1FZ life/rebuild Q's

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Cruiserhead05, Jul 17, 2005.

  1. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    First off...dont worry, this isnt the same old question of how long will my engine last..i just have a realtively simple question.

    I've got 250k miles on my 1FZ, i've run synthetic since 30k miles and have changed it at least every 5k, but truthfully, more often then that.

    The engine is still strong and really runs the same as it always has, its doesnt really show any signs of going soon.

    I'm just curious, i know i will rebuild at some point but my question is, is it bad the drive the engine until it totally dies or to rebuild sometime soon when the funds are available and when i will have a backup car for however long it takes?

    I'm asking b/c it was just a discussion that came up with my father and I, he tends to think with proper care it could go another 100k, and i dont argue that...i think it could as well but i also dont want to drive it til it Blows up and encounter bigger issues when i want to rebuild.

    Hope thats makes sense.

    BD
     
  2. MH_Stevens

    MH_Stevens

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    I believe the magic # is 300,000, so as all is fine plan on a rebuild at 300,000. You might also consider just selling this truck while it is in good nick, add the $3G you saved on the rebuilt engine and the $1G on the rebuilt tranny, and look for a '97. There are plenty around with 100,000 for around $14,000.
     
  3. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    Drive it until it dies. My rig was driving like a dream until it wasn't. You won't get any warnings.
     
  4. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    alright. im not totally sure i would ever want to sell it though. i mean we've owned it since 30k...i know everything about the truck. i mean if i rebuild the engine/tranny and turbo it would be awesome and be set for another 200k. plus ive already done the lift, bumper, etc.
     
  5. MLX450

    MLX450

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    Thats right! KEEP IT :D
     
  6. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    Yea i cant totally justify spending 15k or so on a totally stock rig with 100k miles or something. Guess i'll just drive it until it dies, then consider the options. rebuild it, drive it for a year, then turbo maybe..it would be nice.
     
  7. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    If you want to keep it long haul I would say it is best to rebuild it before it fails, an engine taken out of service before it fails will only need a minimum of machine work and “consumable” parts. If you let it fail you will be buying more parts and labor

    If you let a bearing go you will need at least a polish on the crank and most likely at least one connecting rod, I don’t know if the bores could make it 250K with no major wear but maybe, if the bores need work you will be buying new pistons.

    Turbine engines are worked this way (and aircraft parts in general) not only is it safer to take an engine out of service before it fails it is Much cheaper in the long run. Most are scheduled on hours of operation. Some on condition of a problem area that is inspected on a schedule. Others on measurable performance like EPR (engine pressure ratio)

    The problem is deciding when to do this preemptive rebuild. To early is inefficient use of your time and money. Too late and it gets expensive but you got the full life out of the engine. it is hard to predict when it will fail before hand (impossible?) Toyota gave a guide line of 300K, an engine that has had poor maintenance will not make 300K, and one that has may go well beyond 300K.

    Do an oil analysis and a compression check. Pop the valve cover off and check for sludge, try to get a general idea of its health. If it seams good drive it, when it gets tired or shows high wear metals do the rebuild.
     
  8. MH_Stevens

    MH_Stevens

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    RavenTai: Please what is and who does oil analysis?
     
  9. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    Raven, year nicely put and an extremely complete answer. Right now i am really in no position to rebuild(Time/money), plus i dont think it needs it yet. Its still running very strong. Next time i have it in somewhere i may have them run a compression test. Just curious, what would a comp test on the 1fz cost me?
     
  10. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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  11. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    It will cost you the price of a compression tester; if you can change spark plugs you can check the compression,

    When I bought my LX I had it checked out by a local dealer as I did not think the seller would like me tearing into it in her driveway, she was quite OK with me driving it to a dealer. Well turns out compression results vary widely between testers so having your own to make future checks comparable.

    https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=47917


    Maybe I should have asked this before posting the above, are you capable and sufficiently tooled to pull the engine, do the teardown and reassembly and only sub out needed machine shop work? If you are paying someone else to do all of this then the rebuild gets more expensive and changes things, defiantly wait until it needs it and then it still may not be worth it.
     
  12. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    Raven thanks for all the links. AS much as i'd like to say im qualified to do the rebuild. i dont think i am, and dont really have all the needed tools. Plus, come august i'll be a full time college student so time is limited. I think when it goes, i will be having someone else who is better qualified to rebuild it. I would seriously consider a used one from someone like James at cruiserpart.net(i think 1600 for a block with 80k) but i really really have my heart set on a S/Cer or a Turbo is available a few years down the road so i figured a clean rebuild would be a better candidate for a power-up such as one of those....
    Correct me if im wrong better i have pretty much planned to spend 5k on a complete rebuild when the 1fz does die.
     
  13. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    Raven,

    I checked out blackstones site. pretty cool. So what would you suggest? I may order the free test kit and send them some oil after 3k miles of running it(just changed it today) and also do a compression test sometime soon.
    Im very curious to see what a 250k mile 1FZ, that has always had synthetic has to show.
     
  14. IBCRUSN

    IBCRUSN

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    sorry for the length

    B,

    As Raven has mentioned oil analysis is probably the cheapest and least invasive means to keep track of your engine. I have used this service on a few of my personal vehicles and all the aircraft I babysit have regular samples taken. I would add that once you start at "x" interval continue with that interval +/- small amount until you O/H your engine. I wouldn't make a rash decisions based on your first sample unless you see part numbers. Once you have 3 or so you will start to see a trend and that's what you want to pay attention to. Also unless you are driving in the Sahara in sand storms you should be able to extend your changes to 5k or so depending on the oil.

    Just a for instance...
    I once had a chevy truck that I purchased new and changed over to synthetic and a bypass filter system at 5k miles. I took oil samples in the begining at 5k intervals. After 20k I changed to 10k intervals because the oil was well within all specs. Oh, I should also mention that with the exception of one incident I didn't have to change the oil for almost 40k miles. At any rate all of the samples combined to form a trend that a service can or overhaul schedule can be developed for. Just for giggles before I sold the truck with 85k on it I borescoped one cylinder on each bank and I was surprised that there was no carbon or noticable wear in the cylinders, kind of a testimate to sythetic oils.

    Oh, one last bit. I used Caterpillar for my analysis. They are all over and the price was reasonable ($12). Just be sure that whatever company you choose has a clean oil sample to use as a baseline. In the case of my truck the first analysis was based off of a 15w-50 rotella oil. Once they had a clean sample all the specs fell into place.

    Here is some info from shell. IMHO they have a great tech section on their site. Mind you this is aviation piston engine info but much of it relates. Trust me, pilots/aircraft owners of piston aircraft still don't know very much about oil despite several oil companies making vast amounts if info available. :D

    www.shell.com

    www.shell.com/aviation/faq

    good luck,
    Kris
     
  15. lagwagon

    lagwagon

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    Mine has over 200k and doesn't use oil. No more than a tune up done. Nobody has mentioned a leak down test. This takes a couple of hours sometimes, but will tell you if your intake or exhaust valves or rings are leaking. It lets you know what to focus on before you rebuild.
     
  16. IBCRUSN

    IBCRUSN

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    lag brings up an excellent point about doing a leakdown test otherwise known as a differential compression test. If you can find an adapter that will fit in the sparkplug tube I say go for it. For the time it would take you will get your time and $$ worth. If anyone is interested try Aircraft Spruce for a tester. They aren't the cheapest but they are pretty good to deal with.

    Aircraft Spruce

    Sorry for dragging this slightly off topic, it sort of relates to assessing the status of your engine.

    cheers
     
  17. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    Well tools can be bought and skills/methods can be learned but if you don’t think you are up to it then it would be best not to get in over your head. I see where you are going with the forced induction on an older motor, Can you live with naturally aspirated? Although having more power would be very nice, considering the cost and possible problems you have to wonder if it is worth it.

    I cannot help you on the price of a rebuild I have not done it yet, there was a thread with estimates on cost. It would be variable depending on how much needs to be done and how much you are charged for labor. Might be a good question for Dan,


    I would go your normal 5K and send in a sample, I also change mine arround 5K and Mobil 1 is capable of longer than this in a 1fz, Cary had a great result @ 8K miles.

    I am also very curious how a 250K M1 motor is doing, I have been around a 100+K M1 motor, it was running wonderfully witch is no ringing endorsement as Dino can do that, what was interesting is the inside of the valve cover was spotless, not only no sludge but not a bit of varnish to bee seen on top of the head. Everything was bright and shinny inside like it was made yesterday.

    :idea: Don’t you need to check you valve clearance? Take pictures of the head wile your under there the valve cover ;) checking the valves is a :banana: job if they need adjusting maybe a :banana: :banana: job.
     
  18. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    Thanks for the link, Aircraft spruce is in the nest town over. I have been considering building my own out of my compression tester but that one looks nice, will a 1fz roll over when doing differential compression test? I have never done one but Had a kid in school get smacked in the head with a prop doing one, cut and bruised him pretty good.

    IIRC 14mm is the adapter we need.
     
  19. Cruiserhead05

    Cruiserhead05

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    Raven,

    I have read most, if not all the threads on the 1FZ rbuild. As you stated, depending on exactly what you do i think it would run 4-6k, though i could just pick up a used 1fz for under 2k but i'd rather not. As far as forced induction goes.....i dont really know awhole lot about it, i know it will cause quicker wear and make the cruiser faster, thats basically all i know....and it will run about the same price as the rebuild. I just know that those who have the extra 100hp or so just love it and the thought is really nice. i have also thought of boring the block out bigger, which is also an option. I guess if i just start thinking about all this now i will have a good game plan when the time smacks me right in the face.

    BD
     
  20. IBCRUSN

    IBCRUSN

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    No worries.

    If you leave out the other five plugs it will probably spin a little. I know it would be a PITA but I would reinstall or leave in the plugs in the other cyls. In an ideal world if you were able to have the piston dead nuts on TDC it wouldn't rotate. If you choose not to reinstall five plugs use a breaker bar and hold on tight, just in case. Ok, one last thing, use 80 psi for your tests. Set one gauge to 80 and read the other (for example 72). If you have below 65 you have issues. Intake and ring leaks will be easy to hear, exh valves will be a pain since the exh. system is so long.

    As far as getting smacked by the prop, yes it can be a problem if you don't respect how much the prop can kick. I haven't been hit and have no intention of ever being hit. If you do end up doing one (this also applies to any engine) get the piston up to TDC, install fitting and stand back with A/C and dial up ~25 psi. Use the prop (breaker bar) and rock it so you can feel top ctr (your feel it slightly) get it TDC, step back and dial it all the way up 80, take your reading and your done. Easy, peasy, japaneasy.

    cheers
     
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