Well, I have an FJ40 , 1969, and it is all original except the upholstery and the OME suspension. All the BIG items are stock original. My deep knowledge of FJ25 , early , is not great. This FJ25 actually looks good to me. Another thing, there was an FJ25 sold a while back for 75,000 dollars and if I remember he was a member here. So, what I am saying is maybe the buyer of this at 50,000 dollars actually knew that a lot of parts were not OEM and bought anyway. Perhaps a real OEM FJ25 in that condition is worth 20-30 higher ? Sometimes markets are hard to tell. Especially when I see an FJ40 that the front is a 1968, the hartop is 1978, the windshield frame is 1982, and on and on , go for more money than I can believe.
1957 FJ25 Land Cruiser RM Auctions Auburn, IN. Fall 2018 (1 Viewer)
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Well, I have an FJ40 , 1969, and it is all original except the upholstery and the OME suspension. All the BIG items are stock original. My deep knowledge of FJ25 , early , is not great. This FJ25 actually looks good to me. Another thing, there was an FJ25 sold a while back for 75,000 dollars and if I remember he was a member here. So, what I am saying is maybe the buyer of this at 50,000 dollars actually knew that a lot of parts were not OEM and bought anyway. Perhaps a real OEM FJ25 in that condition is worth 20-30 higher ? Sometimes markets are hard to tell. Especially when I see an FJ40 that the front is a 1968, the hartop is 1978, the windshield frame is 1982, and on and on , go for more money than I can believe.
Living in the Past
SILVER Star
This is the reason why I've given up the idea of restoring a FJ25 back to original. It's not about originality but rather fancy paint job and marketing. The deep pocket buyers do not care to take the time to research what they are buying. Lot less effort to do a shoddy job and market it as a wonderful original restoration. Sad but true.
- Thread starter
- #23
I have to say that the seller was not around and I can not say for sure what they did or did not tell the auction company. I do however think that it is the auction companies responsibility to accurately describe and represent the vehicle they are selling. If this was a Mopar vehicle, they would have had their
I agree with you. When it comes to Land Cruisers, unlike other collectible vehicles, most buyers seem to care less about the originality of the vehicle. V-8 conversions can bring as much as an all original restored trucks. It makes no sense to me.
I for one will not give up on the idea of having the nicest restored all original fj25. I have no plans to sell it and its not about the money. For me it is more about the pride in owing one of the most historically correct FJ25's in the world. If I put parts on it that are not correct, I feel like I am cheating. I just cant handle that! Maybe that is the perfectionist in me. I also love the thrill of the scavenger hunt, searching for parts all over the world and making amazing new friends along the way.
oregon fj
Serial rescuer of old vehicles
Not sure I agree. I've seen plenty of mis-represented cars at some of these auctions, and not obscure vehicles but things that they sell frequently. They can not perform the due diligence on each car for the bidders, the bidders need to do that themselves.
Bear
SILVER Star
True, hard-won experience and/or a thorough education can help protect the buyer, but some naive buyers have more money than smarts, and are often easily fleeced by sellers, or in some cases by an auction house with fast-talking barkers whipping the audience up into a bidding frenzy--an auction house which is NOT your friend, but a money-making machine.
Reputations are earned, and sadly, some auction houses--like some sellers-- have a poor record. Even more sad is that some of both remain doing business as usual. And saddest of all are the ill-informed clue-less buyers who are drawn to such people. Helpful information is out there to help them but they seem to ignore the importance of research.
Reputations are earned, and sadly, some auction houses--like some sellers-- have a poor record. Even more sad is that some of both remain doing business as usual. And saddest of all are the ill-informed clue-less buyers who are drawn to such people. Helpful information is out there to help them but they seem to ignore the importance of research.
HelloKitty65
SILVER Star
Fools and their money are soon parted.
A definitive list of the 'etcetera' of errors would be fun. Then we could calculate the actual percentage just plain wrongness. A simple "TO DO" list present for the new owner.
I'll start. Hood hinges. Not hard to locate, easy to restore.
HelloKitty65
SILVER Star
summary, plus. ? = anyone know for 1957?
Engine
Transmission
Master brake cylinder
Battery location
Horn
Wiper motor
Licence plate holder
Hood hinges
Incorrect hardware (bolts and nuts) all over the place
Hardware not painted
Upholstery rivited?
Joints of body filled?
Modern fuel filter
Battery hold down
Battery cables?
Dash holes
Radiator cap (changed between listing and auction)
Radiator?
Round mirror is later
Vinyl type on running board?
Wheels? brake inspection port?
Jerry can holder?
Bumper pads for the hood (should be jute?)
Engine
Transmission
Master brake cylinder
Battery location
Horn
Wiper motor
Licence plate holder
Hood hinges
Incorrect hardware (bolts and nuts) all over the place
Hardware not painted
Upholstery rivited?
Joints of body filled?
Modern fuel filter
Battery hold down
Battery cables?
Dash holes
Radiator cap (changed between listing and auction)
Radiator?
Round mirror is later
Vinyl type on running board?
Wheels? brake inspection port?
Jerry can holder?
Bumper pads for the hood (should be jute?)
Last edited:
Always remember, in an auction , both Auction house AND owner make money.
Here on mud is really THE place to scrutinize a LandCruiser. The general public usually does not look so far as bolt heads, original master cylinders, mirrors, etc... They want a neat, rough looking nostalgic vehicle to fit their lifestyle. I see the same thing in classic cars. A concours 1970 Hemi Cuda , commands 250,000 to over a million. Now, A Hemi Cuda CLONE, still commands 100,000 and up, but not close to original. If you look at it this way, this FJ25 is closer to a CLONE. Still brought 50,000 dollars.
Now, I certainly hope @Indygbd will post pictures of his complete, original FJ25 for all to see. I do not believe I have ever seen ALL ORIGINAL. Most of these trucks were utilitarian and used as they should. And, as maintenance required, I am sure parts were changed not considering the future originality. Who would have guessed the FJ40 would attain this status.
middlecalf
SILVER Star
Man if this lists get much longer I’ll be able to get $50k+ for my “all original” rig, lol.
As long as it is "all original" and not a rust bucket ?
Sometimes, it is hard to tell what is original. I just bought a very old fj25 in Brazil, a 57 with a chassis number that places it as the older 57 around your registry, and I still don't know what can be considered original or not in that CKD imported truck and there is no one alive or no existing institution around to inform me. Something as silly as a hornbutton can be the one put in the early Bandeirante or the one similar but still different used in the FJ25 and early FJ40 imported in the US, or a third one that appears in some spanish south american fj25. Even the engine is not a sure thing, there is a F engine number on the Id Plate but the legislation in Brazil at the time forced the use of a number of domestic parts to balance the currency import export. My FJ25 has 261 GM manufactured in Brazil, very similar but bigger and more powerful than the F engine of the time, and a GM emblem on the door of the glove compartment. And the importer owned a GM dealership. Same thing for the wheels, should they be japanese or brazilian. I don' t know about the buttons either, I don't know if mine are original or not. But they are different from the ones you have on the US import with english labels. The speedometer is the same and in english but in Kilometers. Sometimes All Original does not exist and cannot be verified for such rare cars.
Bear
SILVER Star
Thbebel,
The real question for you is: are you happy with what you purchased, knowing what you do of non-Japanese Toyota factory parts, made and installed in Brasil? "All original" does exist, just the details of where and what it is becomes the question. In your particular case, it is possible everything on your truck is exactly as Toyota do Brasil produced the vehicle, and thus it is original as to how it was sold by the Toyota subsidiary.
For the majority of FJ25 owners, the trucks as they came assembled from the Japanese factory are what they consider authentic, original vehicles, and what they are comparing available trucks against. Yours may be equally as rare and equally correct for what was available in your country at the time of manufacture. However, if you are wanting yours to look more like the Japanese factory produced models, then you, too, can join the hunt for the elusive parts that were on them.
So, for the sake of absolute clarity, the various versions of the FJ25s could spell out the importing country, version, factory options, and other variations to which they are holding as the pinnacle of perfection for comparison. However, I highly doubt that will happen here. With one-off, specialty, and ultra limited Ferraris, there are niches in which they all fit, where arguments occur, where prestige and inflated egos predominate.
But that's not here. Not yet, anyway...................
The real question for you is: are you happy with what you purchased, knowing what you do of non-Japanese Toyota factory parts, made and installed in Brasil? "All original" does exist, just the details of where and what it is becomes the question. In your particular case, it is possible everything on your truck is exactly as Toyota do Brasil produced the vehicle, and thus it is original as to how it was sold by the Toyota subsidiary.
For the majority of FJ25 owners, the trucks as they came assembled from the Japanese factory are what they consider authentic, original vehicles, and what they are comparing available trucks against. Yours may be equally as rare and equally correct for what was available in your country at the time of manufacture. However, if you are wanting yours to look more like the Japanese factory produced models, then you, too, can join the hunt for the elusive parts that were on them.
So, for the sake of absolute clarity, the various versions of the FJ25s could spell out the importing country, version, factory options, and other variations to which they are holding as the pinnacle of perfection for comparison. However, I highly doubt that will happen here. With one-off, specialty, and ultra limited Ferraris, there are niches in which they all fit, where arguments occur, where prestige and inflated egos predominate.
But that's not here. Not yet, anyway...................
Toyota was not in Brazil in 1957. The Bandeirante came a little later. My truck is a japanese CKD import and the eventual non japanese part were chosen by the importer Alpagral for local economic or legal reason. Now if , for example, that importer decided that a more powerful, cheaper GM 261 with easy available parts and maintenance, was a better option than the F engine, itself a GM engine clone, what would be the ideal original part? And it has to be understood that in some regions of the world where the FJ25 were exported, the past was and still is easily buried and History with a big H or history with a very small h, like the original parts of an imported truck, quickly disappear without traces.
Bear
SILVER Star
Thank-you for the time/date. I would suspect then that whatever specifications were given by Toyota in Japan as to the proper and correct assembly of their crated vehicles by the local representative, would prevail as to what is "correct" in terms of officially-sanctioned vehicles honored by the mother company.
But more to the point, since there are likely very few other surviving examples of your particular assembled CKD, if your goal is authenticity, then whatever documentation, if any, that yours is exactly as-built, should suffice to prove its originality. If, on the other hand, your aim is to recreate your truck to be as close as possible to the Japanese-built variants, then replacement of the non-Japanese parts would be in order. I can see that some current FJ25 owners would cast an unapproving eye toward the non-Japanese pieces on your truck, but if you're comfortable with what you have, that is all that should matter. In some respects, yours is even more rare, and potentially more valuable to a collector looking for something unique.
Certainly, you or any previous owners did not rip out the original engine, shove in a Chevy, and throw on a bunch of cheesy aftermarket parts. What you have is not your doing--Toyota offered different versions of a classic vehicle--to a number of different countries with different requirements. That is no different today. Yours is a rather unique situation from a time long ago, and you seem to have a good handle on the explanations to explain your case should anyone care to differ. Congrats on your find.
But more to the point, since there are likely very few other surviving examples of your particular assembled CKD, if your goal is authenticity, then whatever documentation, if any, that yours is exactly as-built, should suffice to prove its originality. If, on the other hand, your aim is to recreate your truck to be as close as possible to the Japanese-built variants, then replacement of the non-Japanese parts would be in order. I can see that some current FJ25 owners would cast an unapproving eye toward the non-Japanese pieces on your truck, but if you're comfortable with what you have, that is all that should matter. In some respects, yours is even more rare, and potentially more valuable to a collector looking for something unique.
Certainly, you or any previous owners did not rip out the original engine, shove in a Chevy, and throw on a bunch of cheesy aftermarket parts. What you have is not your doing--Toyota offered different versions of a classic vehicle--to a number of different countries with different requirements. That is no different today. Yours is a rather unique situation from a time long ago, and you seem to have a good handle on the explanations to explain your case should anyone care to differ. Congrats on your find.
Thanks for the congratulations. The truck is very rare indeed, in Brazil and anywhere else. I am almost afraid to use in the wild traffic of São Paulo.
middlecalf
SILVER Star
Well first time I’ve seen jute referenced. Does anyone know if this is the original material used for the various shims around cruisers (battery, radiator mount, etc)?
And a more related question, is there believed to be an early (vintage of this thread) cruiser anywhere that is original, meaning it has all of the original parts, bolts, nuts, fabric - any non-consumables - that were on it when it rolled off the sales floor the first time? Maybe at the LC museum or at Toyota corporation? Just curious.
HelloKitty65
SILVER Star
So was just reading that this was one of 58 Toyota's imported to the US that year (it was traded in by it's California owner for a new Toyota).
The Toyota Company bought it for their museum, and restored it. What I see is a round chrome mirror. Doesn't seem original, but I can't find out what is. Tells me they didn't restore full on...
I saved the jute material. Will post some pics.
