1st gen 4Runner v6 Brake Upgrade Question (1 Viewer)

[84 yota dude]

Hey everyone, have a question about doing a "v6 brake upgrade" on my 1987 4runner. The plan is to run v6 rotors, calipers, fj80 master cylinder [the one from an early 80 series discs up front drums in the rear], and a 2nd gen 4runner brake booster. My one question is what year 2nd gen 4runner brake booster should I use with the fj80 master cylinder? I have read quite a bit on this upgrade and found a mix of info. Everyone says go with the v6 booster to complete the upgrade to maintain good pedal feel. However, when researching some part numbers, I found that the boosters vary from 89-92 and 93-95.
Here are some links
TOYOTA 4RUNNER 1990 4-DOOR WAGON, SR-5,GLX 3000CC EFI, MANUAL, 5-SPEED BOOSTER ASSY, BRAKE - 446103D560 | Toyota Parts Overstock, Lakeland FL

TOYOTA 4RUNNER 1993 4-DOOR WAGON, SR-5,GLX 3000CC EFI, MANUAL, 5-SPEED BOOSTER ASSY, BRAKE - 446103D580 | Toyota Parts Overstock, Lakeland FL

Also a useful site, but not that specific. It appears that the difference between the two is the size, but I can be totally wrong on that.
Brake Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Specs for Toyota 4x4s | Roundforge
If you scroll down, there is a chart that says the difference in boosters from 89-95. However, it doesn't mention the years

-Chris

 

[pappy]

A brake booster is a brake booster. Pick one that is close to the dimensions of what you already have.

 

[84 yota dude]

Thanks for the reply. That is something I thought of. Are all v6 boosters dual diaphragm?
Btw awesome 85 4runner, checked our your thread.

 

[msahr]

When I did mine I used a v6 4runner master cylinder and retained the stock booster. The booster worked fine and didn't need to be replaced. Main thing is that the MC is a 1" bore.

I used 4Runner v6 calipers and upgraded rotors (cross-drilled and slotted) vented ones. This isn't necessary but I never worry about brake fade. All Pro off road has the rotors and a cool ring that eliminates the pressed steel backing plate that can capture rocks.

You'll LOVE the way the new brakes work. Super great feel and they work so much better. One of my best upgrades ever.

Leave the rears alone. Just refresh them with all new parts and shoes plus either new drums or resurface them.

 

[msahr]

Oh yeah invest in stainless steel hoses. Also helps immensely with brake feel.

 

[ntsqd]

Boosters are different even when they do not look like it. There is a pedal effort vs. boost curve that can be varied by the vacuum control valve in the booster and the OEM tunes this to each application. I know of no way to determine which is what short of knowing what the original application was.

I fail to understand why people insist on mixing and matching parts when the complete, known to work well together OEM set-up will bolt on. If it didn't bolt-on then I'd understand mixing and matching to arrive at bolt-on parts, but when all of one designed to work together system will bolt on that is the best possible option.
I have an '88 V6 4rnnr and the stock system works very well, especially when compared to my old '84 Xcab's "upgraded" brakes (vented rotors & IFS calipers). Use the V6 4rnnr everything; booster, m/c, calipers, rotors, and if different rear wheel cylinders. I can understand wanting upgraded rotors, but frankly the stock rotors work pretty danged good. Slotted rotors are OK if you insist on them, drilled rotors ALWAYS prematurely crack around the holes. Drilled are a waste of money and the need for them is 15 to 20 years old.

Braided SST brake hoses are a definite pedal feel improvement, but they're not for everyone. I had them on my '84 and I have them on the Bronc-up, but there are limitations to them and I used OEM rubber on the 4rnnr. They do not recover from being pinched. If they get pinched or kinked they will need to be replaced right then. Pinching or kinking creases the liner and it will fail under pressure. They also don't deal with weld spatter very well. For the effort and cost involved compared to the small gain in pedal feel I am convinced that they are not for everyone. New rubber feels almost as good compared to old rubber as does braided. The only long term advantage that I see in braided SST hoses is if you need to make a field repair, and that assumes that you both carry the parts necessary and know how to make those assemblies, and this is not possible with ready-made crimped SST hoses.

 

[KLF]

I fail to understand why people insist on mixing and matching parts when the complete, known to work well together OEM set-up will bolt on.

My brakes are SIGNIFICANTLY better the the original OEM setup now, after building the system I have in place.

V6 dual-diaphragm booster ('94 Xtra cab)
1" Master cylinder ('94 Xtra cab)
Wilwood manual proportioning valve
Stainless hoses

Front:
'94 V6 4Runner front calipers (replaced last fall)
Hawk HPS ceramic front pads (new last fall)
'87 FJ60 front rotors (new last fall)

Rear:
Sky RDB brackets
'85 Monte Carlo calipers (new last fall)
'90 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton rotors (cut to fit over the rear axle flange)
All-Pro transfer case E-brake

It took awhile to get the Hawk pads bedded, but once they did, wow does this thing stop now.

 

[ntsqd]

Brakes are so subjective, can you quantify that? Compared to a stock live axle front brake, yeah I know how they fade easily. The vented rotor upgrade is a must on those. Here we're talking about an '87 so presumably it is an IFS truck with vented rotors already. Mixing and matching masters and calipers just makes for problems unless there is something unusual being done and you're willing to iterate the combo until you have a solution.

The V6 calipers are the same '88 - '91 (runner) & '94 (P'up). The 1" M/C results in less line pressure and a firmer pedal than the stock (for my '88) 15/16" M/C. Meaning that you have to push harder to get the same line pressure or clamping force at the calipers. I went thru this a lot on the 60 forum. Folks liked the heavier pedal of a larger bore M/C - which is fine if that's what they want, but could not or would not grasp that even though the pedal felt better the braking was less effective. See: Comments on brakes

The OP isn't talking about doing an RDB, so that part doesn't factor into the equation.

So, my suggestion is to buy all of the parts for the same application. Say that is an '88 4rnnr or P'up. The brakes will be better than the 4cyl stuff and with no hassle in making it all work like stock. It will bolt on to the OP's truck because it is stock parts for that generation of truck. And I will repeat what I've experienced, buy the OEM pads. I've found nothing that works as well as they do across the whole spectrum of use.

Were he wanting to do a late model Taco caliper swap then I'd be saying to buy the master for those calipers, see if the booster for the Taco can be made to work or will bolt to the firewall, and I don't know what to say about the rotors but presumably someone has figured that out.

 

[KLF]

Truthfully, I'm not sure the RDB setup was really worth it and made much of a difference. I already had the T-case e-brake from my '84 (RIP), so I figured I'd give it a try. It's kinda a hassle to deal with the custom-cut rotors.

But I have no doubt the front stuff made a HUGE difference. YMMV...

And I will repeat what I've experienced, buy the OEM pads. I've found nothing that works as well as they do across the whole spectrum of use.

LOL... not kidding, I just 5 minutes ago finished swapping all the pads on my 200-series to Hawk "Super Duty" pads. Like pretty much all the 200 owners, the factory brakes leave a lot to be desired. I'll bed these in, see how they feel. Next step will be stainless lines.

 

[txlonghorn]

I used the larger (as mentioned on the website link you posted) V6 booster from a 2nd gen 4runner and had to slightly clearance the booster to fit on my 85 4runner. There was interference with the steering shaft joint. I run the v6 booster, v6 master, larger v6 rear drums, stainless lines, and 231mm tundra oem calipers, rotors, and pads up front on my solid axle. I can lock up my 37s if I so desire.

 

[jgranthevagrant]

Is it possible some 22re trucks came with the v6 calipers? I've been looking at upgrading to the V6 calipers for a while, and I actually grabbed a pair at the wreckers the other day. Will save me a core charge. But looking at the v6 ones beside the ones on the truck; they look identical. I searched up the part numbers for both trucks on Toyota DIY and got the same part number. My truck is a 1990 22re. Canada version.

 

[KLF]

Yes, I believe at some point they just put the same calipers on all the trucks, I think 1990 was the first year. The key is the pistons, on the V6 calipers all the pistons are the same size, but on the earlier calipers 2 of the 4 pistons are smaller.

 

[84 yota dude]

Wow thanks for all the detailed replies! After reading this and thinking some more, I totally agree with @ntsqd. To be honest I was thinking of going with the fj80 master cylinder because it's the "best", but it is discontinued and quite expensive (I could only find if on fjparts.com). My new plan is to hit the junk yard and find a mid 90s 4runner or pickup and pull the booster, then buy a new master cylinder.
Another question I have is should I buy the calipers from the yard and rebuild them myself or just go with some napa remanufactured units? Anyone know about the quality of the parts they use on their remanufactured units? I would get the better option ones, but either way they could have cheap parts inside.
Lastly, do you think it would be worth it to buy new rubber brake lines? I like the stainless braided ones but like the durability factor of the rubber ones.
Thanks

 

[KLF]

I think this is a great plan, keep everything from the same generation.

I used to be all about rebuilding calipers, but I won't do it anymore. Can you still get the kits anymore? OTOH, do NOT buy cheap "lifetime guarantee" calipers from the usual places (AutoZone, etc.). I made that mistake on my front calipers from Advance Auto. A year later one of them seized up, I had to nurse the thing back home with a smoking front wheel. NAPA is generally good stuff.

They will not notice if you are trading in the older 4-cyl calipers as cores, at least I've never had a problem.

 

[txlonghorn]

Having recently rebuilt my own.. I would probably buy a reputable reman unit instead if I were to do it again. As was just mentioned, you typically get what you pay for so don't cheap out.

 

[ntsqd]

Typically the dust boots on the caliper pistons are a REAL SOB to get into place correctly. I buy rebuilts from my local brake parts specialty warehouse.

If the brake hoses don't look nearly brand new I'd replace them. I do so every time I replace the calipers unless they are SST and then they get inspected for any drama that has occurred to them since the last time I looked at them.

KLF: No idea about 200 series brakes. My comment about pads was specific to non-Taco era pick-ups and 4rnnrs.

 

[KLF]

Typically the dust boots on the caliper pistons are a REAL SOB to get into place correctly.

Yes! You think you have them in place, then BOING those round spring clamp things pop back off, and you get to start over. They must have some sort of jig when they re-man them?

KLF: No idea about 200 series brakes. My comment about pads was specific to non-Taco era pick-ups and 4rnnrs.

Understood. I usually go OEM pads, always do so in my cars. But I have been very impressed with these Hawk pads, I can definitely tell a difference now.

 

[84 yota dude]

Right on, thanks again. Where is a good place to buy remanufactured calipers from other than napa?

 

[ntsqd]

Depends on your location (hint, hint). In my area there is a brake and undercarriage parts wholesaler that also sells to the public. And if you're careful you can usually find a good brand on Rock Auto. I use them as a last resort though, I'd rather pay a little more to the local not big-box auto parts store and continue to have those knowledgeable counter guys around for when I'm really stuck than save a few pennies here and a couple dollars there.

 

[84 yota dude]

Hi again, back with a small update. I picked up a 1995 4runner dual diaphram booster and have vacuum checked it; looks to be operating fine. Talk about looking a lot more powerful than the single diapham booster on now!
Some questions I have for you guys are should I take off the boot? Looks like its filled with some dirt over the years. What grease is used, white lithium?

Thought it was ripped, but I think that's how it is.

Any other tips? I will get new gaskets too.
Thanks
Chris