100% new brake system 0% pedal

sloanstavern

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I replaced all components in my 1982FJ 45 brake system (non USA drums on all corners).

I filled and bled the system but got zero brake pedal. Then I remembered I forgot to adjust the shoes so I did so and still no pedal. I even tried vacuum bleeding with no success.

I’m beginning to think it might be the new master cylinder, I did bench bleed the system but I noticed it’s weeping fluid on the center transfer port between the circuits. It doesn’t appear to be leaking but the elbow does move and I can see the fluid squishing around.

Anything I’m missing? Thanks
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Pighead

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How far out did you adjust your shoes?
Maybe try adjusting them all the way out, so the wheels won't turn then see what kind of pedal you get.
 

sloanstavern

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How far out did you adjust your shoes?
Maybe try adjusting them all the way out, so the wheels won't turn then see what kind of pedal you get.
Just so they began to grab. I’ll try going further and see what happens- thanks
 

cruisermatt

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is it the correct master cylinder? Where did you get it from?
 

sloanstavern

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How far out did you adjust your shoes?
Maybe try adjusting them all the way out, so the wheels won't turn then see what kind of pedal you get.
I think that did it. As soon as this storm passes, Ill fire her up and give it a try. Thanks!
 

sloanstavern

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is it the correct master cylinder? Where did you get it from?
Hey Matt as far as I can tell it is a match ( non OEM) I searched but could not find OEM.
 

cruisermatt

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I think you probably have a 8/80-newer FJ60/40 disc/drum MC installed.
It needs to be the correct one for non-adjusting brakes F/R and the larger drums. It is specific to that setup. You can pull out the fittings adapting the brake lines to the main MC body you should be able to see if it has the residual valves front and rear. If it doesn't it will never keep and hold pressure.

This is the correct MC. You can also see how it has the fittings on the top instead of the side. I am fairly sure @cruiseroutfit or SOR are the only places in the US that stock it. I've had to buy a few of them for the Colombian stuff that comes through. One case in which another shop brought me a 43 with the exact same issue you are having. They simply installed a MC for a 1981 Land Cruiser (two actually) and couldn't figure out why it didn't work... :)

You should still pull the fittings out of that MC and confirm is is missing the residual valves, as well as your original MC, assuming the brakes worked before. You should also fix that brake line that looks like someone has been using vice grips on it for years...

 

cruiseroutfit

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Matt nailed it. Lack of residual valve on a circuit feeding a drum brake setup will leave you pumping and pumping. It needs that back "residual" pressure to properly operate.
 

sloanstavern

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I think you probably have a 8/80-newer FJ60/40 disc/drum MC installed.
It needs to be the correct one for non-adjusting brakes F/R and the larger drums. It is specific to that setup. You can pull out the fittings adapting the brake lines to the main MC body you should be able to see if it has the residual valves front and rear. If it doesn't it will never keep and hold pressure.

This is the correct MC. You can also see how it has the fittings on the top instead of the side. I am fairly sure @cruiseroutfit or SOR are the only places in the US that stock it. I've had to buy a few of them for the Colombian stuff that comes through. One case in which another shop brought me a 43 with the exact same issue you are having. They simply installed a MC for a 1981 Land Cruiser (two actually) and couldn't figure out why it didn't work... :)

You should still pull the fittings out of that MC and confirm is is missing the residual valves, as well as your original MC, assuming the brakes worked before. You should also fix that brake line that looks like someone has been using vice grips on it for years...

Thanks Matt , I appreciate the detailed insight.

Before tare down I believe I had the same MC as my replacement ( w side mount fittings), brake lines looked configured for a side mount, and no issues that I can recall. I adjusted all the drums per manual, fired it up and actually backed out on her own power for the first time. The brakes did stop but not very well so I think you guys are onto something. I disassembled the old master cylinder with the side mount fittings but I can’t see any valves inside there.

What’s got me scratching my head is it looks like factory lines configured for side mount….🤔
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cruiseroutfit

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What is the month/year and full model code of your FJ45? Your lines look like they may have been tweaked to a side entry.

1645726688698.png


I looked up a few common 82 era drum front 45's, they have top lines:

1645726481971.png
 

sloanstavern

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Here you go- production date 4/82
Thanks!
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cruiseroutfit

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Repro data tag? Looks a tad odd to my eye. Either way, we'll run with that number. Shows as a 04/1982 FJ45LV-KC

That data definitely shows top lines which jives with my head.

1645739950887.png


However, 45/47's with the 3" front brake shoes (wider than standard 4x/6x stuff) use a different cylinder. You need:

BKN60150N - AISIN Brake Master Cylinder (BMT-085) Fits 8/80+ 45/47 w/front 3" wide DRUM brakes

This matches your model code/VIN. Give our team a call to order: 801-563-1277
 

sloanstavern

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If I do not say this enough - THANK YOU! Matt, Curt, et al. Your tribal knowledge saves us a lot of time money and headaches!

I ordered he correct MC and will let you know how it goes.
 

sloanstavern

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Thanks Curt the new MC arrived Saturday much quicker than I expected so I was able to tackle it first thing this morning.
I prepped the OR, and began the transplant. Old unit came out without issue and then I started the white knuckle portion of the operation cutting a new flare on a line in the engine bay.

I had to straighten the brake line slightly so I could slide the new fitting out of the way. I practice cutting some flares yesterday and this one turned out as good as I can make them. Then I had to re-bend the final radius for that brake line using two sockets an 11 mm to support the straight leg, and then a 15 mm to form the radius I wanted to create. I think it turned out OK

This may not have been best practice but I attached the brake lines in a horizontal position and snug them into place then I was able to bend them as I rotated the new master cylinder I knew there was no way I could bring those lines and then get the fittings to line up properly.

Once the master cylinder was bolted into place then I went back and tightened the fittings. I use that trick I learned on the TV show tighten it once, then back it off a quarter turn tighten it again and repeat after about three or four cycles you see your stop point is a good quarter Turn or more pass the original Starpoint sit in the line very nicely.


Went through and bled the system again and this time I’m getting decent pedal however it is a bit squishy ( confession time I didn’t bench bleed the master cylinder because I knew I was gonna be turning it all different directions and the fluid is just gonna go shot out everywhere)

I’ll drive a couple miles and then bleed the system again and that should do it. Thanks again Matt-Curt, et al for all the suggestions and solving the incorrect MC, I never would have seen that

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cruisermatt

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Drive the hell out of it for awhile. adjust the shoes and bleed it again. Once everything settles and wears in a little the pedal will firm up.
 

cruiseroutfit

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Glad to hear you're getting some brakes now. Drive/bleed and I'm sure it will be good brakes soon.

Thanks again @sloanstavern for the order and thanks @cruisermatt for the referral :cool:
 

sloanstavern

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Update, I think I’m paying the price for not bench bleeding the master cylinder. All four corners are adjusted properly at the drums, I bled it several times but still no paddle unless I pump it then it holds good pressure until I let go.

I’ve bled each corner starting furthest away and pushed about a quart of fluid through the system

Could the master cylinder behold him that much trapped air?
 

sloanstavern

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It’s time to step away from the firewall for a minute. This morning I was able to bleed the master cylinder completely a few bubbles came out of the back circuit and none that I could notice out of the front.
I did so into fashions, the first time I detached one circuit at a time and shut the fluid back into the master cylinder. The second time I ran both back into the master at the same time. Then I bled all four corners.

I know the shoes are adjusted OK because after a few pumps the pedal is rock solid.

The only other thing I can think of is the new wheel cylinders could still have air in them. I did not bench bleed those as I didn’t think it was necessary.

By the way does anyone know what that metal plug on the master cylinder is? Located between the two outlet fittings.
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