting the timing and the mixture screw on the carb does not improve the idling. Before I replace the manifold gasket I was hoping someone could offer some suggestions. I appreciate the help. If anyone needs more info please let me know.
 
I have a similar issue and I'm rebuilding the carb now. I was really hoping that was the problem... Mine also runs rough up to about 1500 rpm. Do you have that symptom?

Did you check the intake below the carb to be sure there's no crack there?

Your vacuum reading is really low. I got mine over 20, problem remains.
 
Fast Eddy,

Thanks for the response.
I did not see any cracks below the carb. I checked all three times I had to take the carb off (doing it right the first time does not seem to be my MO). The first time I took the carb off there was a puddle of fuel in the manifold so I don't think it is cracked.
My vacuum reading is why I keep thinking it is a leak, but I can't find it and don't want to change the manifold gasket unless I absolutely have to since it seems everyone has problems getting a seal after they remove it.

Could the vacuum reading indicate that I have a problem with my rings?
 
Easy, where are you located? My understanding is the vaccuum will drop 1 every 1000 feet of elevation. So while Fast Eddy may have a 20 at sealevel, a 14-15 would be the same vaccuum at my elevation of 5280...Just saying your numbers may not be too low...
 
"Now it idles as if the engine is missing. When I hook my timing light up I get a solid even pulse and then it pauses. The pause coincides with the rough idle and drop in vacuum pressure."

If the timing light stops flashing, then you're not getting spark. I would start there rather than vacuum leaks or carb adjustments. Repeat the test on all cylinders. If it's just one, start by replacing that one spark plug. (or for a test, swap it with another cylinder and see if the problem moves.

Where do you have the timing set? Have you tried adjusting it by ear for a smooth idle and see where that leaves you with timing?
 
Kurtnkegger,
I live in San Antonio, TX. Elevation about 1300FT.

edwjmcgrath,
I'll try that this afternoon.
Timing: I started where I had the timing before it started idling rough at about 7 degrees BTDC. That didn't work. Then I moved the timing to BTDC and slowly started advancing and retarding it, trying to even out the idling by ear. Retarding it didn't work. Advancing it made it harder to hear the rough idle due to the engine noise, but I was still getting the pause in the timing light. I advanced it until I could not turn the distributor due the spark plug wires (couldn't see the tick mark in the sight window) and slowly started bringing it back to slow the RPMS. Right now I have it back to 7 degrees BTDC since none of that worked.

I'll start with the plugs and then try the wires. The HEI Dizzy distributor is about 2 years old, but only has about 1,000 miles on it(When I get back home I'll look through my records to see what the actual miles on it are).

Thanks guys for the suggestions.
 
Ok, I think I fixed the problem. Some how the timing was 180 degrees out. Not sure how this happened as I have not removed the distributor or why the engine was even starting in this configuration. I followed the FSM to reset everything and the idle has evened out. Tomorrow I'll begin fine tuning everything to get it back on the road.

edwjmcgrath, thanks for the suggestion on the tach/dwell/voltmeter analyzer. I picked one up the other day. It's nice to actually know what the RPMs are set at.
 
Well I was wrong. Got the timing reset at 7 degrees BTDC, idling at 650 RPMs, and adjusted the carb. Idle was even. Hooked up the vacuum advance and took it for a spin. Made it down the road and it started driving like a$$ (no power, sputtering, like it was out of time) to the point that I was barely able to make it back home and could not make it up the drive way. Rotated the engine to the BB and checked the rotor position on the HEI Dizzy Distributor. Before the drive it was pointed at the number 4 cylinder and number 1 spark plug position on the cap. After the drive it was pointed at number 2 cylinder between the number 5 & 3. Pulled the distributor and everything looks ok, including the gears. Put the stock distributor on and it drove fine. Not as much power as the HEI Distributor (at least when it was working), but at least it gets me down the road.

Any thoughts on what and/or how to check the HEI Distributor to figure out what is going on with it? Appreciate any ideas
 
Made it down the road and it started driving like a$$ (no power, sputtering, like it was out of time) to the point that I was barely able to make it back home and could not make it up the drive way.

Have you checked the fuel filter? Or the fuel delivery? Seems more like a fuel starvation problem. Seems like I would check the filter, or pump seeing you recently rebuilt your carb...
 
I have fuel in the fuel filter, fuel is half way in the sight window on the carb, and I have good flow when I press the gas. I am pretty sure it was a timing issue with the HEI Dizzy. With the original distributor it is running fine. No idle issue and no hesitation when driving.

Appreciate the suggestion. Please keep them coming.
 
Put the stock distributor on and it drove fine. Appreciate any ideas.

Leave the stock distributor in. Any properly functioning distributor is going to make the same power and fuel economy, so you might as well use the one that makes it run fine.
 
Some people putting in HEI distributors have reported difficulty with the modifications necessary to make the oil drive work properly and getting the toyota gear mounted properly on the HEI distributor. It sounds like maybe your gears are not meshing properly and are jumping. This is bad-possibly really bad.

I too would stick with some flavor of toyota distributor. If your current 84 distributor works, that would be my first choice.
 
My plan is to keep the stock one in. I would still like to figure out what is going on with the HEI, especially considering the money that was spent on it and the wires.

I had the HEI distributor installed for a little over a year and it worked great, no issues with the initial mounting, timing, or with oil pressure.
 
Sell the HEI and it can be someone else's problem. It is important to learn when to cut your losses.
 
Going through the exact same BS right now myself. After putting it on the machine, found my total gap distance was way jacked! After some more research, found out the DUI distributor I'm using has a history of "sucking" down due to the gear issue mentioned before.

Mine too was only run about 2 years worth of wheeling. Already had to replace the module, cap and rotor, not to mention booty fab an adequate bracket to keep the dang thing from moving with time.

I'm ditching mine and looking at going to a FJ60 upon the recommendation of Georg.

Good luck and your not alone.
 
So is this a "Davis Unified Ignition" HEI, or one pulled from a chevy engine? Has the gear been swapped out?

If not, the gear spacing and tooth pitch differences can pull the guts of the distributor down, causing bearing failure. Here's an article on it.

http://carmutations.com/tiki-index.php?page=Toyota+Land+Cruiser+2F+HEI

If you are seeing "wacky stuff" with your timing light (intermittent spark, "spark Scatter" etc.), believe it. Don't think it's a bad timing light. It's a problem in your distributor, or electrics.

Remember: "90% of carburetor problems are electrical!"

Good Luck -

Rocky
 

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