1997 80-series Horrific cold start noises (1 Viewer)

[TX FJ80]

This is a new development and I am very frustrated at the moment.

Went out to move the ol’ girl off the street last night and heard this “death rattle” for the first time.

Give it to me straight - I want this fixed, permanently, done right and never to be dealt with again - what is causing this and what is it going to cost me?

 

[Kernal]

Does the noise change if you turn the steering wheel left/right with the engine running? Have you done any work recently on the power steering (change fluid, new pump)??

 

[Bludozer]

PS pump whine no question. Check the fluid. Or if you're a retard like me, just open up Joey's website and order a new one.

 

[TX FJ80]

Does the noise change if you turn the steering wheel left/right with the engine running? Have you done any work recently on the power steering (change fluid, new pump)??

Thanks for the quick reply. I have done no work on the PS system recently and I don’t think it has ever been seriously gone through. My reservoir leaks/seeps a little, and the steering box has a nice thin coat of oil on it, which I must now assume is PS fluid.

I checked the fluid level and it was low, but not bone dry either. I added 2-3 ounces tops of Lucas D3 compatible ATF to bring the fluid level up, but decided to do a hot check tomorrow on level ground.

I did very quickly open the PS cap with the engine idling and the fluid inside looks black. Could it be PS fluid and not ATF?

All around the PS pump area it is bone dry, and the engine oil level isn’t elevated. I read about their input shaft seals failing and mixing PS fluid with the crankcase oil.

I also read about doing a flush and using Mobil DTE 24 instead of ATF.

After I posted, I started digging and found it was likely related to the PS system I have already been exploring rabbit holes to go down.

I would love to have some guidance from the people who have “been there done that.”

 

[jonheld]

I did very quickly open the PS cap with the engine idling and the fluid inside looks black. Could it be PS fluid and not ATF?

Generic PS fluid is clear and ATF is red, so black is the wrong color regardless. Start with a good flush of the PS system with clean ATF and go from there.

 

[KC masterpiece]

What do you consider a cold start? My pump is very angry below 0F and sounds like that but wakes up in a few minutes. I would just run it if it's only an issue in extreme cold.

 

[onesix6]

@TX FJ80 That's your power steering pump.

My 80 made the same noise and after replacing the power steering pump it's quiet. As others have mentioned, start with a flush with ATF and go from there, but if the pump is bad it's just a band aid.

I see that you're in Dallas. I had Mayo Automotive replace the pump and associated hoses. $600 total for parts & labor.

 

[TX FJ80]

Generic PS fluid is clear and ATF is red, so black is the wrong color regardless. Start with a good flush of the PS system with clean ATF and go from there.

Good point. I added some more Lucas ATF this morning, not that there was any on the ground, just thought I might not have filled it all the way in the dark.

After adding a little more fluid, the startup sound seemed to be less severe a few hours later.

So before changing the pump, I think a flush, some new LP hoses, and a fill with the proper fluid is the best next step, as you suggested.

Thanks @jonheld !

 

[TX FJ80]

@TX FJ80 That's your power steering pump.

My 80 made the same noise and after replacing the power steering pump it's quiet. As others have mentioned, start with a flush with ATF and go from there, but if the pump is bad it's just a band aid.

I see that you're in Dallas. I had Mayo Automotive replace the pump and associated hoses. $600 total for parts & labor.

That's a heck of a deal! The drive to Lewisville is a little bit of trek though.

 

[jonheld]

Good point. I added some more Lucas ATF this morning, not that there was any on the ground, just thought I might not have filled it all the way in the dark.

After adding a little more fluid, the startup sound seemed to be less severe a few hours later.

So before changing the pump, I think a flush, some new LP hoses, and a fill with the proper fluid is the best next step, as you suggested.

Thanks @jonheld !

Keep in mind that you will see many posts on this forum containing elaborate methods for bleeding air out of the PS system. I have replaced every part of the PS system on multiple 80s and I never had to put the truck on jackstands, never had to cycle steering 100 times, never had to sacrifice a live chicken.

The fastest and easiest thing to do once all the parts have been replaced and hoses secured; fill the reservoir to the top. Put the cap back on or you'll make a mess. Briefly start the engine for a second, or simply crank over the starter with the EFI relay pulled. Shut down. Fill the reservoir. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Once the fluid level remains stable in the reservoir, you should be able to leave the engine running and turn the wheels left and right 2 or 3 times. Check the fluid level. Fill as needed. Go for a drive. Check fluid level. Once the level is stable at the HOT mark, you're done.

During the initial fill, the PS pump will cavitate and sound bad which is why you shut down the motor after a second or don't even start it at all. The PS system self bleeds and any trapped air will find its way back to the reservoir.

 

[onesix6]

That's a heck of a deal! The drive to Lewisville is a little bit of trek though.

Agreed. On both counts. Not sure where you are in Dallas (I'm near White Rock Lake) and it's a trek. Nonetheless, Ahmad and his crew are worth the trip.

 

[TX FJ80]

Agreed. On both counts. Not sure where you are in Dallas (I'm near White Rock Lake) and it's a trek. Nonetheless, Ahmad and his crew are worth the trip.

I used to live in Merriman Park (Skillman/Audelia), but we moved to Central Plano (I know) in Summer 2018. We tried to buy down there for almost 2 years before realizing we couldn't save fast enough to outpace real estate prices...so here we are. It's not *that* bad, but I do miss WRL a bunch though. Before we moved I ran marathons and cycled a ton, etc. but I moved up here and injured my knee while rehabbing this house, and then re-injured my shoulder while recovering from the knee thing.

 

[onesix6]

I used to live in Merriman Park (Skillman/Audelia), but we moved to Central Plano (I know) in Summer 2018. We tried to buy down there for almost 2 years before realizing we couldn't save fast enough to outpace real estate prices...so here we are. It's not *that* bad, but I do miss WRL a bunch though. Before we moved I ran marathons and cycled a ton, etc. but I moved up here and injured my knee while rehabbing this house, and then re-injured my shoulder while recovering from the knee thing.

Ah, that is a neat neighborhood. If you ever come down this way, let me know... would be good to meet up! Good luck w/ the power steering fix.

 

[TX FJ80]

Keep in mind that you will see many posts on this forum containing elaborate methods for bleeding air out of the PS system. I have replaced every part of the PS system on multiple 80s and I never had to put the truck on jackstands, never had to cycle steering 100 times, never had to sacrifice a live chicken.

The fastest and easiest thing to do once all the parts have been replaced and hoses secured; fill the reservoir to the top. Put the cap back on or you'll make a mess. Briefly start the engine for a second, or simply crank over the starter with the EFI relay pulled. Shut down. Fill the reservoir. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Once the fluid level remains stable in the reservoir, you should be able to leave the engine running and turn the wheels left and right 2 or 3 times. Check the fluid level. Fill as needed. Go for a drive. Check fluid level. Once the level is stable at the HOT mark, you're done.

During the initial fill, the PS pump will cavitate and sound bad which is why you shut down the motor after a second or don't even start it at all. The PS system self bleeds and any trapped air will find its way back to the reservoir.

Lololol...there was some very similar tribal voodoo around the Volvo PS system that I also ignored and still achieved success.

Your method is exactly how I had envisioned doing this. Pulling the EFI relay/fuse is a good method of which I am surprised more people don't take advantage. You spin the engine as fast and as much as the starter will go, without risk of it revving to the moon and sucking something dry.

 

[TX FJ80]

Ah, that is a neat neighborhood. If you ever come down this way, let me know... would be good to meet up! Good luck w/ the power steering fix.

We should absolutely meet up sometime - I see a lot of Cruisers in/around DFW, but is there a club or an LC scene in general around here?

 

[jonheld]

Lololol...there was some very similar tribal voodoo around the Volvo PS system that I also ignored and still achieved success.

Your method is exactly how I had envisioned doing this. Pulling the EFI relay/fuse is a good method of which I am surprised more people don't take advantage. You spin the engine as fast and as much as the starter will go, without risk of it revving to the moon and sucking something dry.

Exactly. Let the pump do what the pump is supposed to do without frothing up the fluid.
And the chickens live another day...