1985 FJ60 with stock 2F motor. Need help with motor. Hard start whether cold or warm. (1 Viewer)

[WABISABIFJ60]

To Anyone who can help,

My name is Alex and I own a 1985 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 with a stock 2F motor with a factory 5 speed transmission with @192K miles. I absolutely love this vehicle and have taken her on some local camping trips with my family in the hopes of even more trips in the future. I purchased her in March of 2019 and ran flawlessly up until recently (within the last few months) she began to show some signs of something going south. First were the hard starts where I would start her up, then the brake and seatbelt lights would intermittently flash all the while I was keeping the engine running by feathering the gas pedal, then after about 30 seconds to a minute, suddenly the lights would stop flashing and then she would idle fine. This would happen no matter if it was the first start in the morning or whether the motor was warmed up. She also started to have more of a pronounced exhaust leak. I recently had the exhaust leak fixed and had all the vacuum hoses replaced. She ran flawlessly from where I picked her up in San Jose, to my home in Hayward, CA. The next morning, I started her up and she would do her hard start again with the brake light and seatbelt lights flickering until after a few seconds they would stop flickering and then she would idle fine. Now this could be unrelated and can totally coincidental, but it just what I observe when going through start up. I decided to run a "quick" errand to Target then as I drove into the parking lot, that's when she lost power and stalled out. I managed to get her started and then she seemed to run pretty rough to where she would lurch in first and second pretty violently like she was running out of gas. I had filled her tank up the day before.

My gut is telling me it has something to do with the carburetor. Not being a mechanic myself, it is merely a guess on my part. I have been dealing with this for the past few months now and have gotten to the point where I don't feel confident enough driving her much less with my family. I don't want to give up on her just yet as I feel like it could be something as easy as a rebuilt carb, but again, this is only a guess on my part.

I am reaching out to anyone who knows of a mechanic that specializes in these vehicles and may know what is wrong based on my descriptions (I realize this is a long shot on my part) or knows how to rebuild these carburetors. I am hoping that someone has gone through the same predicament and could offer up some answers or at the very least point me in the right direction to get some help.

I hope this finds everyone healthy and safe during these very weird times!

Thanks in advance on any help.

best regards,
-Alex

 

[Seth S]

Start with the easy stuff. When was the last time you replaced the fuel filter. Air filter. Spark plugs. Plug wires. Cap. Rotor.

 

[OSS]

Yes- first give it a basic tune-up. Follow the steps in order in the 2F manual. If the problem persists, the carburetor is highly suspect. At this point in the game, everyone who owns one of these cruisers should own two carburetors: the one installed on the engine and a rebuilt one ready to swap in- sitting on a shelf.
If your cruiser is your only car it's going to be hard to get your carburetor rebuilt in a timely manner. There's very few guys that do it. It usually takes over a month.
Buy a 2nd carburetor- even if that might not be the problem. You can use it to rule out yours.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

Start with the easy stuff. When was the last time you replaced the fuel filter. Air filter. Spark plugs. Plug wires. Cap. Rotor.

Hello Seth and OSS,

Thank you both for reaching out! I have been looking at this as a whole and need to step back and re-look at it in a smaller pieces as it can become overwhelming. Air filter, spark plugs, plug wires have all been replaced. Will look into the Cap and rotor and fuel filter. Just out of interest, do FJ60's come with an Ignition Control Module? I had a person say that this might be going bad as well.

BTW, my other car is a 1968 VW square back. Luckily I can still drive this while I work on my Cruiser. The VW was broken into about a month ago and they stole all my tools. Aholes, the lot of them! Had to hunt down a wing window glass to replace!

Anyways, Thanks again for you both and I'll keep you posted!

best,
-Alex

 

[Seth S]

your Fj60 is likely on par with your VW as far as being mechanical and basic. No ICM that you are referring to but there is the ignitor which could be thought of like an ICM though I'm not sure if it operates the same. But basically we know you get up and running so we know you have fuel and spark.

When the problem shows itself you could try shutting of the truck and taking off the fuel filler cap and see if there is a big rush of air. Your description sounds like a vacuum leak but I cant think of anything off the top of my head that would be intermittent like that.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

your Fj60 is likely on par with your VW as far as being mechanical and basic. No ICM that you are referring to but there is the ignitor which could be thought of like an ICM though I'm not sure if it operates the same. But basically we know you get up and running so we know you have fuel and spark.

View attachment 2262659

When the problem shows itself you could try shutting of the truck and taking off the fuel filler cap and see if there is a big rush of air. Your description sounds like a vacuum leak but I cant think of anything off the top of my head that would be intermittent like that.

There is definitely a rush of air when I take off the fuel cap. Its always been like that, even when she was running great. However, I never checked to see if it was a "sucking sound" or more of a "pressure release" sound. I am leaning towards the latter. I've also heard 2 sides: either having the fuel cap ventilated or not. Not sure what is the correct state.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

Hello All,

I managed to make a video of what happens when I start her. This happens whether the car is warmed up or cold. This video is when she is warmed up already. I hope there is something in the video that is glaringly obvious to someone out there!

Actually, I have been having difficulty uploading here, but I could email if anyone is interested in seeing. Unless someone knows of how to upload a video here.

 

[Cruzerman]

BTW, my other car is a 1968 VW square back.

Funny that your VW runs but the cruiser doesn't. My roommate, sister, and girlfriend all had squarebacks in the early 80s. They were all very unreliable, unlike my bug. Good luck with the cruiser. From my experience, I would want a spare running rig with a squareback.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

Funny that your VW runs but the cruiser doesn't. My roommate, sister, and girlfriend all had squarebacks in the early 80s. They were all very unreliable, unlike my bug. Good luck with the cruiser. From my experience, I would want a spare running rig with a squareback.

Fortunately my VW's have all been pretty reliable. I've had quite a few over the years. A 56 oval, 66 bug, 71 riviera camper bus, and this 68 SB. I have owned mostly German made autos, but I've always wanted a Land Cruiser and I'm surprised that I'm having so many issues with all of the great reliable history I've read about these vehicles. Even though these past few months have been a bit frustrating, I'm not about to give up on this one. It has to be something I'm just not seeing yet. I've been reading other people's issues throughout this forum and how they were able to figure it out... I just have to find the answer somewhere in these forums.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, How are your fuseable links at the battery connection? Mike

 

[g-man]

some random thoughts...
did your ignition warning light flicker as well as the brake light? This is usually a problem between the battery and the ignition including grounds, battery cable connections, fusible links at the positive of the battery terminal, the white wire going to the alternator. Check for loose wires and connections, also corrosion.

Another thought... the carb has a fuel cut solenoid. if it stops working at any point while driving the motor if at low rpms will want to stall (you'd have to continue feathering the accelerator pedal as you describe to keep it running) and acceleration will act less responsive at highway speeds. You will experience hard starts..start and stall etc too. You can check it for operations simply by listening for the "click" when you turn the key on.

there is a green connector plug that connects the wiring on this at the carb. Check for a good connection there.

 

[g-man]

the fuel cut solenoid is pictured in the top left image..

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

some random thoughts...
did your ignition warning light flicker as well as the brake light? This is usually a problem between the battery and the ignition including grounds, battery cable connections, fusible links at the positive of the battery terminal, the white wire going to the alternator. Check for loose wires and connections, also corrosion.

Another thought... the carb has a fuel cut solenoid. if it stops working at any point while driving the motor if at low rpms will want to stall (you'd have to continue feathering the accelerator pedal as you describe to keep it running) and acceleration will act less responsive at highway speeds. You will experience hard starts..start and stall etc too. You can check it for operations simply by listening for the "click" when you turn the key on.

there is a green connector plug that connects the wiring on this at the carb. Check for a good connection there.

Hello Gman,

When this hard start first began happening, I purchased a new Fusible link and installed with no success. I also checked the wires to the alternator for any loose or bad connections, which there were, but I fixed. BUT I didn't check all of the grounds to make sure that all of them are tight with a good clean connection. I will check and see if there is any improvement.

I also checked the Fuel solenoid as well and found that it does function (by the clicking sound). But would this still have a break in the wires internally that would fail during operation? I came across this "fix" that would guarantee that there was a proper ground which I was going to try. See attached image.

What I would love to do is send you the video to have you see and hear what's going on because once I start the motor, the seatbelt light starts to flicker, about 30sec to a minute goes by, then I actually hear an audible "click" when the motor finally clears and runs an a healthy idle. It's really quite odd.

But for now, I'm going to focus on making sure all the grounds are properly attached, hopefully once the weather is a bit more dryer in the next couple of days.

 

[g-man]

not sure where the seat belt grounds but when I ever had an electrical problem starting the brake and ign warning lights flickered or came on. the ign warning will come on anytime below 12v and if more warning lights are coming on the electrical issue may involve more than one circuit. If you have downloaded the 86-90 body and chassis manual there are electrical schematics at the back.

You can post videos here on this thread. That way more people can see and give some input.

 

[g-man]

The grounds to check are 1. at the inner fender near the negative battery post, 2. At the firewall ..find the wire coming off the cylinder head on the passenger side.
3. At the starter to frame...although that one obviously is working as your starter is turning. 4. under the a/c on the bracket not sure what purpose this one serves (possibly and engine ground) but is a pain to get to and is usually pretty greasy.

this sounds simple but have someone shake or move or twist your wiring around when the warning lights are flickering to see if it makes it better or worse. Could be a weak wire inside the insulation or help you find a bad connections. move the wires at the fusible links on either side of the link, the white wire going to the alt, the heavy wires coming off the battery to ground and starter, also the wiring looms that go to the ignition, the ignition wires at the column and behind the ignition switch, the wires behind the fuse box and going to and from the relays under the drivers side dash above the kick panel. If the rough running is always associated with the warning lights flickering then I would assume an electrical issue.

Everybody blames the carb first but I've found electrical issues and one time a clogged egr that caused stalls and hard starts.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

The grounds to check are 1. at the inner fender near the negative battery post, 2. At the firewall ..find the wire coming off the cylinder head on the passenger side.
3. At the starter to frame...although that one obviously is working as your starter is turning. 4. under the a/c on the bracket not sure what purpose this one serves (possibly and engine ground) but is a pain to get to and is usually pretty greasy.

this sounds simple but have someone shake or move or twist your wiring around when the warning lights are flickering to see if it makes it better or worse. Could be a weak wire inside the insulation or help you find a bad connections. move the wires at the fusible links on either side of the link, the white wire going to the alt, the heavy wires coming off the battery to ground and starter, also the wiring looms that go to the ignition, the ignition wires at the column and behind the ignition switch, the wires behind the fuse box and going to and from the relays under the drivers side dash above the kick panel. If the rough running is always associated with the warning lights flickering then I would assume an electrical issue.

Everybody blames the carb first but I've found electrical issues and one time a clogged egr that caused stalls and hard starts.

Awesome amount of info Gman! Thanks a ton! This is extremely helpful! I will tackle each one by one so I can sleep better at night.

BTW, I tried adding a video, but it was too large of a file, even when I compressed it reduced its length and resolution. Still too big!

 

[g-man]

try loading it up on you-tube then copy and paste it here.

 

[WABISABIFJ60]

try loading it up on you-tube then copy and paste it here.

Hello G-man,

Please see youtube link



I checked all the grounds and they are all solid.

 

[Seth S]

Not that the factory voltmeter is the greatest gage but yours says to me your alternator isn’t charging. Can you take a picture of your instrument cluster with the key on but the engine off?

 

[g-man]

The seatbelt warning light is powered by wiring coming off the ignition switch. Re check the white wire coming off the fusible links going to the alternator. check the fusible links again, and check the wires from alternator to ignition switch.

Note that power to the seatbelt warning light and relay would be downstream of the igniton and would have no affect on the ignition switch or motor but is an indication that the ignition is not getting the 12v it needs. Look at the schematics on 84-90 body and chassis fsm at the back pg 715, 717.

Also the hiccups caused by an engine wanting to stall (ie could be anything or not related to electrical) could be sending little to no voltage to the ignition on a momentary basis causing the light to flicker.

The fact that the motor isn't idling could be a vacuum leak or lack of fuel. Listen for vacuum leaks around the carb. Spray carb cleaner around the base of the carb and around the intake where it connects to the cylinder head (do this before things get too warm). Make sure the fuel is 1/2 in the carb window. do this by looking with a flash light and shaking the truck to see the fuel move. Take off the top of the air cleaner and look down the carb and actuate the linkage on the back of the carb by hand to insure that a good squirt of fuel is going down the venturi.

Check for spark at each plug wire. Do this by removing the plug wire and put a screwdriver into the end of it. (should be many youtube videos on this) Turn the motor (but dont start it) and watch for spark to jump to ground on top of the motor . Hold it about 1/8th and inch from ground .. do this with low light conditions so you can see spark. obviously do not touch the metal part of the screwdriver while doing this and where leather gloves for safety.