Builds Build: 1994 Project - "Spring" (1 Viewer)

[MTrun]

**UPDATE JAN 2023 -- Turning this into a BUILD thread for Spring**

This is Spring -- a well 'loved' rust free 80 series with plenty of leaks and engine noise I picked up a couple months ago as a fall/winter project. Her name is fitting as I expect her to be ready by spring...2025 or so .

I started baselining by replacing all fluids, fixed the brakes, lights, windows, turn signal electrical issue and addressing all the immediate issues to make it safely drivable. From there I dove into the deeper mechanical as well as fun & simple fixes like belt trim, sunroof, steering wheel cover and more. The build process follows later in this thread, but starts with the effort identify and address a tick or knock in the original engine.

 

[MTrun]

I love everything about the build so far: lift, front and rear bumpers, I don't even mind the aged paint that almost gives it a patina look. This isn't a 1% BaT vehicle and I won't cry if I scratch it. BUT...the real elephant in the room unfortunately is a clear ticking or knock at idle once the engine warms up.

There are a number of threads on engine knocks and ticks I have read through. I will attempt to document what I discover here in case it helps anyone else.

I took it to the shop, they did an inspection, checked a number of places and think it sounds like it could be rod knock, but I definitely want to run down all the other options before tearing into the engine. It has 245,000 miles on the clock but this is the sound:

Video of ticking/knocking:
Engine Sound

 

[MTrun]

Tick/knock is being transmitted through the manifold where I found loose studs and a missing nut. Unfortunately after tightening those down, while the manifold did not make as much noise the tick/knock remained.

The main culprit does in fact sound like it is coming from the rear of the block where the head meets the short block - with the stethoscope roughly where the red arrow points it is the loudest. There is a fair amount of oil on the back passenger side of the engine on the upper part of the bock that I believe is from the valve cover gasket.

 

[MTrun]

My next step from what I have read so far may be to pull individual spark plug wires to see if it changes the sound, as well as maybe a Blackstone sample?

 

[NLXTACY]

Harbor freight has a $7 mechanic’s stethoscope. I hate to admit that thing has been crazy handy.

 

[MTrun]

Harbor freight has a $7 mechanic’s stethoscope. I hate to admit that thing has been crazy handy.

Thanks for the tip! Kids got it for me for Christmas, love it and updated the vehicle insight above with feedback from the stethoscope (vs screwdriver).

 

[MTrun]

Latest update. Weeks of probing with the mechanics stethoscope has been insightful (thanks Joey!) But still can't find that source I am looking for. Blackstone results came in today. While it was a low mileage sample, they see no sign of lead from a bearing. Not sure what the copper in the results is from yet.

 

[MTrun]

My next step is to rebuild the power steering pump which is leaking badly anyway to try to rule that one out.

 

[MTrun]

To catch up on other trouble shooting paths based on what I have read in the forums so far I have already tried the following:

- Took the vehicle to OTRAMM who checked the flex plate, and thought it sounded like rod knock, but couldn't definitively ID the source -- got a quote for a rebuild and new short block $$$
- Watched the YouTube series on the Land Cruiser with rod knock Land Cruiser Rod Knock investigation - Youtube
- Tried pulling individual plugs to listen for a change -- none noticed
- Ran the Blackstone labs oil test -> did not believe wear was the problem due to the absence of lead
- Tried changing oil weight -- no noticeable change

Next steps:
- Pulling the power steering pump now to check the gear, and rebuild to fix leaks while it is out
- Also saw this thread Engine swap - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/engine-swap.827519/ where another Mud member traced a suspected knock to the power steering gearbox check valve (post #8). Not sure how to check that one??? But may be worth looking at?

 

[MTrun]

Next step complete: took out the power steering pump and ran the engine for a couple minutes. The engine was not warm enough to audibly hear the knock at idle, but with the mechanics stethoscope I could still pick the ticking up lightly resonating through the middle of the block. Rebuilt PS pump while it was out to fix the leaks that was long overdue.

 

[BILT4ME]

Next step complete: took out the power steering pump and ran the engine for a couple minutes. The engine was not warm enough to audibly hear the knock at idle, but with the mechanics stethoscope I could still pick the ticking up lightly resonating through the middle of the block. Rebuilt PS pump while it was out to fix the leaks that was long overdue.

View attachment 2912867

If you still have the PS pump out, be sure to either epoxy in the rear plug or pick up the Wits' End plug field repair kit. The O-ring on that plug is not in the kit and it is not "serviceable"

 

[Oneops]

I’m starting on this with mine this weekend. Goodtimes!
This the start of build thread for yours!?

 

[MTrun]

If you still have the PS pump out, be sure to either epoxy in the rear plug or pick up the Wits' End plug field repair kit. The O-ring on that plug is not in the kit and it is not "serviceable"

BILT4ME - I had seen the emergebcy plug on Wits end but had not fully realized what was going on there. Will JB Weld it tonight before it goes in - thx!

 

[Irish Reiver]

@MTrun if the noise is coming from the steering pump then chances are the gear has a damaged tooth. I replaced the pump on my '96 due to a leaking rear plug mentioned above by @BILT4ME. Mine had no noise before i changed it but had a loud tick afterwards. I was real careful when I pulled the gear and there was no visible scrapes or chips on the teeth but the noise only went away after I fitted a new steering gear.

 

[MTrun]

I’m starting on this with mine this weekend. Goodtimes!
This the start of build thread for yours!?

Hopefully! Still have to sort out this tick or knock though before I go crazy. Good luck on yours this weekend - the PS pump rebuild took a little longer than I expected but was a fun job, pausing when I didn't have the right tool to install the bearing or re-torque the gear. Doing it over a couple days was a good pace for me.

 

[MTrun]

@MTrun if the noise is coming from the steering pump then chances are the gear has a damaged tooth. I replaced the pump on my '96 due to a leaking rear plug mentioned above by @BILT4ME. Mine had no noise before i changed it but had a loud tick afterwards. I was real careful when I pulled the gear and there was no visible scrapes or chips on the teeth but the noise only went away after I fitted a new steering gear.

Thanks for the tip Irish Reiver. Unfortunately I don't think the noise is from the pump, but wanted to give it a shot. Tick/knock can be heard from the block, manifold and oil pan, but I am trying to exhaust the other 'easy stuff' first before accepting it as rod knock.

 

[MTrun]

Epoxying the rear expansion plug

 

[MTrun]

Ok -- rebuilt power steering pump was reinstalled, low pressure lines replaced, new gasket and then I jacked up the front end and followed advice here to fill the system with actual FSM recommended fluid this time (NOT power steering fluid like was in there previously). A week later - no leaks and the groan is gone! Unfortunately the engine tick is not, which was not a huge surprise, but this was a long overdue job anyway

 

[MTrun]

This week I sat down to define next steps in trouble shooting. I did a lot more internet searching, met a GREAT resource at the auto parts store who has worked rebuilding 1FZ's before who listened to engine & smelled the exhaust who thinks I have a dead cylinder and at long last I went to where I should have started -- took a long hard look at the troubleshooting matrix in the FSM. It was time to move from swapping parts to more methodical trouble shooting. Next up was to pulling the plugs and perform a compression test.

 

[MTrun]

Compression test results:

6- 175psi
5- 166
4- 140*
3- 169
2- 174
1- 166

Looks like there is something going on with #4 as it was abnormally low compared to the others. Per the FSM, I poured a little oil into #4 and re-ran the test twice to see if that boosted compression to rule out the rings. It came back at 142 at the highest, second time still at 140. Sounds like I can say it is not piston rings or bore damage. I may scope the inside to double check.

Going back to the comments from the guy who has rebuilt these before, he thought the cylinder was not firing correctly and that was the audible tick/knock as well as the rich fuel smell in the exhaust. Back to the FSM to determine next steps...