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- #21
Pulls times will increase when a snatch block is uses since they cut your line speed in half. It make sense if you use a snatch block to reduce weighted load on the line that it will in turn reduce electrical load.
270amp Alternator Install
- Thread starter baggar11
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Pulls times will increase when a snatch block is uses since they cut your line speed in half. It make sense if you use a snatch block to reduce weighted load on the line that it will in turn reduce electrical load.
I see a post above mine - but as the resident advocate for always doing a compound pull if you're still in the 2 top wraps of the spool, I can say that my hand throttle & Odessey are fine (along with reduced strain on winch) - yes, it takes 2 mins to setup a compound pull over a basic recover, but I bet my amp draw as well as battery recovery is shorter despite the longer time under load.
In my mind it's like using an AA battery to power either a 10w light bulb for a minute, or a 20w bulb for 30 seconds - when you kill the circuit the 10w makes a dent in useable power left, but with the hand throttle powering back at a set amperage the whole time, versus a bigger amp draw & same amperage replace by hand throttle on a simple pull --- it seems to me I'm both reducing strain on both my winch and the battery.
You'll use the same amount of energy from the battery & alt to do it either way, but my way w/ a compound pull makes for an overall lesser strain by expanding the length of time it takes to do the same given work.
I know there's a scientific formula there somewhere & my advocating a larger time factor has to reduce the strain variable to do the same amount of given work.
I just don't know the way to express that formula - but by instinct I'd be surprised if I was flat wrong.
@LINUS thats what I was thinking as well in regard to the same amount of work but how it is applied over time. Seems like using a snatch block would reduce the need for a monster alternator or battery setup since the electrical load is spread out over time.
It seems to me a larger alternator would be better suited to cover numerous smaller loads that happen all of the time (additional lights, stereo, fridge, inverters, radio's, etc...) rather than a huge short term load like a winch pull (another battery is probably better for that purpose).
It seems to me a larger alternator would be better suited to cover numerous smaller loads that happen all of the time (additional lights, stereo, fridge, inverters, radio's, etc...) rather than a huge short term load like a winch pull (another battery is probably better for that purpose).
You can disagree with me all you want, but you'd still be wrong.
Your high current draws are off the battery because that is what batteries are designed to do. Any alternator will TRY to keep up when the system voltage drops during a winch pull. However, no alternator will be able to output enough current to satisfy the draw during a pull.
Your example of running a vehicle off an alternator is not a "high current" situation. For example, on your 3FE, the entire EFI system draws 6.25 amps at 2500 RPM. That's not even close to a drop in the bucket for a stock 80 amp unit.
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- #25
We're really saying the same thing here. You quantified your high amp draw at 400 in your previous post. I quanitified my high amp draw most likely around 250 based off of the stat sheet for my specific winch. And like @ZackR mentioned, the use of a snatch block to reduce weighted pull and electrical load could be used. A 270 amp alternator will sure as hell put a bigger dent in a 250 amp winch pull versus the stock 80 amp alternator.
BTW My Winch Specs
4000 lbs @ 170 amps
6000 lbs @ 210 amps
8000 lbs @ 250 amps
10000 lbs @ 300 amps
12000 lbs @ 360 amps
There is a much more symbiotic relationship between the battery and alternator to simply say that one provides the power while the other sits idly by. That is simply not the case. And that's not what I'm saying either. Simply put, the the alternator will do its best to keep up with electrical demands and when those demands exceed its output, the remainder has to come from somewhere. Obviously the battery. Again, I think we're saying the same thing.
Oh yeah, we are.
Those examples were to simply illustrate that vehicle load can be satisfied by the alternator. In rare situations like when a car battery is dead, and continously in the mega-watt stereo example. Whether the load is low or high, and as you put it, the alternator does its best. The latter of my examples you didn't address at all.
I agree, see above. And yeah, this would seem like a high amp alternator would make a great fit for occasional winching.
For my use case, I felt I would get a better bang for the buck on an HO alternator than a dual battery setup when I weighed the pros and cons. I just wanted to post up details to give folks a clear picture of what was required to get that huge alternator mounted and installed so others could effectively weigh the pros and cons in their use case. Cheers.
Interesting video and only one I could find that demonstrates winching with an HO alternator.
Not to open a can of worms with you @baggar11 - the video you posted the guy only has a volt gauge, not an amp gauge. I bet you know the difference but I'm not sure Mr. J&&p guy does.
Then there's his terrain - not exactly a challenging pull, relatively speaking. Smooth hardpack where you are on all 4 & rolling on the bearings is the pull we all wish we had when we give up & start looking for the winch remote, right?
That said, you bought an alt that will no doubt help, and esp so with a hand throttle (didn't catch if you have one, they are nice) -so you can eyeball you winching rather than worry about throttle. Also as someone stated if you either have a big stereo or whatever, you have a way to keep your headlights bright.
(That was a feat for me when I had a crappy Optima & was towing a cargo trailer with a boatload of incandescent bulb running lights, not kidding.)
Then there's his terrain - not exactly a challenging pull, relatively speaking. Smooth hardpack where you are on all 4 & rolling on the bearings is the pull we all wish we had when we give up & start looking for the winch remote, right?
That said, you bought an alt that will no doubt help, and esp so with a hand throttle (didn't catch if you have one, they are nice) -so you can eyeball you winching rather than worry about throttle. Also as someone stated if you either have a big stereo or whatever, you have a way to keep your headlights bright.
(That was a feat for me when I had a crappy Optima & was towing a cargo trailer with a boatload of incandescent bulb running lights, not kidding.)
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- #28
Just a quick update. I was having a pretty good sized vibration in the pedal and at certain cruising rpm's. I touched an extension to the alternator during idle and I could definitely tell it was coming from it. I figured it had to be the 2nd lower bracket mounting bolt.
I slowly ground out the lower bracket until it would accept the 2nd bolt and keep it nice and tight. Vibration is completely gone now. I know I should have done that when I initially stuck in the alternator. Oh well. Still haven't been up to the mountains to test performance of the winch with the new alternator and my old and "probably" dying battery.
Just to recap what's needed to get this alternator in.
1. larger wiring, obviously
2. slight grinding of upper alternator bracket
3. slight grinding on lower bracket to create a hole for the 2nd bolt mount
4. tap one of the 2 tension holes on the alternator or find a proper 7 x 1.25 bolt
I slowly ground out the lower bracket until it would accept the 2nd bolt and keep it nice and tight. Vibration is completely gone now. I know I should have done that when I initially stuck in the alternator. Oh well. Still haven't been up to the mountains to test performance of the winch with the new alternator and my old and "probably" dying battery.
Just to recap what's needed to get this alternator in.
1. larger wiring, obviously
2. slight grinding of upper alternator bracket
3. slight grinding on lower bracket to create a hole for the 2nd bolt mount
4. tap one of the 2 tension holes on the alternator or find a proper 7 x 1.25 bolt
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So you ran a larger fusible link for the alternator too?
cheers,
george.
cheers,
george.
- Thread starter
- #31
I had a chance to get up in the mountains to test the winch and alternator out. So here goes the best evidence I can provide after the alternator install, even though it's anecdotal at best.
For starters, I looked up the sticker on my battery. It was purchased in 11/11, so just past 5 years. Since installing the alternator, I've been checking battery voltage pretty much every morning. It's been right around the recommended minimum of 12.6 volts. I'm currently market shopping for another battery since I don't want to mess around with killing this expensive alternator.
Now, it's hard getting pictures that show good perspective on what the actual incline and conditions were like, but I did my best.
From what I can accurately assess, the run was around the length of the Cruiser @ 15ft and the rise was roughly 4ft. So around a 26% grade. I was only able to pull out enough winch line(before the toddler wanted to be done already, lol) to have around 3 layers on. Given the winch ratings, winch line layers and grade, the best I can tell, the winch was probably pulling around 300+ amps.
Around 10 seconds into pulling, I could tell when the battery kind of gave out in helping. Dash lights lit up and flashed and winch speed slowed down a bit. I stopped winching from outside at idle and hopped in the Cruiser and gave it a little gas and kept winching. Winch speed came back and it pulled great until we were over the hump. Maybe another minute or two more.
Based on my winter trip back in December where I was having problems even pulling for 30 seconds at a time, this was night and day difference. Of course, as noted, it's anecdotal at best and aside from heading up to the mountains without the family, it's the best test I could run through so far.
For starters, I looked up the sticker on my battery. It was purchased in 11/11, so just past 5 years. Since installing the alternator, I've been checking battery voltage pretty much every morning. It's been right around the recommended minimum of 12.6 volts. I'm currently market shopping for another battery since I don't want to mess around with killing this expensive alternator.
Now, it's hard getting pictures that show good perspective on what the actual incline and conditions were like, but I did my best.
From what I can accurately assess, the run was around the length of the Cruiser @ 15ft and the rise was roughly 4ft. So around a 26% grade. I was only able to pull out enough winch line(before the toddler wanted to be done already, lol) to have around 3 layers on. Given the winch ratings, winch line layers and grade, the best I can tell, the winch was probably pulling around 300+ amps.
Around 10 seconds into pulling, I could tell when the battery kind of gave out in helping. Dash lights lit up and flashed and winch speed slowed down a bit. I stopped winching from outside at idle and hopped in the Cruiser and gave it a little gas and kept winching. Winch speed came back and it pulled great until we were over the hump. Maybe another minute or two more.
Based on my winter trip back in December where I was having problems even pulling for 30 seconds at a time, this was night and day difference. Of course, as noted, it's anecdotal at best and aside from heading up to the mountains without the family, it's the best test I could run through so far.
Sooo, you did this with the engine in place, and could eyeball all necessary clearances. Do you see any issue with doing these bracket mods and attaching the alternator while the engine's on a stand, and then dropping the engine in with the alternator in place? Also, do you have the P/N for this alternator? I'm looking to find out if it's the same 270 alt that DCP is now offering specifically for FZJs, or is another model you made fit. Thanks!
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- #33
Unfortunately, I can't find any part numbers. I found an old email of mine asking about the 80 series alternative since they didn't have a model listed on their site at the time. So could very well be a different version than mine.
And yes, it would be much easier to do the bracket modding on an engine stand and then drop the motor back in. If I remember correctly at the time, I just had the battery and box removed and that gave be enough room to work.
Do all the high-current rated aftermarket alternators put out their full rated current at normal idle speeds or does the idle need to be manually adjusted when high current output is required? I run a Denso 110 amp alt on the 1hz motor in my 80 and don't need anything beefier.
How well regulated is the 'DC' output and if the alternators are being asked to output close to their full amps for an extended period how hot do they get? Nothing is free in energy transformation.
How well regulated is the 'DC' output and if the alternators are being asked to output close to their full amps for an extended period how hot do they get? Nothing is free in energy transformation.
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- #35
The DC Power units output on a curve. Much more output at idle vs stock. No low headlight output at idle anymore for instance. Full output is achieved around 2k rpms.
Never stuck a heat gun on the alternator after a good workout. I would imagine any alternator is going to have a shorter lifespan if you work it hard all the time. They can be rebuilt though, which is nice.
Never stuck a heat gun on the alternator after a good workout. I would imagine any alternator is going to have a shorter lifespan if you work it hard all the time. They can be rebuilt though, which is nice.
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