Audio Questions (2 Viewers)

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Jukelemon

Jukelemon

Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Threads
283
Messages
2,381
Location
Louisville, KY
I am getting a bunch of sh-t from the installer of my last radio regarding what I need what I do not etc... Can one of you who has installed radios before give me an idea of what I would need to do if I wanted to replace the OE front/rear speakers with Front Components and rear two ways. Specifically, what I would need in terms of a new amp (if any), wires etc... Where the amp would go, how much power I need etc... I know that already have front compnents but I am being told that they new compnents will not work with the factory amp. As well, inorder to get rid of that buzz in my radio (see earlier post) they had to do something with my audio signal (like decrease it) so now it sounds like hell.

Ideally, I would like to run my Eclipse deck, Eclipse components up front and Eclipse two ways in the rear.

Thanks.
 
Juke,
First thing... Are you still using your factory amp(s)? based on your noise problem, I would guess yes?

Your installer would be able to bypass the factory amp fairly easily, by accessing the speaker wires at the factory amp, under the passenger seat. I guarantee this would also cure your noise problem. The only downfall is I believe your subwoofer would no longer work, unless your installer is creative.
This may not be a bad thing really, the factory subwoofer is a little weak.

If you really want components in the front, yes the eclipse headunit would be a little weak to do this, it is probably possible, but not recommended. A small 2channel amp to the front speakers would cure that, unfortunately watt ratings are not regulated, for the most part you get what you pay for. a good 25-50 watts per channel is really enough, and most of those amps fit under the passenger seat, or in a rear side panel.

Have you considered a nice pair of coaxial speakers in the front, a cheaper pair in the rear (or leave them stock) , a small 2ch. amp w/ a 8 or 10" subwoofer? Most people would be happier with the sound of that design better, and probably same price.

I wouldn't blame your plugs for the "buzzing" . In general, I think it is because you are using the factory amp with your aftermarket radio. And yes you could possibly track down a poor ground as the culprit, but not neccesarily at the radio, you would have to check the factory amp(s), battery neg. cable, factory amp signal ground, rca shield on the rca, and it could go on and on.

The low level output is probably twice what the factory radio was than your eclipse, that is also a contributor.

Just my $.02 , hope it helps
 
One more quick thing, I had a high dollar system in my 80 and had the plugs changed, and right after that I noticed some engine noise, found a plug that took just a little extra push to seat it properly and the noise was gone, something to check.
 
I am running two JL Audio amps (1-for the 6-speakers and 1-for the Sub) that reside under the PS seat where the stock POS used to be. MB Quart round out the 4-door speakers plus 2-tweaters on the A-Pillar. No buzzing, no humming just pure clean hi-fi sound.
 
I am pretty sure that you can still use your factory amp to push a new set of components. I don't see why it wouldn't. Although, most people would recommend you upgrade the amp. Especially the people on this board that have already upgraded their system and love the way is sounds. I personally am using all factory speakers with the factory amp on an aftermarket deck. Aside from an upgraded subwoofer with its own independent amp. So, it works well in my application although I do plan on upgrading later. If you are not going to add a bigger sub w/amp, then I would definately upgrade the front amp. You could probably still use the same speaker wiring and placement on the new amp under the passenger seat.

Stereo install people are going to tell you whatever they need to charge you as much as possible. "You can't use the factory amp with and aftermarket deck, so here are some of the amps we can sell you", "We have to rewire your entire vehicle so that it will work". They are bull**** salesman just like any other salesman. Always going for the upsale, leaning on your ignorance. Trust them as much as you do a car salesman. ;)

As for the humming sound, that is most likely a grounding problem. If it started when they replaced the plugs, then I would check the battery negative along with the ground bolt that it goes to. They usually undo the neg. batt. terminal before doing any work under the hood. It is a good place to start. I am assuming that you hadn't had anything done anywhere on the dash right before the buzzing started.
The stereo place probably put a noise suppressor on your power wire which not only cancels out engine noise, but also some of the music too. Just a way of masking the problem. If you find what the problem is, you shouldn't need it.
Since you already have the suppresor on, then it will probably be more difficult to find the problem and know when it is fixed.
 
Thanks guys.

To answer some questions:

1- The buzz happened after I replaced the plugs-this was done by me. In other words, the OE ND plugs did NOT cause a buzz inthe deck. When I changed plugs, buzz came with it. As well, I did not touch ANY wiring i.e. I did not remove the Negative bat cable.

2- I would like to run a new sub/sub amp AND I would like to run two new sets of speakers-components in front and two ways in the rear.

So, do I have this right? I need an upgraded sub/sub amp and I need an upgraded amp for the components/rear speakers. I can remove my seat and use the wiring that is currently there to run all of this stuff?

I used to be pretty up to speed on audio (home) so I understand the concepts. Just want to be sure of the application to the the car.

As well, where can get the amps/speakers/wire and what type would you recommend? I do NOT want to have a competition/Hi Fi system. I just want a fairly nice system.

Thx guys.
 
Jukelemon said:
Thanks guys.

To answer some questions:

1- The buzz happened after I replaced the plugs-this was done by me. In other words, the OE ND plugs did NOT cause a buzz inthe deck. When I changed plugs, buzz came with it. As well, I did not touch ANY wiring i.e. I did not remove the Negative bat cable.

2- I would like to run a new sub/sub amp AND I would like to run two new sets of speakers-components in front and two ways in the rear.

So, do I have this right? I need an upgraded sub/sub amp and I need an upgraded amp for the components/rear speakers. I can remove my seat and use the wiring that is currently there to run all of this stuff?

I used to be pretty up to speed on audio (home) so I understand the concepts. Just want to be sure of the application to the the car.

As well, where can get the amps/speakers/wire and what type would you recommend? I do NOT want to have a competition/Hi Fi system. I just want a fairly nice system.

Thx guys.
Click to expand...


Juke...that is so wierd...I have the same year LC, same plugs (Bosch)...absolutely silent. It will be interesting (no sh*t, right?) to find out what is causing the buzz.

I think your choice for your audio system, as you surely know, depends upon your expectations. You can read my threads regarding my system elsewhere. I really enjoy music reproduced faithfully. I have always had a nice, mid-fi, system at home. And I, now, spend much more time listening in the LC...that's just the way it is...could I have spent more $$$...no doubt,as you know you can spend well into 5-figures on audio sound. Another thing I can't stress enough, for what it costs, is Dynamatting your door speakers as well as the full Dynamat
in all doors and tailgate...especially with a good sub back there. I, personally, don't think you need (particularly in a vehicle with lots of residual noise) need to spend big bucks on cables. However the guage/wire diameter is more important as you start pushing more watts longer distances...just like any electrical scheme.
 
Thanks.

So, what do you recommend? I see JL audio amps on ebay for reasonable amounts and I see MB quart speakers for a reasonable amount. I guess what I am looking for is for someone to say: shut up Juke and buy this and that. It will run you 500.00 and from what you listed as your expectations, you will be happy ( : As well, an idea of what I will see when I take off my seat and start to wire or where to wire/access the battery from the cabin when I run the power wires for the amps and how you connect the amps so that a sub amp sees (for lack of better words) the audio signal along with the component speaker amp and where to put your crossovers for your components. Man, do I have questions!
 
Juke...the component system I could recommend is the system I currently have installed. I don't know how the other MB/JL components would sound. And keep in mind, due to hunting/loud music, my ears are a little tweaked too. That is why I ened up having tweeters installed on the A-pillars as well as in the center of the MB front door speakers. I couldn't, if good sound is important to you, imagine you could spend less than $2,500 on the entire system these days.

Also please make sure, on your Eclipse deck, you have programmed the Security CD...if you have not and the power goes (for whatever reason...it doesn't care)...you will absolutely have to send the deck to Eclipse for resolution. Ask me how I know! The guys that put my system in were really righteous...they removed my deck to be sent to Eclipse (takes "3-4 weeks") and put a brand new Eclipse deck in for me to use in the mean time...and no-charge!
 
"So, do I have this right? I need an upgraded sub/sub amp and I need an upgraded amp for the components/rear speakers."

You don't "need" an upgraded front amp, but it is recommended. Depends on your budget.


Jukelemon said:
As well, an idea of what I will see when I take off my seat and start to wire or where to wire/access the battery from the cabin when I run the power wires for the amps and how you connect the amps so that a sub amp sees (for lack of better words) the audio signal along with the component speaker amp and where to put your crossovers for your components. Man, do I have questions!
Click to expand...


Now that is a runon sentence. ;)

I think this is a wiring diagram for the factory amp. Haven't looked under there, so I don't know for sure. Maybe someone esle who has can confirm.

http://carstereohelp.net/wireharness_Toyota1.htm

If you add new amps, it would be a good idea to run heavier power wires from the battery to the amp. You can add a power box inside if you really want to get into it. A heavier ground wire would be good too. Preferably, grounded within @ 18 inches of the amp.

What model stereo do you have? Some have sub outs to go along with the front and rear outs. Should be rca type connections. This would be ideal, but you can still hook up a sub if you only have front and rear outs.

If you replace the front amp, use a four channel amp and for the sub use a 2 channel or mono depending on the sub you use.

Also, keep in mind that you may spend all this money and still have that buzzing sound. I would find the root of the problem before replacing everything.

My stereo is the envy of all my friends and I spent less than $700 on hardware including the deck. Of course, everyone has different opinions. :rolleyes:

Basically, just figure out your budget and go from there.
 
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Runon??? I used "and" ( :

Horn: I hear you on the buzz. I am not looking into changing the amps because of the buzz. Logically, something must have happened when I changed the plugs since this event created the buzz.

If I could get into a great sytem for around that 700.00 mark, I would be very happy. My deck is an Eclipse 5405 or 5505 with the 5v line signal. I think it has the sub out but not sure.

What amps are you running?
 
From what I can find, the CD5405 does not have a sub out.

My system is great for me, but I am not sure you can do it with the deck that you have. My Sony not only has the sub out, but it has individual electronic adjustable crossovers for each channel. In other words, I can tweak which sound goes where. It doesn't appear that your model Eclipse has that function, so you would have to have an amps that are adjustable with hi-pass crossovers for the front and low-pass crossovers for the sub.

You can still put in a nice system, but if will probably cost quite a bit more.

I am running factory amp and speakers up front with a JL Audio sub. A Rockford Fosgate Punch 250 is bridged to push 310 watts to the two 10" woofers. Might be a little too much bass if you don't adjust it. I have it turned almost all the way down. Otherwise it can be too overpowering. Also depends on what kind of music you listen to. I listen to a bunch of rock and hip-hop so the bass make a big difference. Fills in the sound that I am blocking out of my door speakers very nicely. :D
 
Horn:

I do not have the manual in front of me but the Eclipse site states it has two preamp outs. Front/Rear stereo jacks maybe?

Anyway, no biggie, the amps I was looking at have that high cut low cut feature.

I guess I need to start reading/researching.
 
OK, here is what I going to do:

1- Take off the seat and measure my available space
2- Buy a 5 channel amp, 4 for the front and rear and one for the rear OE sub
3- Buy a set of Infinity Components for front
4- Buy a pair of Infinity two ways for rear
5- Replace factory rear sub with ??? (Anyone know what size will fit?)
6- New amp wiring kit

I think that is all I need. Should run about 700.00 and should sound pretty good for me.
 
Sounds like a pretty good plan.

If you want to put your sub in the same spot as your factory one then you will be limited by space. DMX84 mentioned in an earlier post that both the Kenwood KSC-SW1 and the Clarion SRV303 would fit.
Both have built in amps, so the fifth channel on your other amp would not be needed. Both are available on www.etronics.com at reasonable prices. About $150-$175. Might want to double check to make sure they will fit.

Kenwood KSC-SW1

http://etronics.resultspage.com/display.php?w=KSC-SW1+&p=Q&ts=dynamic&Store=

Clarion SRV303

http://etronics.resultspage.com/display.php?w=SRV303&p=Q&ts=dynamic&image1.x=12&image1.y=7

I like bigger subs, but they do tend to take up alot more space. :D
 
I measured the Kenwood KSC-SW1 to see if it would fit in the stock location--nope, it's much too tall. If somebody else wants to give it a try, please do. I'd like for it to work.

I didn't even bother to measure the Clarion as it received bad reviews. I think I might try to replace the little woofer in the OEM sub, it's only like a 6.5" or so.
 
Well, speakers are in-I went with Polk not Infinity. Polk db6500's up front and db650's in the rear. My amp is an Infinity Reference 111w X 4 at 4ohms. Got everything hooked up last night and for some reason, I do not have power to my Eclipse unit. The fuse is fine-I looked at the one in the engine bay labeled Radio and the back up fuse for memory off the Eclipse deck. Here is the odd part, I tested the 12v B+ for the Eclipse unit and...nothing. I am going to test again becasue it might be an issue with the probes making contact in the crimped wire hat (connector that looks like a wire nut but it is a crimp style). Any ideas as to what could have happened? It was not like I was tearing through the harness wires i.e. applying any kind of pressure that would have tore apart a connection. But logic states it has to be there i.e. No juice to unit.

The door panels were extremely easy to remove-under 5 minutes being careful. The compenets up front were a bit time consuming due to the mounting of the crossover but other than that, very straight forward. Rears were very easy. It looks like I might have to shim up my passemnger seat due to the height of the amp. My amp is about 3 times the size of the factory unit.

I'll keep you posted.
 
The first thing after the fuses that I would check is the wire harness @ the stereo. Sometimes when tugging a little bit around the wire harness, the wires become unseated from inside the harness even though everything looks fine. Make sure all the wires are all pressed firmly into the harness so that they get a good connection. Most importantly the red, black and yellow wires. Although, some harnesses use different colors. Once you double check that and confirm if you are getting power to the harness or not, it will be easier to diagnose. Also, make sure you check the voltage on the red and the yellow wire. Yellow should be constant 12v, while red should be switched on with ignition.
 
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Thanks Horn.

Problem is fixed and now I have sound...a lot of it.

Impressions are as follows:

1- MUCH more dynamic across the board i.e. I am hearing things I have not heard before from the CD's.
2- It is loud and clear.
3- I need a sub-it just does not sound right with all the clarity in the mids and highs and then no bass to round it out.
4- Did I say it was loud ( :

I have an Infinity Basslink coming to match my amp. 10" to 200w. Remote control Bass control. Should do the trick I think.

Thx for the help guys!
 
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