2020 Land Rover Defender

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Now that more information is coming out about the 2020 Land Rover Defender, I'm curious if you all think that it will be a direct competitor to either the 5th Gen 4Runner or the GX 460? The Defender starts at about $50k, which is considerably more than the starting point for a 4Runner. However, the TRD Pro has an MSRP of $46k, which is within spitting distance of the Defender. The GX 460 is in the right price range, but it doesn't come with the same off-road capabilities (stock form) as the Defender.

Whenever I start to compare the two, the biggest differentiator is reliability: their reputations are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. And I suppose I am answering my own question here. Many times, people choose the 4Runner (or GX) because it will complete the trip without any problems 99.99% of the time. People choose the Defender for its incredible off-road reputation and capabilities straight off the showroom floor.
 

Jacket

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I see the new Defender as a similar path to the bastarized Jeep Cherokee in the Jeep crowd. I can only imagine that the LR crowd is horrified by badging that thing as a Defender. It's a mini Disco.
 

D21FJ60

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The current 4runner is approaching 10 years old. That is 10 years of potential problems to be addressed and the after market crowd to find work arounds. Honestly if we were in a better place (this is my mantra at this point) i'd heavily consider one with a third row.
I agree the new defender is very emasculated. I have been following all the press and they are really hyping it up regarding its off road prowess...but the problem is everything is electronic so if you get stuck out in the boonies you are really stuck...
 
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Defender a competitor? I would rather buy a beat up 1st Gen. 4Runner fix it up and dial in all the things I want for it and it would still out live that Defender any day. I have two 4Runners that I bought used and high mileage and I would not hesitate to drive it anywhere my 3rd Gen. is pushing 350k still have the original transmission and most of the drivetrain it's been to Death Valley, Mojave road and other remote places that you wouldn't even dare take that Rover.
 
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Will never trust one, too many issues across the entire brand. Not to mention I think that it looks terrible lol.
You need to buy 2 to even drive it everyday to work........aka out of repair shop. Off-roading in a LR is a marketing campaign based on memeories of distant past. Do they have a real camel race today? I think not!
 
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D21FJ60

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Don't get me wrong, i'd love an L322 or a Classic Range Rover but i'd be so worried of it stranding me. I know there are some that go hundreds of thousands of miles so they are capable, but it is at what cost?
 
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Yeah. Like I said, Land Rover's reputation for unreliability does a lot to eliminate it as an option for anybody looking to do real adventure travel.

I am interested to see how capable it is in the field, though. Can't wait to see those real-world tests.
 

r2m

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The family of Range Rover are great vehicles...
IF you only lease them and plan on keeping them for no longer than 5 years, 60,000 miles or when the warranty runs out, which ever comes first.
As cushy and opulent as Range Rovers are, they notorious for mechanical and electrical issues.
I'd never have one, especially as an overlander where one can easily be stuck in the middle of no-where.
If you get one and want to off road with it, be sure you're with a bunch of other reliable 4x4's and in a well populated off road area for when you break down. AND don't forget your recovery gear!
 
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I don't think LSD or lockers were available stock in those 90's Defenders. The videos of these 90s models I have seen with two wheels off the ground have been very unimpressive with open diffs on both ends without any other assistance.

Always the brake and accelerator at same time tricks I suppose


People choose the Defender for its incredible off-road reputation and capabilities straight off the showroom floor.
 
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I don't think LSD or lockers were available stock in those 90's Defenders. The videos of these 90s models I have seen with two wheels off the ground have been very unimpressive with open diffs on both ends without any other assistance.

Always the brake and accelerator at same time tricks I suppose
Hmm. Good to know.

Then what was the allure of the Defender from the 90's?
 
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A cooler looking Jeep with a 5.0L V8 lol. Some of which didn't even have air conditioning lol. At one point you could buy them used reasonably and then about 10 years ago their values sky rocketed.
 

r2m

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It is amazing what those Defender were able to pull off in the old Camel Trophy races from 1980 thru 2000.
And with an open diff too! They were allowed all sorts of armor for protection along with snorkels, winches, traction pads, etc. but no locking diffs.
 
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nw_fj62

 
 
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Okay, I'll take the bait... I think it is an interesting and directional new offering in the overland vehicle space... I'm glad to see Land Rover take a bold step, look to the future, and bring a modern Defender to the US. With Brexit approaching, the US market has to look more important to LR/Tata.

My guess is that the 10-15yr showroom future belongs to Rivian and electric powered high-clearance vehicles. I see the new Defender as a bridge with the announced product plan including hybrid, plug-in hybrid and speculation on full electric.

With over 20yrs as a Toyota truck owner, I feel the company has been complacent and safe in the US market with dated (albeit proven) gas engines, transmissions and frames. Is the FJC the last "daring" innovation from Toyota trucks? I still have a 15yr old email to Toyota customer service asking if they could bring small diesels to the US in trucks...

Vehicle technology has changed in the last twenty years - and will shift more radically (with electric) in the next ten. I see the new Defender curating the available technologies for the on-road/ off-road customer. I appreciate the broader context of Scott Brady's review at expedition portal.

Just as the mid-size pickup (Tacoma) space is get getting interesting with the new Ranger FX (read Wes Siler's Ranger/Icon/GFC build), Colorado ZR-2, and Jeep Gladiator, the mid+ size SUV space could use fresh eyes & innovation...

So if the 2019 Lexus GX 460 is $55K and the 2019 Land Cruiser is $85K, there seems white space in-between for the fresh approach of the new Defender 110...Base model in Fuji White with steel wheels and duratracs would be a reasonable contemporary baseline...

I drove a 2019 Land Cruiser Prado 150 with a 2.8 D4D diesel on washboards, water-crossing and bumps of Iceland's F-roads a couple weeks ago (as well as highway miles). That or a current 70 series would be interesting options for Toyota US...

My occasional normal posts usually offer more pictures and fewer words...
 
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Okay, I'll take the bait... I think it is an interesting and directional new offering in the overland vehicle space... I'm glad to see Land Rover take a bold step, look to the future, and bring a modern Defender to the US. With Brexit approaching, the US market has to look more important to LR/Tata.

My guess is that the 10-15yr showroom future belongs to Rivian and electric powered high-clearance vehicles. I see the new Defender as a bridge with the announced product plan including hybrid, plug-in hybrid and speculation on full electric.

With over 20yrs as a Toyota truck owner, I feel the company has been complacent and safe in the US market with dated (albeit proven) gas engines, transmissions and frames. Is the FJC the last "daring" innovation from Toyota trucks? I still have a 15yr old email to Toyota customer service asking if they could bring small diesels to the US in trucks...

Vehicle technology has changed in the last twenty years - and will shift more radically (with electric) in the next ten. I see the new Defender curating the available technologies for the on-road/ off-road customer. I appreciate the broader context of Scott Brady's review at expedition portal.

Just as the mid-size pickup (Tacoma) space is get getting interesting with the new Ranger FX (read Wes Silas's Ranger/Icon/GFC build), Colorado ZR-2, and Jeep Gladiator, the mid+ size SUV space could use fresh eyes & innovation...

So if the 2019 Lexus GX 460 is $55K and the 2019 Land Cruiser is $85K, there seems white space in-between for the fresh approach of the new Defender 110...Base model in Fuji White with steel wheels and duratracs would be a reasonable contemporary baseline...

I drove a 2019 Land Cruiser Prado 150 with a 2.8 D4D diesel on washboards, water-crossing and bumps of Iceland's F-roads a couple weeks ago (as well as highway miles). That or a current 70 series would be interesting options for Toyota US...

My occasional normal posts usually offer more pictures and fewer words...
I agree with a lot of what you said above. I'd actually add that I think the way that vehicle prices are trending, as well as fossil fuels, there will be room for several "basic" overland style vehicles in the next 10-15 years in the $30-$40K base range. I think you hit the nail on the head with the Prado diesel. I could see many, many people being interested in something like a 2 door jeep, 2 door Bronco, or even, gasp, a 2 door regular cab "hybrid Jeep/Defender style" pickup truck like the Gladiator IF THE COST WAS RIGHT AND THE BUILD WAS RIGHT. That 2.xL diesel, some decent suspension and drivetrain parts, and a few basic interior accessories. People want something different than a Tahoe or Truck to load their stuff into to go camping, fishing, to the beach, etc.

I live and work in Raleigh NC, and I am constantly amazed at the number of Jeeps that I see men and women driving that they have thrown the book at: tires, lifts, bars, accessories. These folks are young and old, all different races, and I know many can afford much nicer or more plush daily drivers (and a lot of them have them too, I'd bet). So the money is there, I just don't think the answer is a $100K Land Rover. I'd expect a nice bump in value in the current 150 series as even though the tech and overall designs may be a little dated, they are emerging as the go-to overland or "suburbia overland" vehicles for people like me: mid 30's guy who wants a rig that, whenever he does have the damn time, can allow him to get a lot of fun places to fish, be in nature with his family, and escape Suburbia, even if only for the weekend!
 

nw_fj62

 
 
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JR - I'm excited for more good choices in the US market....Hopefully a $50-$60K base level new Defender 110 represents a new wave of interesting choices.

Like the Jeep observation you share, manufacturers would seem wise to set a low/moderate base price and let the consumer add their own (high margin) accessories to suit their taste. If the consumer keeps coming back for more accessories so much the better... Mini Cooper seems to model that... Dare I suggest here that vehicles are often accessorized as a means of personal expression (heresy of course to Mud folk...)

From Vatnajökulsþjóðgarðurinn National Park campground (Iceland) two non-US vehicles that represent broader international range are below. The Dacia Duster also very common in rental pool - looked like a low-spec Romanian Subaru Forester...

Image 1 - a common Iceland rental : Suzuki Jimny with hard shell RTT (no soft shells seen - likely due to high winds)

1568753405319.png


Image 2 : Land Cruiser Prado (150) diesel
1568753581128.png
 
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