'13 LX recurring brake issues (1 Viewer)

[Realtalk]

I need some advice. Let me preface this by saying I am not very mechanically inclined, so any suggestions you give will be something I take to the mechanic as opposed to something I try myself.

I bought a pristine 2013 LX with 73k miles. It was serviced by Lexus every 5k. I did not see much brake service history, so one of the first things I did (at 76k miles) was replace the front rotors with Stoptech cryo rotors as well as pads all around. Pads were from Centric/Stoptech also. All of the parts were from part numbers recommended on this forum. An independent shop did the work. Eight months later, around 88k miles, I had significant brake shudder. I took it to an independent Lexus shop who looked it over and recommended turning the rotors. Everything felt good for about six more months. Now, at 94k, I have significant shudder again. I don't tow anything. Most of my driving is in the city, but I am conscious about my braking and after the 88k rotor turn I even put the truck in neutral at a light and let off the pedal if I have to step on the brakes harder than normal.

My sportscar buddies are telling me to have the mechanic look at a sticking piston, stuck caliper pins, or pad clips that are not functioning correctly. I have an appointment to take it to Lexus in a few days for them to look at it. I am at a loss given my limited technical knowledge, and hate that I spend my time while driving distracted by brake shudder instead of enjoying an amazing vehicle.

Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[paulunm]

A couple things I do to avoid warped rotors-

1. Always buy OE rotors from a Toyota dealer.

2. Never have rotors turned. That just removes mass from the rotor which will cause them to warp sooner.

I realize some people believe there’s no such thing as a warped rotor, and it’s pad deposits causing that symptom. I totally disagree, ever seen a rotor on a lathe? It’s obviously warped or they wouldn't need to turn/cut them on the lathe.

I also 100% of the time replace rotors and pads at the same time.

I doubt you have a bad piston, but I’d start with rotors and pads first.

 

[Realtalk]

Thanks for the reply. I am leaning toward just having Lexus put OE rotors and pads back on it. Will wait to see what anyone else says as well as what the mechanic thinks.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

i also have a 2013 lx. At 100k miles. i had my oem rotors and pads changed out by independent. i ordered my rotors, pads, and hardware from

Toyota Parts and Accessories Online - DeLuca Toyota in Ocala, FL - https://parts.delucatoyota.com/ used freeship for free shipping.

our lx use the same parts as the 2013 landcruiser. So, that is what i used to find the correct parts.

 

[Realtalk]

i also have a 2013 lx. At 100k miles. i had my oem rotors and pads changed out by independent. i ordered my rotors, pads, and hardware from

Toyota Parts and Accessories Online - DeLuca Toyota in Ocala, FL - https://parts.delucatoyota.com/ used freeship for free shipping.

our lx use the same parts as the 2013 landcruiser. So, that is what i used to find the correct parts.

Awesome, thanks for the link. I put front and rear rotors, along with pads all around in my cart, and will hold it there until I can talk with the mechanic. Is there anything else I would need in addition to those items? I saw someone mention on here recently about some brake "kit" or something similar.

 

[cboyd]

I bought a CPO 2015 and it developed pulsing very quickly after I bought it and the dealer turned the rotors. About 10k later it was back and demanded they replace the rotors - turns out what was on there was not OE and they missed it during CPO inspection. New pads and rotors and have been clean since (20k later) with a lot of towing.

I have also had issues on my 100 for years and after a lot of work including replacing nearly everything, SS lines, rotors and pads, it was eventually the calipers in the rear that were causing issues. Replaced with OE calipers when I did rotors and pads and no issues since.

so I’d say others are right - stick with OE rotors, but don’t rule out caliper issues. Calipers are cheap in the overall picture. Going back I would have replaced the ones on my 100 much earlier instead of refurb slides And guide kits, had I known.

 

[umarali]

I would only go with OE rotors and pads. I have seen few failed rotors very early which are not oem. OEM parts are not expensive in comparison to aftermarket. My recenty totalled LX had aftermarket rotors which were chewed and dropped inside dust cover in rear and ate half of caliper. I repacked caliper with new cylinder and replaced all four rotors and brake pads all oem and it was improved braking until it was totalled. if i recall correctly, OEM brake pads and all rotors was less than $500.

 

[Realtalk]

Give Duggy's Garage a chance over lexus dealer or Clear Choice. They are up on 45 North
@duggy

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Realtalk]

Update....Lexus looked it over this morning and said all rotors are shot. They all need replacing (with new pads). I expected this, and was going to ask them to replace them all with OE anyways.

However, they also discovered a nice crack in the radiator, which was leaking. This is concerning, given the heat down here in Houston. I also just road-tripped to New Orleans this past weekend. Thank goodness it didn't give up on me and the family in the middle of nowhere.

I called around and priced the repairs. This is for OE parts and labor. Here is the feedback:

1. Lexus dealership
Rotors and Pads all around: $1720
Radiator: $1300
Can start repair right now, and provide me with another car to drive

2. Independent Lexus Shop
Rotors and Pads all around: $880
Radiator: $1250
Can start repair tomorrow afternoon, and provide me with another car to drive

3. Toyota Repair and Mod Shop
Rotors and Pads all around: $1390
Radiator: $1357
Can start repair in two weeks, no loaner

Given this feedback, Lexus is replacing the radiator today. I will then take it to the independent Lexus shop for the brakes.

 

[TLC2013]

Looks like OEM Brakes for the front and rear rotors and pads is around $400. Id double check that the Indy shop which quoted 880 is in fact using OEM parts. That sounds like a good deal and hopefully they are. Not a bad price for all new brakes.

 

[vipergrhd]

Did anyone suggest to check your hub runout? Have a shop check lateral runout with a dial gauge before throwing a new set of rotors and pads a proper bedding of the pads also help to avoid deposits on your rotors. You can also ask if Lexus dealer have an on car brake lathe and see if that saves you a few bucks pads can be clean and reuse if thickness is acceptable and properly bed the brake pads after.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

You said you're not mechanically inclined, and I respect that - though I wonder if any of your fellow Mud members in Houston could assist you in doing these repairs yourself. Neither the brakes nor the radiator are difficult. You could save a ton of money and pick up some awesome skills/experience.

I also wanted to suggest that maybe putting your truck in neutral and letting off on the brake isn't the optimal way to prevent imprinting your rotors. Your pads are still in stationary contact with your blazing hot rotors even when your foot is off the brake.

A better solution might be 1) being mindful to avoid braking hard before coming to a full stop (like when coming off the interstate and reaching a stoplight at the end of the exit ramp), and 2) when hard stops can't be avoided, letting the truck creep forward ever so very, very slowly, until the rotors have time to cool off a bit.

That's my approach, and it works well for me. My commute has lots of long hill descents ending up at stop signs.

 

[Lester did that]

The brakes and rotors should be a routine job for any decent shop. I think your over paying with a dealer or 'Lexus" indy shop. A LX is still a Toyota and very simple for a mechanic. It's not a Ferrari. Compare the hourly rates of the mechanic's shops you are looking at. They are legally required in most states to post their rate. And every job has a specific time on how long it should take. So they can charge you what ever rate they want hourly, free market, but if the dealer says 4.5 hours and another guy says it's 10 hours ask why is 10 hours to do a 4.5 hour job. Yes things will come up that add an hour or 2 especially if there is rust. But It will help you from not getting fleeced.

Glad your sticking with OE. I looked into upgrading my brake system and my mechanic said don't do it stick OE with these things. OE is bullet proof even if your towing. Less issues and longer service life with a DD.

 

[Lester did that]

A better solution might be 1) being mindful to avoid braking hard before coming to a full stop (like when coming off the interstate and reaching a stoplight at the end of the exit ramp), and 2) when hard stops can't be avoided, letting the truck creep forward ever so very, very slowly, until the rotors have time to cool off a bit.

This is the understatement of the year. True with any vehicle especially one with weight. Don't slam on the breaks from speed and lock up the pads on the rotors. your holding the rotors in a fixed position and the small area where the pad is contacting them the temperature change in that area of the rotor is going to be extreme. The entire rotor is very hot and one small area is really really hot or cold depending. That's the warp and wear.

 

[Realtalk]

Thanks for everyone's response. We will see how the new rotors and pads hold up long term.

 

[bloc]

Imprinting will be reduced with less clamping force, if you have no choice but to sit still. But yes preventing heat buildup in the first place then making sure the heat doesn’t sit in one spot on the rotor is a better method.

And yes rotors develop runout, but the brakes are designed from the beginning to deal with this. Opposed floating pistons in front, calipers on lubricated slide pins with brackets allowing pads to move per runout in the back. Obviously there will be limits to what the systems can deal with but to simply say rotors with runout on a lathe debunk the pad deposit theory is a vast oversimplification.

What often causes significant pulsation is the rotor effectively getting thicker in certain spots due to uneven pad deposit buildup. The high spots create more friction, which develops more heat in that spot, which transfers more pad material.. and you have a positive feedback loop.

Turning rotors removed runout and pad material.. but it can also cut the rotor in a way that doesn’t align with the original grain structure of the casting. Not to mention removing material from the rotor that partially acts as a heat sink.

Have very high quality parts.. OE toyota is second to none (for our vehicles) and surprisingly cheap.

Avoiding heat in the first place is best.
Keep the pads moving on the rotor if possible.
If not, reduce clamping force.

If you can avoid the positive feedback loop this should be preventable.

 

[Realtalk]

After I get the new OE rotors and pads installed, should I do any sort of bedding? The Stoptech rotors that are being replaced had a bed-in process described either in the box or on the company's website.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I've experienced the same exact thing with brakes on my '14 LX. Bought it with 38k km, and had brake shudder within 2k km of driving. Replaced rotors (Stoptech) and pads (Toyota TRD) which helped, but the problem came back pretty quickly (maybe within 10k km). No complaints about the Stoptech rotors, but will be going with OEM rotors next time nonetheless.

Taking the above advice and slowly creeping forward while at a near-stop has seemingly helped, but it's a bit of a pain to have to constantly remember to do that. Never had any such issues with previous cars.

At the end of the day I think this is due to the heavy weight of the 200. I've also brought this up with two Lexus mechanics and both also said that they have seen this with LX models previously, and it's likely because of the weight. Not much you can do about that. And in my case it is made worse by living in a place with mountains on every side of me, so I'm constantly going up/down hills.

 

[bloc]

At the end of the day I think this is due to the heavy weight of the 200.

Ultimately that is the issue. The brakes on our trucks aren’t small, but they aren’t big either, being asked to fit into some 17” wheels. They have to do a lot of work for their size when you consider how these things are driven.

Plus, and this is me guessing here, it seems the off-road focus caused them to compromise on things like rotor cooling. No slots in the backing plates, for instance.

So we have to treat them a little different.

 

[Realtalk]

I've experienced the same exact thing with brakes on my '14 LX. Bought it with 38k km, and had brake shudder within 2k km of driving. Replaced rotors (Stoptech) and pads (Toyota TRD) which helped, but the problem came back pretty quickly (maybe within 10k km). No complaints about the Stoptech rotors, but will be going with OEM rotors next time nonetheless.

Taking the above advice and slowly creeping forward while at a near-stop has seemingly helped, but it's a bit of a pain to have to constantly remember to do that. Never had any such issues with previous cars.

At the end of the day I think this is due to the heavy weight of the 200. I've also brought this up with two Lexus mechanics and both also said that they have seen this with LX models previously, and it's likely because of the weight. Not much you can do about that. And in my case it is made worse by living in a place with mountains on every side of me, so I'm constantly going up/down hills.

I second your feeling that this is a pain to do. While we don't have mountains, we have 5 million people in our fair city and surrounds, which makes for a lot of stop and go traffic. I hear the point that these vehicles are heavy, but a lot of vehicles are heavy. My sister's suburban does not have this problem. Nor does my dad's Ram 3500. Both are 6,000lb+ vehicles.