12HT + FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[KeepCruzin]

Its time for a diesel!

I apologize in advance if this thread falls behind at all. I will be putting the majority of my build under my "expedition thread" that can be found at --> https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/1987-fj60-expedition-build.800027/

Most of my questions and diesel specific info will go in this thread as things move along.

So, the engine, a 12HT with 120,000 miles on it, right out of Japan. Rather than a half cut, I found a guy who would sell me everything out of the engine bay, the gauge cluster, the h55 transmission (which my rig already has) wiring harness, radiator, and the front and rear diff gears to comply with the different RPM and torque.


I recommend you take a look at my build thread if you want additional background on my rig or the engine.

Heres my first question!

What kind of compression numbers should I be looking for from an engine like this? I dont know if i want to rebuild it before it goes in because its my DD and I have a very limited time frame with which to do the swap. But if there is a threshold that you guys think would be the lowest compression numbers before its rebuild time, id love to hear it.

Thanks guys! Stay tuned, the build should get underway in about 3 weeks.

 

[roscoFJ73]

At this point I would recommend you get a factory manual. Someone was selling factory reproduction manuals in the US at a good price,Man a fre perhaps?

 

[KeepCruzin]

At this point I would recommend you get a factory manual. Someone was selling factory reproduction manuals in the US at a good price,Man a fre perhaps?

While I was at work, I poked through our small library of toyota books and found a 2H & 12HT manual. Heres what she said--

The workshop manual says:
>>>>
Compression pressure:
30.0 kg/cm2 (427 psi. 2,942 kPa) or more

Minimum pressure:
20.0 kg/cm2 (284 psi, 1,961 kPaJ

Difference between each cylinder:
2.0 kg/cm~ (28 psi, 196 kPa) or less

(f) If the cylinder compression in one or more cylinders is low, pour a small amount of engine oil into the cylinder through the injection nozzle hole and repeat steps (a) through (d) for the cylinder with low com- pression .
• If adding oil helps the compression, chances are that the piston rings and/or cylinder bore are worn or damaged.
• If pressure stays low, a valve may be sticking or seating improperly, or there may be leakage past the gasket.
<<<<<<<

 

[KeepCruzin]

I found an online version too!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52122956/toyota-landcruiser-engine-manual-2h-12ht

 

[roscoFJ73]

Good find!
There is a miss print there. Where it says "difference between each cyl 2.8 psi" ,it should read 28.4 psi as 10% is the maximium difference. But I see you go it worked out.

 

[Spudman]

Hey mate

Thanks for the link.

I luv the colour of your truck, I'm trying to decide if I should keep my flared guards or take them off

 

[KeepCruzin]

So I'm trying to build a rough timeline for my diesel swap.
I have to pull out my 2F, the wiring harness, radiator, front and rear diff gears, and the motor mounts.

I want to be able to start putting the 12HT in as soon as it gets to the shop, yet dont want to start pulling my rig apart 10 days in advance and it just sits gutless for 8 because I started too soon.

The motor mounts for the 12HT come with the engine so unfortunately I cant start welding those in.

If anyone has any general idea for how long this whole thing might take (swap from beginning to end, or just pieces) it would be greatly appreciated.

I have a pretty solid deadline to get the truck FINISHED, but I could start pulling the rig apart as soon as I want. Im budgeting myself about 20 days to do the whole thing and have the rig 100% drivable........ let me know if you guys think that is possible/impossible, probable/improbable. Im really looking for estimations on time needed to A. Dismantle and prep, and B. Instal, test, and troubleshoot

Remember this is my first diesel swap. I do have some great guys to help me out, but they will mostly be doing the "now hook those up to that, and plug those in there" point and talk sort of assistance.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

Subscribed to this thread. I'm considering buying an imported HJ61, but the RHD and 24 volt system are making me nervous. If your swap is successful I just might have to this route instead!

 

[MicahMan]

Subscribed to this thread. I'm considering buying an imported HJ61, but the RHD and 24 volt system are making me nervous. If your swap is successful I just might have to this route instead!

What makes you nervous? They are simple systems 24v is awesome and the right hand drive is no big deal. I daily driver mine and love it.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

I have never dealt with a 24 volt system. It seems that it would be a pain to get anything 12 volt to work correctly. And the RHD would probably just take some getting used to. I have been doing research all morning and I have to say that for a little bit more money (depending on vehicle cost and what diesel motor I decide on) I can find a good FJ60/62 and do a diesel swap. That sounds more like what I am after. The wife can still drive it and it would be something that I can "build" myself. That sounds more fun to me!

 

[Mr Tibbs]

What makes you nervous? They are simple systems 24v is awesome and the right hand drive is no big deal. I daily driver mine and love it.

Wait a minute, is this the Micah I talk to yesterday at the Expo???

 

[blis]

I have never dealt with a 24 volt system. It seems that it would be a pain to get anything 12 volt to work correctly. And the RHD would probably just take some getting used to. I have been doing research all morning and I have to say that for a little bit more money (depending on vehicle cost and what diesel motor I decide on) I can find a good FJ60/62 and do a diesel swap. That sounds more like what I am after. The wife can still drive it and it would be something that I can "build" myself. That sounds more fun to me!

You can get pretty much everything in 24v and what you cant, you can power with simple 24-12 dc converter... Also with 24v system come all kind of cool things like 5,5kw starter (you can drive the car with it) and nearly indestructible light bulbs ( Replaced 1 blinker lamp in 7 years)...

 

[DanS HJ-45]

So I'm trying to build a rough timeline for my diesel swap.
I have to pull out my 2F, the wiring harness, radiator, front and rear diff gears, and the motor mounts.

<snip>

The motor mounts for the 12HT come with the engine so unfortunately I cant start welding those in.

It will take you one day to pull the 2F, clean the engine bay, and remove the F series motor mounts. That will be a relatively long day. Make absolutely sure you label any plug that connects to the engine, or that is not connected as it sits.

If anyone has any general idea for how long this whole thing might take (swap from beginning to end, or just pieces) it would be greatly appreciated.

It took me 3 months, start to finish (the thread is in my signature). That said, I only got to work on it about 4-5 days a month, but those were full days. That includes some other stuff (like rebuilding the rear FF axle), and much of the parts shipping and ordering was done while I was away at work, so that I could arrive to the parts I needed for the next bit.

Note: this was my third Toyota diesel swap. First was a 2LT-E, second a 3B, then the 12HT. The 12HT from the HJ-61 half cut was by far the fastest, smoothest, and cleanest swap I did.

I have a pretty solid deadline to get the truck FINISHED, but I could start pulling the rig apart as soon as I want. Im budgeting myself about 20 days to do the whole thing and have the rig 100% drivable........ let me know if you guys think that is possible/impossible, probable/improbable. Im really looking for estimations on time needed to A. Dismantle and prep, and B. Instal, test, and troubleshoot

20 days of actual work is more than possible. The problem is, you WILL find things that absolutely need addressing when you get into it (such as cracks in the flywheel--good luck sourcing a 2H/12HT flywheel on short notice), and those things will absolutely kill your timeline. If I were given a relatively clean FJ-60, motor mounts, accessories, and drivetrain that I knew for a fact were perfect and ready to go: I'd bet I could do it in a week.

Remember this is my first diesel swap. I do have some great guys to help me out, but they will mostly be doing the "now hook those up to that, and plug those in there" point and talk sort of assistance.

If it's your first diesel swap, you won't move as fast. Not because there's anything magic about swapping in a diesel, but because you're going to have to figure stuff out and research stuff you didn't realize (like the vacuum shutoff on the 12HT--it's real simple, but chances are you'll want to check it's operation for yourself before you are comfortable wiring it up).

Other thoughts: why are you changing the diffs? A 12HT with 33's and 3.70 gears is a perfect combination, IMHO, but it would work just fine with 4.11's. That's probably a day or two of work that you don't necessarily need to do right then. If you are happy with your current H55f, I'd reuse it, because then you know it and that both driveshafts bolt to it in it's current location--again, a day of work you don't need to do right now.

Have you heard the motor run at all? Prior to being pulled from the donor vehicle did you hear it run? If it runs, and doesn't create gobs and goons of smoke, I'd suggest installing it as is, and run it as you can. It'll clean out a bit with some ATF or seafoam, and then you'll find out if it needs rebuild or not. Additionally, if you go down that road, you'll be putting the rebuilt engine back into a truck and wiring harness that you know work correctly. Besides, it's a 12HT. They have a reputation for being very reliable high mileage engines with just preventative maintenance, so you've got a better shot than not at having a good one. We just cleaned ours up and put it in not having any way to gauge it's history or mileage.

Dan

 

[MicahMan]

Wait a minute, is this the Micah I talk to yesterday at the Expo???

Yes this is me. Love the work on this build. Anyone can call me about my rig. They are fun. 801-824-50 nine nine

 

[KeepCruzin]

I have never dealt with a 24 volt system. It seems that it would be a pain to get anything 12 volt to work correctly. And the RHD would probably just take some getting used to. I have been doing research all morning and I have to say that for a little bit more money (depending on vehicle cost and what diesel motor I decide on) I can find a good FJ60/62 and do a diesel swap. That sounds more like what I am after. The wife can still drive it and it would be something that I can "build" myself. That sounds more fun to me!

The 24 volt system seemed a bit daunting to me too at first. But I will be transplanting the entire 24 volt gauge cluster and wiring harness from the donor truck. On top of that, I plan to keep everything other than the gauges and engine in 12 volt for the time being, and put in a dual battery system to handle the 12 and 24 volt devices. If you are interested I can focus on various aspects of the wiring as things go along. I might end up slowly transfering everything to 24 volt down the road, but only time will tell.

 

[KeepCruzin]

It will take you one day to pull the 2F, clean the engine bay, and remove the F series motor mounts. That will be a relatively long day. Make absolutely sure you label any plug that connects to the engine, or that is not connected as it sits.



It took me 3 months, start to finish (the thread is in my signature). That said, I only got to work on it about 4-5 days a month, but those were full days. That includes some other stuff (like rebuilding the rear FF axle), and much of the parts shipping and ordering was done while I was away at work, so that I could arrive to the parts I needed for the next bit.

Note: this was my third Toyota diesel swap. First was a 2LT-E, second a 3B, then the 12HT. The 12HT from the HJ-61 half cut was by far the fastest, smoothest, and cleanest swap I did.



20 days of actual work is more than possible. The problem is, you WILL find things that absolutely need addressing when you get into it (such as cracks in the flywheel--good luck sourcing a 2H/12HT flywheel on short notice), and those things will absolutely kill your timeline. If I were given a relatively clean FJ-60, motor mounts, accessories, and drivetrain that I knew for a fact were perfect and ready to go: I'd bet I could do it in a week.



If it's your first diesel swap, you won't move as fast. Not because there's anything magic about swapping in a diesel, but because you're going to have to figure stuff out and research stuff you didn't realize (like the vacuum shutoff on the 12HT--it's real simple, but chances are you'll want to check it's operation for yourself before you are comfortable wiring it up).

Other thoughts: why are you changing the diffs? A 12HT with 33's and 3.70 gears is a perfect combination, IMHO, but it would work just fine with 4.11's. That's probably a day or two of work that you don't necessarily need to do right then. If you are happy with your current H55f, I'd reuse it, because then you know it and that both driveshafts bolt to it in it's current location--again, a day of work you don't need to do right now.

Have you heard the motor run at all? Prior to being pulled from the donor vehicle did you hear it run? If it runs, and doesn't create gobs and goons of smoke, I'd suggest installing it as is, and run it as you can. It'll clean out a bit with some ATF or seafoam, and then you'll find out if it needs rebuild or not. Additionally, if you go down that road, you'll be putting the rebuilt engine back into a truck and wiring harness that you know work correctly. Besides, it's a 12HT. They have a reputation for being very reliable high mileage engines with just preventative maintenance, so you've got a better shot than not at having a good one. We just cleaned ours up and put it in not having any way to gauge it's history or mileage.

Dan

Well thats all good news for me! Thanks for the reply Dan.

I have videos of the startup, idle, and a 5 mile drive. The engine has about 120k miles on it, and puffs only a touch of smoke on start up, then runs crystal clean. The engine bay looks like its in great shape, and on the road it seemed to perform quite well.

I was under the impression that I would have to change the diff gears, but if you dont think I really need to, I may save that for last and run with what I have at the moment!

Im trying to be prepared to take the "bumps in the road" so to speak, but I dont think sourcing, nor research will be too much of an issue. I work at Mudrak Custom Cruisers in California, and Gary and the guys will be helping me through the tougher parts of the swap. Im sure if there's some bizzare part that I need, Gary will have one stashed in a bin somewhere. Regardless, I really hope this goes off without a hitch when it comes to requiring some strange part. And after seeing the engine run and drive so nicely, theres a small chance that there is anything too major wrong with the engine.

If I do rebuild it, chances are it wont require boring and I can get by with a gasket set and get Jeff to tune it for me at work. Im only 17 but Id rather go for it when Im young and learn as much as I can while I have the time for this sort of stuff! I absolutely love working on cruisers; theres something so rewarding about building something that shows quality and then being able to use it every day. I started with almost zero experience, and within 8 months Im full speed towards a diesel swap!!!!

Again, I cant thank you enough for all the advice. You guys on MUD really take the guesswork, and pitfalls out of this stuff. If it wasnt for all the information and support I get from you guys Id never even attempt something like this.

- Will

 

[DanS HJ-45]

I have videos of the startup, idle, and a 5 mile drive. The engine has about 120k miles on it, and puffs only a touch of smoke on start up, then runs crystal clean. The engine bay looks like its in great shape, and on the road it seemed to perform quite well.

Then I'd say you are golden on the engine. I'd plan on just installing the engine as is based upon that there.

I was under the impression that I would have to change the diff gears, but if you dont think I really need to, I may save that for last and run with what I have at the moment!

Nope. You may want to, but there's nothing mystical about the way a diesel engine turns a flywheel compared to a gas engine. Yes, there are different torque curves and whatnot, but you certainly won't hurt anything using too tall or short of gears for a while.

On all 3 of my swaps, I have kept the gas gear ratios, and run them with a rubber overdrive. With the gas engine they were always a bit overdriven, but with a diesel plant they are just right. Our 60 with the 12HT 3.70 gears and 33 inch tires is absolutely perfect IMHO. Cruises on the highway like it belongs, and doesn't feel fast at all when wheeling.

Im sure if there's some bizzare part that I need, Gary will have one stashed in a bin somewhere. Regardless, I really hope this goes off without a hitch when it comes to requiring some strange part.

Possibly, or know where to find one if you need one. But a lot of the odd diesel bits are simply rare enough that they very well may not just be stashed in a bin somewhere. But there's really very little that's diesel specific, that you don't already have coming. So probably not a huge deal.

Dan

 

[KeepCruzin]

On all 3 of my swaps, I have kept the gas gear ratios, and run them with a rubber overdrive. With the gas engine they were always a bit overdriven, but with a diesel plant they are just right. Our 60 with the 12HT 3.70 gears and 33 inch tires is absolutely perfect IMHO. Cruises on the highway like it belongs, and doesn't feel fast at all when wheeling.

Possibly, or know where to find one if you need one. But a lot of the odd diesel bits are simply rare enough that they very well may not just be stashed in a bin somewhere. But there's really very little that's diesel specific, that you don't already have coming. So probably not a huge deal.

Dan

That a real relief not having to change the diff gears. And as to the strange parts, theres only so much I can do other than expect SOMETHING to go wrong. At this point I'll just take it as it happens and fix what needs fixing and find what needs finding. Im just really hoping that I dont need to track down any strange parts, and I doubt I will.

Ill post some pictures of the rig that the engine is coming out of a little later today.
-Will

 

[MicahMan]

Get excited man! This will be a sweet rig once you are done! I'm loving that there are more oil burners showing up! Anything you need let me know! IF you need pictures of a completed engine or whatever. Keep up the great work! Your definitely doing this the smart way. The whole ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

 

[KeepCruzin]

Get excited man! This will be a sweet rig once you are done! I'm loving that there are more oil burners showing up! Anything you need let me know! IF you need pictures of a completed engine or whatever. Keep up the great work! Your definitely doing this the smart way. The whole ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

I dont think I can get any MORE excited!!!! I cant wait to get this build rolling. Ill be sure to post loads of pictures and info as it unfolds. I will also be taking a massive time lapse of the WHOLE project, from removing the old 2F, to final drive! I will also be making a before/after driving video and speed test!