2011 LC200 Torque Steer

[ronnunan]

New member here....searching for answers after running out of options trying to figure out why I have torque steer to the right ON ACCELERATION after adding a dobinsons 2” front and 1” rear leveling kit.
I was told I need more positive caster. I couldn’t get +3* so I added the dobinsons UCAs. Multiple alignments and tire rotations... even rotated tires on wheels to eliminate radial pull.
the UCAs helped a little but I still have the pull when I accelerate.
Any ideas?

 

[linuxgod]

What are your alignment specs?

What is your actual lift height (center-of-hub to fender) on all 4 corners?

 

[TeCKis300]

What's your wheel offset? Looks like +25 ish?

 

[CharlieS]

Tire pressures?

 

[ronnunan]

What are your alignment specs?

What is your actual lift height (center-of-hub to fender) on all 4 corners?

 

[ronnunan]

What's your wheel offset? Looks like +25 ish?

Stealth Custom Series ST8

18X 9

5 X 150

6.00"

+25mm

27lb 7oz

 

[ronnunan]

What are your alignment specs?

What is your actual lift height (center-of-hub to fender) on all 4 corners?

Both front tires are 22” almost exactly the same.
Rear is 23 1/2”
Rear may be off a 1/4” between the two..it’s close.

 

[linuxgod]

Ok if left-to-right height up front is the same that's good. A lean will cause some torque steer with the CVs at different angles.

Those alignment specs look pretty good to me. Toe may be slightly high at 3/16" but it's equal. Maybe @Taco2Cruiser will see something in them I'm missing as he's the alignment god Your caster looks fine IMO... mine is similar, and while 3.8+ is a bit above the Toyota specs it should help you track straighter.

You could try a panhard rod but I don't think the left is significant enough to cause that much torque steer with the factory one.

I'm curious to see what this ends up being...

 

[ronnunan]

Ok if left-to-right height up front is the same that's good. A lean will cause some torque steer with the CVs at different angles.

Those alignment specs look pretty good to me. Toe may be slightly high at 3/16" but it's equal. Maybe @Taco2Cruiser will see something in them I'm missing as he's the alignment god Your caster looks fine IMO... mine is similar, and while 3.8+ is a bit above the Toyota specs it should help you track straighter.

You could try a panhard rod but I don't think the left is significant enough to cause that much torque steer with the factory one.

I'm curious to see what this ends up being...

So could the rear panhard bar be it? I was just told of this the other day and to consider either getting a longer one or an adjustable one if available. The lift I got was only 1” in the rear and 2” for the front. The rake appears almost the same as before and the rear did feel like it raised it more than 1”...
I didn’t get measurement before the lift.
I appreciate the help.
As I said, the torque steer increased depending on the amount I accelerate. When I step on it, I can make a nice right curve....wether sitting still or doing it at 60.
Thanks for the response.

 

[afgman786]

So could the rear panhard bar be it? I was just told of this the other day and to consider either getting a longer one or an adjustable one if available. The lift I got was only 1” in the rear and 2” for the front. The rake appears almost the same as before and the rear did feel like it raised it more than 1”...
I didn’t get measurement before the lift.
I appreciate the help.
As I said, the torque steer increased depending on the amount I accelerate. When I step on it, I can make a nice right curve....wether sitting still or doing it at 60.
Thanks for the response.

I'm having the exact same issue as you. I need to get into an alignment shop and get her checked out. For me the torque steer is dramatically heightened when towing.

 

[TeCKis300]

Couple things I can see that may be contributing
1) Front axle toe in @ 0.30 - looks like more toe in than optimal. The 200-series chassis spec doesn't ask for much toe in. I'm not sure where this shop is pulling those specs from, but commonly the total toe spec is for 0* +/- .17*
2) Wheel offset (impacting scrub radius) is a bit aggressive at +25mm. What size are your tires?

 

[ronnunan]

Couple things I can see that may be contributing
1) Front axle toe in @ 0.30 - looks like more toe in than optimal. The 200-series chassis spec doesn't ask for much toe in. I'm not sure where this shop is pulling those specs from, but commonly the total toe spec is for 0* +/- .17*
2) Wheel offset (impacting scrub radius) is a bit aggressive at +25mm. What size are your tires?

tires are 275/70/18
Here’s a previous alignment before the UCAs. I don’t see alignment being the problem.
you think the wheel offset may be a part of it? Stealth Custom Series are made primarily for Toyota....

 

[linuxgod]

I'm having the exact same issue as you. I need to get into an alignment shop and get her checked out. For me the torque steer is dramatically heightened when towing.

Heightened when towing suggests the issue is up front, not in the rear and a panhard rod won't help that. I saw that because (a) adding weight to the rear squats it which effectively reduces/negates the impact of your lift, and (b) adding weight to the rear will shift weight off the front lifting the front end higher, exacerbating the impact of your front lift (e.g. a 2" front lift might effectively be 2.5 or 3" when towing a heavy trailer)

@ronnunan I had some issues a while back with this and Taco2Cruiser commented on how a minimal lift doesn't significantly change your thrust angle or cause torque steer from the rear.

Torque Steer on newly lifted LC

In my case my rear springs needed to be swapped to get the left-to-right lean under control, and that helped the issue somewhat, though hasn't completely eliminated it. I've considered a panhard rod swap before I do my next alignment, but at the moment I'm still on the factory one. So I can't rule it out, but from discussions I've had/read I don't expect it to resolve the issue.

@TeCKis300 I do notice some TS on 34s at +25mm but it's not really pronounced unless I am foot-to-the-floor. Certainly could be related to offset and scrub radius, though I can hard brake without touching the steering wheel and the truck stops straight as an arrow. It's my understanding that if the scrub radius was playing into it that you're feel squirrely on both hard acceleration *and* deceleration. I am no expert though

 

[linuxgod]

tires are 275/70/18
Here’s a previous alignment before the UCAs. I don’t see alignment being the problem.
you think the wheel offset may be a part of it? Stealth Custom Series are made primarily for Toyota....

View attachment 2490891

If that was your alignment before getting adjustable UCAs you made the right call. My specs looked similar before I installed SPCs (and look similar to yours now that I have them).

 

[afgman786]

Heightened when towing suggests the issue is up front, not in the rear and a panhard rod won't help that. I saw that because (a) adding weight to the rear squats it which effectively reduces/negates the impact of your lift, and (b) adding weight to the rear will shift weight off the front lifting the front end higher, exacerbating the impact of your front lift (e.g. a 2" front lift might effectively be 2.5 or 3" when towing a heavy trailer)
...
@TeCKis300 I do notice some TS on 34s at +25mm but it's not really pronounced unless I am foot-to-the-floor. Certainly could be related to offset and scrub radius, though I can hard brake without touching the steering wheel and the truck stops straight as an arrow. It's my understanding that if the scrub radius was playing into it that you're feel squirrely on both hard acceleration *and* deceleration. I am no expert though

I was just referring to alignment shop in general, not for the panhard. Seeing this thread helped my relax a bit.. I had a similar issue in my daily that I would get pull on throttle and that ended up needing stabilizer bushings for the front to resolve my issue (was still under warranty). So I was worried that I'll be looking at KDSS bushings or something else here. I towed same trailer in September and had no issues with pull or anything. Haven't driven the 200 much since then to say I've been on rough roads or anything to mess with alignment, then a few weeks ago when I towed again I had major TS and made pulling that trailer very interesting.

Also to your paragraph about being able to brake straight, that's my case as well. If light on throttle, coasting, or braking it was and is straight. Just under load it pulls right, which made me start thinking maybe a driveline issue or something..

 

[TeCKis300]

Heightened when towing suggests the issue is up front, not in the rear and a panhard rod won't help that. I saw that because (a) adding weight to the rear squats it which effectively reduces/negates the impact of your lift, and (b) adding weight to the rear will shift weight off the front lifting the front end higher, exacerbating the impact of your front lift (e.g. a 2" front lift might effectively be 2.5 or 3" when towing a heavy trailer)

@ronnunan I had some issues a while back with this and Taco2Cruiser commented on how a minimal lift doesn't significantly change your thrust angle or cause torque steer from the rear.

Torque Steer on newly lifted LC

In my case my rear springs needed to be swapped to get the left-to-right lean under control, and that helped the issue somewhat, though hasn't completely eliminated it. I've considered a panhard rod swap before I do my next alignment, but at the moment I'm still on the factory one. So I can't rule it out, but from discussions I've had/read I don't expect it to resolve the issue.

@TeCKis300 I do notice some TS on 34s at +25mm but it's not really pronounced unless I am foot-to-the-floor. Certainly could be related to offset and scrub radius, though I can hard brake without touching the steering wheel and the truck stops straight as an arrow. It's my understanding that if the scrub radius was playing into it that you're feel squirrely on both hard acceleration *and* deceleration. I am no expert though

You're touching on some of the dynamic issues as well. I do think the OP has a pretty big lift also contributing to some of this.

Acceleration and deceleration do have an impact on front suspension attitude. The reason why acceleration has more of an impact is due to greater toe steer (changes in toe) effects as a result of the front end lifting. With a large lift, the suspension gets into a range where toe steer is more problematic with further droop and compression. Braking has tendency to compress the front end towards the more stable part of its travel.

The OPs experience with +25 may be more dramatic than your experience. You're running an almost 34" tire which wants lower offset numbers. He's running closer to a 33".

 

[afgman786]

Posting back here since this where I first mentioned having the same issue.

RECAP:
200 had been lifted and aligned all had been well for close to a year. September I went down to GA and pulled a 40 back up on a trailer and had zero issues. I had 3 passengers with me along with luggage and goodies to take down. Don't drive 200 much, didn't wheel or go on any roads or areas since then until Oct to say something could've bumped my alignment out.
Late October, pull same trail and 40 to a wheeling event and notice I have crazy torque steer to the right under acceleration. I maybe drove the 200 2 or 3 times between when I got back from GA with the trailer and having no issues and going to the wheeling event. Finally got my alignment done this past week and now numbers are good. However, after leaving the dealership I gassed it to see and still have pull to the right.

Cruising and braking there is absolutely no issues and drives dead straight. Alignment sheet in the car, but from memory caster is around 2.6-2.8* along with very little toe in and 0 camber. Driver rear has .3* toe.

Question:
- Could that rear driver toe be causing the issue? Could this rear toe been caused by me shaving the frame side bracket hole open a little wider instead of trying to fight lining the factory LCA back to slide the bolt all the way thru?
- Had a similar issue with constant pull on throttle on my daily and for that I kept going back to them to resolve and alignment specs kept saying the alignment was good, so had them keep it and have their techs drive it around to see what I was talking about and ended up being steering stabilizer bushing that needed to be replaced (daily was under warranty at time). Could this be KDSS bushing or engine mounts for the 200?
- Will be getting a front bumper in the near future and hoping for a long shot that the weight from that will help me out since my front springs are stiff?

 

[rusty87]

I had bad torque steer on my old 100 series that turned out to be front differential bushings. Maybe a check of all front end bushings is in order.

 

[afgman786]

So another point to add as I haven't been able to check bushings, but might be a good sign?

I get right hand pull under load on RW with 285/70/17. Christmas Eve I went to get new tires on my stock rims. On the drive down I got the same right hand pull under load, those were 265/65/18. After getting the new tires, on my way home I was getting no pull 275/70/18. Could the 10mm less offset and/or .5" taller tire really change the alignment enough for me to not have this issue anymore?

The 265/65/18 were Defender LTX with less than 10k on them, so still basically new. The KM3s on the the RW also have less than 10k on them. The new 275/70/18 are Wrangler Adventurer AT with Kevlar just incase someone might think these could have an impact as well.

 

[calixto]

MY2019. Torque steer to the right here as well. Used truck with King 2.5's all around, OME 2723 (2-400lbs) rear springs King 3.16.600 J19 (600lbs) front springs Method Vex wheels 17x8.5 0 offset, 285 70 17 BFG Ko2's. Previous owner had a lot more weight on the vehicle when he set it up including heavy duty steel ARB touring rack & roof top tent, lights etc and he towed a lot. I took off about 300lbs constant load off his set up without changing out springs. I also added new SPC adjustable upper control arms & Dobinsons adustable rear panhard bar to round out the suspension & got a good alignment & tire rotation/balance. Torque steer almost seems worse with the new components & the weight off. On freeway it drifts slightly left with no throttle input then pulls right when accelerating. Pulls right under acceleration in all conditions. Obviously the truck is oversprung now with a lot of weight off of it but could that be causing the torque steer to magnify? Should I be looking at too much wheel offset?...lots of people running same lift/wheeloffset/tire size combos without any issues. I plan on adding new TJM bumper (140lbs) maybe a winch (80 lbs) and eventually some sliders (1-120lbs) at the most to the truck. Swap the springs out? So annoying!