100 vs LR3 (1 Viewer)

[uzj100]

Hey guys,

Interesting items on the 300 hp LR3 (Land Rover Discovery Replacement) order sheet. I have the order sheet because a friend of mine works at the Land Rover Dealership. I told him the only way I would even consider one, would be turbo diesel and solid front and rear axles. These two items will be available on the LR3 in other parts of the world.

Options
Locking Rear Differential
Cooler Box - Center Console

Why can't Toyota get their head out of the clouds and start offering these options on the LC? They have been available in other parts of the world for sometime. Toyota has lost the vision of what the LC is and should be in the states.

uzj100

 

[Owyhee Jackass]

Toyota has lost the vision of what the LC is and should be in the states.

uzj100

Yes, this has been said many-a-time. And I believe everyone except Country Club Mall Cruising Whoers, (oh and the occosional Navy enswine) concur.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Toyota offers the center console cooler box, rear diff lock as options on the LC 100 sold in Japan. The mid/upper grade 100 also comes w/ the auto height adjustment found on the LX470 here as a STANDARD feature. Of course, you can get either the V8 or 4.2L turbo diesel, too, and all this costs over $10K LESS than the V8, no locker/cooler version sold in N.A.!

 

[Jukelemon]

Rub it in Jim ( :

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Wouldn't trade my IFS 100 for a live axle 105 despite all the very tough runs I go on. A ride quality like my 80 would kill the pleasure of my 100. There will be 1 tough obstacle in a 100 (or less) where a locked solid axle 105 will go where my IFS 100 will not. Once you 3-inch lift it, add 35's and ARB lockers you've got pretty much all one would need in a vehicle this large to go most anywhere.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Just checked the Toyota Japan website. Sorry to see that this year, the LC 70 is no longer offered there. To my knowledge, it was the only 4-door hardtop LC 70 series still made in Japan. It came w/ live front axle, rear leaf/front coils, recirculating ball steering, diesel w/ manual 5spd tranny, and had optional front/rear diff locks, all for about $26K.

Now for the current LC 100, there are two categories: wagon and van (all have the same kind of rear door like the models here). The "van" comes in a VX limited or G Selection versions (mid and high grade), 4.2 L turbo diesel w/ 5spd auto. List on the mid-grade VX limited (HDJ101) is 4.4 million yen (about $40K), G Selection is 4.9 million yen. The wagon comes in a basic VX version, VX limited, and G Selection. Leather is an option on the VX Limited and G Selection, as is the cooler box (also other front/rear console options available). VSC comes on the VX Limited and G Selection standard. G Selection comes w/ auto height control standard, optional on the VX Limited (none on the VX). However, the electric rear diff lock is still available on ALL grades, as is the Aisin electric winch. FYI, the basic VX wagon (UZJ100) lists for 3.9 million yen ( so about $38K w/ diff lock). The list prices for both the V8 and I-6 TD are the same for the same corresponding grades.

Now I can see how US consumers may not care about paying for the rear diff lock when they don't even know what it is, but everyone can use a center console cooler! I'm surprised the LX470 doesn't offer that.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/LandCruiser100/menu/grade_val.html

 

[uzj100]

I wonder how long it would take me to go purchase a TD with a 5 speed auto, a cooler box, winch and rear diff lock at $40k? Do not care about leather or height control suspension. About 1 nano second.

What do they say about rear console, does this mean rear captian chairs are available?

Thank you for the info,

uzj100

 

[Jim_Chow]

Na, the rear console stuff was a leather-wrapped option. A few interesting facts I found: the TD version comes only w/ a single AC while the V8 VX Limited/G Selection versions have dual AC. The V8 versions have full reclining seats while the TD has only front reclining seats (but aftermarket reclining hinges are available). There's other stuff that's great for those who live in cold/humid climates like heated mirrors, headlamp cleaners, rear under mirror, digital pushbutton temp control like you see in airplanes, overhead consoles, etc.

On the LC Cygnus (LX470), there is NO diff lock available. Only a few options are available: side air bags, rear under mirror, rear deflector, headlamp cleaner, night view assist (that's the infrared beam that scans the road for objects, enhances the image and projects it on the windshield), side steps, Mark Levinson audio, and.....the cooler box! ( ($600 option)

 

[Augie]

The price to buy a vehicle in Japan are a lot cheaper because the tax and licensing fee are very high. I believe to own a Land Cruiser in Tokyo you would have to buy $10-15K parking permit before you could even buy it.

 

[Alacrity]

Diesels

AFA reliability, Jaguar benchmarks are much better than Mercedes ATM. Although at the cost of dilution of the marque. I believe they are doing the same thing for Land Rover - and the BMW interlude didnt hurt either. But I still wouldnt buy a current Rover (I didnt even consider a Disco , ended up with a GX) - and the LR3 looks oddly like the Element to me.

There are reasons beyond volume concerns for a lack of diesels and offroad biased (70 Cruiser, Defenders, etc) trucks its the alphabet - EPA, NHTSA, DOT.

VW is willing to cert a oilburner for 500 annual sales, but Im not sure thats a smart move. Theres serious engineering issues to overcome to continue sales past 2006 - diesels need to meet same requirements as gas. Tho I dont think the 4.2 (thats the 1HD-FTE?) can meet current particulate requirements, so bitch at the EPA, not that it will do any good. Heh recently Offroad diesels got hacked as well.

If you travel in Bolivia or Indonesia, all the offroad stuff makes sense - infrastructure is poor - and thats a generous assessment. But in the US the added expense, weight, and complexity outweighs the benefits. Hell you hafta root around for trails in the East. Wheelers dont represent enough of a market for mfgs to tailor product. We've had a Cruiser 100 since '99, and I bet the Diffs have been locked a dozen times. It just doesnt get wheeled much at all.

I do have older Series trucks, and they have their charm - but not for a daily driver - and are simple enough Solihull couldnt screw them up too bad. But try and find a utilitarian 4x4 anymore. Its not just Toyota. Hell we can barely source vinyl interior work trucks.

Luck
Alac

 

[Jim_Chow]

The price to buy a vehicle in Japan are a lot cheaper because the tax and licensing fee are very high. I believe to own a Land Cruiser in Tokyo you would have to buy $10-15K parking permit before you could even buy it.

Where I lived (about 40 miles out of Tokyo), it was $200/mo to park behind the apt building. If you were willing to walk a half mile to a dirt lot, you could rent a spot for $70/mo. The vehicle inspection tax isn't bad for the first 5 yrs...then it balloons, and more inspections are required (can be $1K/yr for an old car), which is why many people (at least in Tokyo) dump their vehicles at 5 yrs. Also, most people in cities use their cars for purely recreation...weekend drives to the beach during the humid summer, etc. I used to bike along the coastline between Enoshima & kamakura (about 3 miles apart), one of the "famous" drives in the Tokyo area. On weekend afternoons, there would be total gridlock..people just sit in their cars idling w/ the AC on and stop by the Royal Host for food (like Dennys). They then dump their cars around 5 yrs, the unwanted ones are bought and dismantled and parts sold overseas. When I was there, I was thinking about buying a Honda (Acura) integra w/ 10K miles on it for $5K, but balked at the $200/mo parking (being a cheap American!). Also, a SUV gets an extra tax of about $800/yr over that of a passenger car. So as Augie mentions, you can't charge as much. But do you think Toyota is selling LC100's in Japan at a loss? I doubt it. That gives you an idea of the extra price Americans are willing to pay for a luxury vehicle.

 

[simmikie]

Toyota offers the center console cooler box, rear diff lock as options on the LC 100 sold in Japan. The mid/upper grade 100 also comes w/ the auto height adjustment found on the LX470 here as a STANDARD feature. Of course, you can get either the V8 or 4.2L turbo diesel, too, and all this costs over $10K LESS than the V8, no locker/cooler version sold in N.A.!

When the tree-hugging environmentalist allow us to build refineries in this country (USA), and we can produce the low sulpher diesel fuels neede to run modern diesel engines, manufactuers might actually begin shipping the more fuel efficient turbo diesels here. Next PETA pr**k you see bounce a brick off of his/her skull. On second thought, that would be cruelty to a brick!

 

[simmikie]

AFA reliability, Jaguar benchmarks are much better than Mercedes ATM. Although at the cost of dilution of the marque. I believe they are doing the same thing for Land Rover - and the BMW interlude didnt hurt either. But I still wouldnt buy a current Rover (I didnt even consider a Disco , ended up with a GX) - and the LR3 looks oddly like the Element to me.

There are reasons beyond volume concerns for a lack of diesels and offroad biased (70 Cruiser, Defenders, etc) trucks its the alphabet - EPA, NHTSA, DOT.

VW is willing to cert a oilburner for 500 annual sales, but Im not sure thats a smart move. Theres serious engineering issues to overcome to continue sales past 2006 - diesels need to meet same requirements as gas. Tho I dont think the 4.2 (thats the 1HD-FTE?) can meet current particulate requirements, so bitch at the EPA, not that it will do any good. Heh recently Offroad diesels got hacked as well.

If you travel in Bolivia or Indonesia, all the offroad stuff makes sense - infrastructure is poor - and thats a generous assessment. But in the US the added expense, weight, and complexity outweighs the benefits. Hell you hafta root around for trails in the East. Wheelers dont represent enough of a market for mfgs to tailor product. We've had a Cruiser 100 since '99, and I bet the Diffs have been locked a dozen times. It just doesnt get wheeled much at all.

I do have older Series trucks, and they have their charm - but not for a daily driver - and are simple enough Solihull couldnt screw them up too bad. But try and find a utilitarian 4x4 anymore. Its not just Toyota. Hell we can barely source vinyl interior work trucks.

Luck
Alac

It is the high sulpher content in our diesel fuels that make diesels tough to pass our EPA standards. Blame the tree-huggers not the EPA.

 

[calamaridog]

How about those G-Wagons

I mean pitbulls...


But seriously folks. Does being owned by FORD make you better than before or worse than before if you are Land Rover? I've had serious quality issues with most of the FORD products I've owned.

And I consider myself lucky I can still buy the Land Cruiser at all, and at least there is some aftermarket support for folks like us.

The SEMA people are a powerful lobby, so the chances are we will still be able to buy aftermarket stuff and modify our trucks to suit our needs. Better than nothing at all, or being banned like they talk about in AU, where they actually need the mods. Go figure that one out

 

[NMuzj100]

Take your 100 to Slee and you can have your front and rear locker in a week. I don't get the whining.

Console cooler? - how practical (or close to the rugged Land Crusier ideal) is that anyway. Easy to get from AU too. Or better yet get the full fridge on a slider over drawers from Slee when you have it in for the lockers. None of these mods are expensive when compared with the sticker price for the truck.

Now a Diesel option equal to the VW V-10 but with toyota reliability. That would be something! I bet Toyota's not importing the 4.2 because it is not up to their NA standard. When they bring out a diesel here it will be top-of-the-line. They understand the importance of the first impression.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I can't believe any of us V8 owners could be happy with the 4.2 slug?

 

[cary]

AFA reliability, Jaguar benchmarks are much better than Mercedes ATM. Although at the cost of dilution of the marque. I believe they are doing the same thing for Land Rover - and the BMW interlude didnt hurt either. But I still wouldnt buy a current Rover (I didnt even consider a Disco , ended up with a GX) - and the LR3 looks oddly like the Element to me.

Luck
Alac

The ford premium group reliability stinks, whether it be Jag, Austin Martin, Rover, or Volvo. The only reason they reliability is better than Mercedes and BMW is that Mercedes quality has tanked in the past 10 years with BMW rapidly chasing them down. This is coming from a person who has owned BMW's and Mercedes for 15+ years.

Frankly, German quality for cars has gotten so bad, I don't want to buy another BMW or Mercedes. My wife really want's an X-5 and I am fighting tooth and nail. As much as it pains me to abandon BMW, if I have any say, the next car will be an LX or a LS430.

 

[mabrodis]

I can't believe any of us V8 owners could be happy with the 4.2 slug?

Good point John. In the US, like it or not, the market is driven by horsepower numbers and flashy gizmos. The V8 Cruiser is already way low on the horsepower numbers compared to the likes of Chevy/Ford, etc. Quality issues aside ("that's what you buy the warranty for" is the typical response of most americans) on paper many of these Ford/GM vehicles outshine a Cruiser. The Cruiser gets scoffed with the power it has now, think about if it had less, or they went back to a diesel and a slower vehicle, it would be a huge mistake for Toyota to make...atleast in the US. Now to make it available via special order, that's a different issue, and I think that's what Toyota should do, make many of these options available via special order only, so the dealerships still carry their normal alotment of luxo ones, but you could order almost anything, would take several months to get, etc..that's fine, but make it available.

 

[uzj100]

Yes, being able to actually order what you want is quite an idea. This is one way Toyota could get me into a dealership to talk about new vehicles. I usually buy used and let someone else take the depreciation hit. Now, if I could go in and pull up a cruiser and custom build the one I want, that would be sweet. TD, automatic, front and rear diff locks, frig center console, factory winch, dual batteries and a second set of steel wheels with mt tires.

uzj100

 

[calamaridog]

I say screw factory options. Aftermarket products are better anyways. Drivetrain options are good though.

All those things are easily added except the turbo diesel