100 owners check this out:

ginericLC

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I read the article and I hate to say it I agree with Shotts slightly on this. It wasn't an apples to apples comparison in all areas. I agree with end result of the article with the 80 winning if wheeling is the criteria. The only place I think a 100 kicks an 80s butt is in expedition style wheeling. Point a 100 down a two track road and it is right at home. I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of an 80 and more recently behind the wheel of my 100 to realize that there are some major differences. There are a lot of trails I took my 80 on with no fear but I can't imagine taking any 100 other than Slee's Blueberry on. Holy Cross in Colorado, Rubicon in California, almost any of the common wheeling trails in Idaho, Pritchett Canyon in Moab, and those are just ones I did last summer. And yes I know there are folks who have, but at what expense? Time, damage, and cost??? For me, I can't justify the time it would take to complete the trail or afford to deal with the potential damage. Harry is an alright guy and just like everyone else he is entitled to his opinions. And since he writes and takes some photos some of his opinions even make it into print, and 4wdTO magazine isn't the only magazine that prints opinions. That is the problem I have with doing a comparison like this as it is ultimately based on opinion as doing the comparison completely factually would require running the same trail with the same driver and timing them and then analyzing the breakage or difficulties each vehicle had. It would also require the same lift amount, same tires, same options to the best that you could. I'm pretty sure my opinion that the 80 kicks the 100s butt everywhere but in an expedition type wheeling excursion is correct, and I might even be quoted somewhere as this being factual information when really it is not. And that isn't to say that a good driver couldn't pull off some amazing things in a 100. At my level of experience, the 80 makes me look a lot better than I am, whereas the 100 makes me look like a drunk monkey behind the wheel.

As far as longevity, who knows really knows, I'm surprised Shott's said the 2UZ is longer living powertrain than the 1FZE in the other thread. I haven't seen many 2UZs with 200+ and definitely not any in the 300 and 500 + mileage categories but I've seen 1FZE powered 80s last that long. It sort of reminds me of a Toyota ad hanging in our guest bedroom, "We'll know how long it lasts when the first one wears out." And speaking of that, I think the 80 series is winning at that, the previous series did not have the creature comforts to make folks want to drive them that far. Sure there are 40s with 300k on them, but it took them 30 years to get there instead of 10-12. It does so much well that people are actually driving them so much that they are wearing out. Interiors are failing, door hinges, locks, etc... I imagine some day the 100 will be the same.

I don't think the article was anything to get really riled up about. I didn't agree with every sentence, but it didn't bother me that much either. I sometimes think Mr. Schott's enjoys the controversy. 4wdTO and TT both take submissions you are always welcome to submit them and if they make it past the editors they might even get printed, so if you have something to say, write it down!
 
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Holy Cross in Colorado, Rubicon in California, almost any of the common wheeling trails in Idaho, Pritchett Canyon in Moab, and those are just ones I did last summer.

I'm pretty sure my opinion that the 80 kicks the 100s butt everywhere but in an expedition type wheeling excursion is correct!

On those extreme trails, yes, the 80 is the winner. Take it only one notch down and the 100 does it as well on the trail as the 80. Plus....and I'll stay to the task of my original post............

with the 100 you have no overheating, no A/C cutting out, you can turn on all the rocks and ledges, it's smoother, climbs the hills easier, has TRAC/VSC on snow and ice and rain, no $800 rear mains, better brakes, more comfortable.

The ONLY place the 80 is a clear winner is on those trail-types you mention. The article didn't even give the 100 a fair painting of it's immense strengths. God....the engine section was just rediculous! METAL AIR BOX! TWO BELTS! THOSE MAKE FOR SEVERE CONDITIONS! :rolleyes:
 

ginericLC

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I guess I don't consider those extreme. I consider areas like Farmington, Cedar City, BFE and Helldorado in Moab are extreme.

I never had my AC cut out in my 80. Maybe that is only because you are putting your 80 through extreme conditions? Or because you were using the inferior R134 refrigerant or a replacement R134? I never had an issue with my 80 turning unless it was pinned against a rock. And I'm quite certain the same instances would create problems for my 100 too.

I think the 100 is a fine vehicle, if I did not I wouldn't own one. I just really think it pointless in comparing two vehicles because really it all about what makes you happy. What makes you happy might not make me happy, but that doesn't mean we can't wheel together and both have a good time if we are both comfortable on the trail.

I should just stop, because I will never convince you otherwise.

My point was and still is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and opinions get printed. Opinions can be slanted or biased. And I actually agree with the end result, even if I don't agree with every comparison of the two vehicles in the article.
 
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I guess I don't consider those extreme. I consider areas like Farmington, Cedar City, BFE and Helldorado in Moab are extreme.

Thanks for mentioning that Eric. Next time I am out in Arizona John I'd be happy to show you some "extreme" trails. ;)
D6FS3910.JPG
 

sleeoffroad

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I think Harry was trying to do a component by component comparison and then let the reader decide what components were the best for his application. We did some tech edit for Harry on the article and even us missed a couple of items. I am also not sure how much post editing happened by the editors.

Trying to discredit the article by saying that the type of wheeling was left out to stack the deck is just not right. I believe the intend was to direct the article to components and not terrain, where the are no factual basis. As Eric pointed out, his trail definitions is different from Johns and I am sure there are those that consider the mentioned trails is easy and have harder options available. That would have been a total waste of time.

Yes, some comments on components was Harry's opinion, but hey, he wrote it and I am sure he can defend it. However this gives the reader the chance to get a condensed version of the tech specs on the trucks. We can debate those on fact and discuss the merits of each system. It is still up to the reader to decide what components and design issues are important to him.

For example rear axles, I am the only one that I know about that has broken a rear 100 axle. Now was it stronger than a 80 axle, I do not know, what is fact is that it is a pain to replace, and in certain cases, even for expedition travel (ie, deep into the jungle) carrying spares is a pain due to the size. You can stick two spare axles for a 80 in a small tube and tie it to the frame. The 100 not sure. You have to carry the whole thing with backing plate etc etc. since you need a press to assemble.

The above is just an example of how we can discuss the pro's and cons of each system and illustrate with factual data without getting into a pissing match about nothing.
 

ginericLC

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Well to find out which is strong just send some axles up to Bobby Long to put in his breakage machine :)
I'm joking. I think that testing like that is important in developing stronger products but the tests don't always show what happens in real life. Repetitive stresses often lead to the final breakage.

I think both vehicles have their own merits, and as long as the owner is happy who cares. My best advice to anyone shopping is to get out on the trail with vehicles that you are interested in and give them a try. This works better in more populated areas or by going to a larger event. I know because every Cruiser I've bought or built has been the only one like it in the area and I was never able to sit in or drive one with any modifications or even see one up close before my purchase. Taking internet advice or even a magazine advice to make a purchase may or may not net a happy owner. So don't knock it until you've tried it whatever it would be.
 
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Thanks for mentioning that Eric. Next time I am out in Arizona John I'd be happy to show you some "extreme" trails. ;)

Stay objective Harry. :) You know very well a Land Cruiser Wagon (60 80 or 100) cannot run a trail like in the pic. We're not talking buggy trails. We're talking Cruisers. Nice try though.
 
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Trying to discredit the article....

When an article appears inside a tech magazine, the readers expect the information to be as accurate or gospel as possible. It is obvious to many based on the verbage that the wink went to the 80-series. That's not good in a tech article.

It's not about which vehicle one prefers or you or me like better. It's about presenting ALL the facts and accurately, fair and balanced.
 
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Wow - but good read anyhow - I just enjoy reading and learning about all the differences. When I first started shopping it was for a '97 80 series after reading a 100 best all time Off Road vehicles article in a 4X4 mag and I had also been in a few 80's.

If I were to really wheel my daily driver, I would have choosen an 80. I don't and I have a :princess: co-pilot so I choose the 100. Oh and she loves the heated seats too...

They are not comparable in my opinion - it matters most what you drive 90% of the time. Select your vehicle based on this and you can not go wrong with either.

That said, I am still trying to figure out how to send my kids to college and help Slee too! :D
 

sleeoffroad

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When an article appears inside a tech magazine, the readers expect the information to be as accurate or gospel as possible. It is obvious to many based on the verbage that the wink went to the 80-series. That's not good in a tech article.

But posting inacturate things on a tech forum is ok? :D

It's not about which vehicle one prefers or you or me like better. It's about presenting ALL the facts and accurately, fair and balanced.

It would be impossible to present all the facts from Harry's point. For example we have a much different perception on the trucks than what you have based on our day to day workings on them.
 
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But posting inacturate things on a tech forum is ok? :D

Who's doing that? :grinpimp:

You don't think the 100 would get 90% of the public vote as to which is better on the Ouray-area trails?

You don't think 95% the public would vote the 80 better through the Rubicon or up Blanca?
 

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