Dual Battery w/pic’s, verbose (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Threads
105
Messages
6,045
Location
Dixie co. Florida
Edit 3/4/06 hosting was lost, images re-added as attachments. due to the limits of attachemnents most of pictures are attached to posts other then where they are written about, I did attach the pictures in order though.


System

Things it can do:

Provide an Auxiliary battery to be abused by accessories while the engine is off, preserving the Main battery for engine starting.

Automatically charge both after engine start, via paralleling, isolate them on shutdown or if the alternator fails,

Bring on the aux battery for starting (paralleled to main) should the main be unable to do so on its own.

A way to disable paralleling.

Draw very little power when in use.

Cause very little voltage drop (.001v at charging current)

Kill power to the starter until commanded by the driver during start, protects from starter contact failure and also a mild theft deterrent.

In cab indication of power to the solenoid,

Provide a consistent source of power for both the OEM electrical and aftermarket loads, no loss of power, memories are maintained such as the clock, stored data in the EFI computer such as long term fuel trim, IAC position etc. The alternator and computers always have a cushion for spikes and sags in the main battery., aftermarket loads have the aux battery for the same thing.

Carry 200A continuous between batteries, 100A to the body, intermittent high amperage to the starter.

Over current protection of all loads through either switching or fuses.

Resist the elements


Things it cannot do:

Cut off power to the entire cruiser.

Start off of the aux battery alone without paralleling to the main.

Indicate state of charge of the batteries (working on this one)

Provide power to a winch (as it sits now, have plans)

Provide short protection for 3 of the 4 main large positive feeds

Close the 9012 solenoid if the Aux battery is %100 dead,



The original plan was a very stripped down version of “Slee’s Dual Battery Setup” just a solenoid and a switch. Wanted to keep the part count down for cost & reliability. If a part is not installed it cannot break.

Original plan
DualBatt.gif


Due to wants and problem stacking it grew some. Though it is still simpler than first glace at the diagram would tell.

As currently installed:
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Black, negative/ground
Red, un-fused +
Green, fused +
Blue, switched +

To give a return path (or more accurately source path) for electrical loads. the ground cables are 1/0 gage between the main battery, aux battery, block, and frame , 6 gage between the main battery and body The grounds must always be able to carry the same current as the +.

The main cables from the aux battery + post to the 9012 solenoid, from the solenoid to main battery + post, from main battery + to the starter kill solenoid, and on the starter are also 1/0

The control wiring is built for 10A and is fused at 5 or 7.5 Amps (7.5a charge fuse in under hood fuse box protects the alternator good signal)

The upper half of the rear heat switch controls the 3 mode positions: auto, on, and off,


In the auto position (“LO”) when the engine is started and the alternator starts producing power the alternator good signal goes to ~13.5v, This is ported through the switch to the coil of the mini relay allowing power from the aux battery through a fuse through the relay contacts, choke and then to the solenoid to parallel the batteries, the alternator is already connected to the main battery through the factory fusible links, when the batteries are paralleled the aux battery charges also.

When the solenoid is powered power is also ported back through the switch to light the green “LO” LED,

Inrush of the control circuit is somewhere between 3.8 and 5 amps for 130 milli-seconds, total combined continuous draw of the solenoid, relay and LED is very low at around 0.180 amps.

When the engine is shut down both the relay and solenoid open and the LED goes out, no power is consumed in off, nothing need be done switch is left in LO position


In manual “self jump” power from the second battery through the 5a fuses is ported to close the mini relay rest is similar to the above except the orange “HI” LED is lit, and it will remain closed regardless of engine/alternator operation


In off nothing happens in the control circuit, engine on or off, no power is consumed. The main battery powers OEM loads and is charged if the alternator is working, Aux battery powers aftermarket loads and is not charged.



In the original plan the wire that feeds the mini relay’s coil was suppose to go direct to the solenoid, but there was an electrical noise problem generated by the coil optimizer in the 9012 (PWM circuit) that added noise on AM radio on top of my pre existing engine noise on AM.

Talked to Wane @ Blue Sea I asked about the frequency of the PWM circuit, he did not know, did find out that the peak current of the square wave is 0.4a and average around 0.13a, he first recommended a 330 μF (micro farad) capacitor alone to reduce the electrical noise, I asked about using diodes or resistors to help and he said a choke would help but not really needed, being all about overkill in went the choke along with the capacitor to make a full filter, The choke tends toward leveling the current; the capacitor tends to level the voltage. that was revision 1, noise gone.

But now the alternator good signal would drop to 2v when it tried to close the solenoid and it never closed, I think the added inrush of the capacitor (very short but can be high) pissed off the IC in the alternator, so I had to take the burden off the IC with the mini relay. Revision 2 everything works

I have no idea how much current the alternator good signal can safely provide, after seeing Slee power a solenoid and 3 relay’s on his figured I was safe. Apparently not. Draw on the IC is now only 0.030A just the coil of the mini relay.

In the original plan since auto power came from the alternator the solenoid could be closed even if the Aux battery was completely dead. Manual closure required the aux battery power, this worked out as you would not want to try to self-jump off of a dead aux battery anyway, if the roles were revered and the main was dead the aux can still close the solenoid for self jump

Now the aux battery has to able to come up with ~5A @ 9v for 130 ms to close the solenoid In auto or manual, once closed alternator/main battery power will keep it closed

This should not be a problem in reality. Such a small load could be gotten off of a surface charge of a dead battery.
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Parts

Pair Concorde Lifeline sealed valve regulated AGM GPL-27T batteries $358 shipped

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=25299
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=31376
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB69&Number=644875

Blue Sea 9012 solenoid $116 shipped

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=34725
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=21649

Windshield washer bottle relocation bracket and pump wire extensions, home made. Slee sells a kit for around $50 .

FJ-80 (91-92) battery tray for passenger side, w/bolts and hold down assy. (2 hooks, cross bar and nuts), contact CDan or Slee for pricing

Rear heat switch (modified) from a parted out FJ-80 including the plug and 6” of the harness, $20 shipped, switch appears to be the same 91 through 97 including wire colors.

Old style Ford starter solenoid. New style was to cramped for large terminals. $8

Choke, robbed from dead G-force 3 video card, free or $350 depending on how you look at it.

35VDC 220 μF electrolytic capacitor, ~$2 (330 μF may be better)

Mini relay, contacts rated up to 10A 120vac, coil takes 0.03A @12vcd ~$5

20’ of 1/0 high strand very flexible welding cable, bare copper. $1.25/foot, tinned copper would have been nice but was not available.

Many heavy duty 1/0 tinned copper cable lugs with 5/16” and 3/8” ring, & 2 ea pos & neg lead plated cast copper battery terminals about ~$40

2x bolt, 10mm dia by 20mm long, 1.25mm thread pitch,

2x 3/8" fender washer for above bolts, 10mm washers if you can find them.

Heat shrink, many sizes and lots of it

15’ 6ga cable ~$forget (only used 6” so far)

In-line fuse holder blade type so common with other cruiser fuses. Makes carrying spares simpler.

Many small gage rings

Solder

Dielectric grease

Lots of 16 ga cable,

Zip ties, many sizes

Electrical tape

Epoxy

35mm film can

Perf Board (circuit board, predrilled .1" on center, no copper traces)


Total minus waste is probably just over $600 or so, if looking for cheaper you can save around $200 by going with cheap standard flooded batteries (Wal-Mart). A pair of high-end flooded batteries will get you back close to the above. If you are going to go flooded I would get the Wal-Mart group 27 marine starting. I do like the AGM’s though. Worth it just for being sealed, no worries about corrosion, performance increases are a nice extra.

Also the Blue Sea solenoid is not cheap, you could save about $50 going with a more conventional constant duty solenoid, the trade off is higher power consumption and possibly reliability, only time will tell.
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Tools.

Standard stuff: sockets, wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, hammer, file, dikes. pick set, vise fine sand paper, razor blades, etc.

Digital Multi meter, I have an older fluke 73 that I like and trust. While technically you can install batteries with out a meter I would not recommend it. You are working in the dark especially if there are problems.

1/0 Crimper, #3 Swage-It-Tool from Aircraft Spruce this could probably be found cheaper elsewhere, they have a retail store near me and so I got it there

For the 6ga I have an old hammer crimper that does an OK job, the #2 swage it tool would have been nice here.

For the light wiring I uses a ratcheting Crimpmaster from Ideal Industries that makes good crimps quickly, think I got it at home depot, I also have the jaws for it to do RJ-45 (Ethernet) and Coax, both work great. Well made tool

Also have their automatic wire stripper (Stripmaster) that got a work out here

Ancient Weller 100/140 watt soldering gun, garage sale years ago,

Propane torch, set to very low (about to go out) for heat shrink, heat gun would be a little easier to use but I do not have one, can also be used for large soldering tasks.

Pneumatic mini angle grinder, AKA die grinder, Dremel’s bigger brother, used with cut off wheels to cut the 6 and 1/0 cable makes a nice clean cut without deformation. Many other things could also be used including a hack saw.

10mm x 1.25 tap for grounds on block. Bottoming tap would be nice
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Install.

Started about a year ago with washer bottle relocation, made my own bracket to save some $. Came out very sturdy, it grabs the all 3 cruise control bolts giving is some spring on the rubber isolators, I relocated the diagnostic port to another bolt on the firewall that secures the gasket around the refrigerant lines, I had to trim the diagnostic bracket slightly to clear a protrusion in the firewall, also slightly bent the brake line bracket down both the bracket and brake line are soft requiring only light finger pressure. It just barely cleared before bending but I wanted more clearance to make up for vibration

Thanks to TrailCarnage for the raw stock and welding.

I cut the wires to the pump and spliced in lengths of wire, soldered and hat shirked, (remember to put the heat shrink on before you solder the wires together :doh: ) routed along the fender protected in spiral wrap and zip-tied into place

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Ordered the second tray from CDan, came with the bolts to install it to the fender and battery hold down assembly, requires some trimming to clear the fan shroud, go slow with the trimming I wound up cutting to much, fortunately I was able to save and reuse the foam in that area to fill the gap.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=35202

Other than that it is a nice fit, seals perfectly against the hood to keep heat out, nice to have an OEM place for the second battery. For the past year it has been a great place to store supplies under he hood.



rearheat.jpg


Next was the rear heat switch, unfortunately it will not work for this purpose as it comes, like a lot of Toyota electrical the rear fan is switched on the ground side, the LED’s also have a common ground to the fan, I had to electrically separate the two parts of the switch




rhs5.jpg



I first removed the harness plug, then remove the back light bulb (1/4 turn) then pressed the 4 black tabs in to release the base, then the 4 white tabs to release the switch plate, then the printed circuit board. Be careful pulling out the PCB the LED’s are attached to it needs to come strait out with no twisting, watch as it comes apart a lot of small parts are going to come out, need to watch to see how it goes back together.

rhs2.jpg


Then cut the trace with a small knife, the copper trace is a similar color to the board need to confirm it is completely cut with an ohmmeter Or there will be a direct positive to ground short.

Then soldered a new ground wire to the board to replace the cut trace. Drilled a hole in the white switch plate for the wire to pass

rhs3.jpg


Then drilled a hole in the black base cover for the wire to pass through

rhs4.jpg



Rear heat switch now has a total of 7 wires, not shown in this diagram is the back light bulb

rhs1.jpg


1, White/Black, + out to trip coil of mini relay
2. Blue/Yellow, + in from alt good in from cluster
3. Green, + from rheostat for back light bulb powers on with parking lights (not shown)
4. Black/Blue, + constant, from 5a fuse, aux battery.
5. Yellow, + from output of mini relay
6. White/Green, variable ground through rheostat (not shown)
7. White, ground to dash bolt, for LED’s


An easier way to do it would be a guarded SPDT-CO switch (single pole double throw, center off). Would not look as stock and no indication LED’s but easier to wire and would work just the same.



The Alt Good Signal starts in the regulator in the alternator, goes from the alt to the “7.5a charge” in the under hood fuse-box, this is where most people pick it up. The signal travel’s through the fuse to the EA1 connector between the fuse box and fender where it goes into the harness going to the dash. It then goes into the cluster through pin 7 of the c11 connector(blue) that is where I picked it up, it is convenient to the switch and in the cab so a nice dry place for a splice

Applies to 96 LX, others should be similar if not the same:


After removing the cluster I separated the pin from the connector and stripped back some of the insulation, soldered on the tap wire making sure it would nto interfeat with the connector when I put it back in, coated with dielectric grease and shrunk on the heat shrink.

cab.jpg



The remainder of the control side lives in film can near the solenoid; the relay, choke and capacitor were soldered to a section of perf-board two holes were drilled in the cap where the 6 wires pass through, +/- to the solenoid, + from the 5a fuse, ground from the body, + out to the led’s, and the trigger wire from the switch. Then epoxied that assy to the cap making sure to seal the holes, (pic taken at this stage), coated the whole thing with dielectric grease in case moisture does get in and put the body of the canister on the cap and zip tied it in place.

frc1.jpg



Next was making the cables.

I was hoping the Swage-It-Tool would make perfect radial crimps, it does not but it is close, started by making 2 crimps in line, this left a slight swell on the sides.


bcc1.jpg


Then 2 more crimps 90* to the first set.

bcc2.jpg


Then pulled back the insulation to apply dielectric grease to keep moisture out, this also tests the crimp

bcc3.jpg


smear the grease arround working it into the wire, slide the insulation back into place to form a grease seal.

This was were I was suppose to put on heat shrink, but I found out to late that the heat shrink I bought (biggest in town) was to small for 1/0 :doh:, on went black and red electrical tape. :ban:

more options for making cables,

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=21100
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Started with the Aux ground on the left side of the block.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=23423

pic looking down through exhaust, few inches behind AC compressor and water pump
agh1.jpg


the hole is threaded 10mm by 1.25 and the threads are shallow14mm the hole is slightly deeper, a bottoming tap could have gotten more depth, with the thickness of the lug and washer a 20mm long bolt was perfect. Cleaned the threads with a thread chaser and then the surface with 400 grit sand paper until all traces of rust were gone.

This is one of the places 90* or 45* lugs would have been nice, the only way out with a flat lug is back, I need to go foreword, so wound up with a 180* loop between the block and frame, at least this give room for engine movement.

Found an empty threaded hole there (for older style bump stops?) needed to secure the cable to keep it out of the axle so made a ground there and then kept on going to the negative post of the aux battery.

Place for future pic of frame ground

The Concorde battery has bronze alloy lugs that are also threaded for bronze bolts, 2 lengths came with the batteries for attaching more lugs. That and the tight spaces lead me to use direct cast copper battery terminals (tin plated) instead of the military terminals, this also makes for all copper connections. Was a little worried about the coarse bore in the cast terminals but after tightening the soft copper conformed nicely to the battery terminals.

auxbatt.jpg


The positive I ran along the same path as an existing harness that runed under the core support, I removed the horns, hood latch, and trans cooler mount to gain access, the harness was supported by clips into the support, the back of the clips are visible on top, squeezing the clips released them, I then ran zip-ties through the holes around the harness and positive cable and back up through the same hole, the lock of the zip tie is to large to pass through the hole so it attaches the wiring to the support, as this cable is un-fused I made sure to route is clear of any chafe points and added extra protection with spiral wrap. This positive ware terminates at the blue sea solenoid in front of the battery,

bss1.jpg


I chose that spot because is logical place between the two batteries and is also away from the heat of the engine, the radiator does not seam to put much heat in that area.

mainbatt.jpg


A short jumper goes from the Solenoid to the + post of the main battery (another nice place for a 90* terminal), another short jumper goes from the main battery to the starter kill solenoid.

The + and negative then follow the same path as the original wires re-using their supports.

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Looks great dude. What was your source for "alt good" signal? Was it the CHG fuse under the hood or something else?

Thanks.
 
Looks awesome Raven...and great write up and list of materials. Cna't wait to do something like this next year.

I think this should be considered an addition to the FAQ's...whattaya say Junk??

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH
 
alia176 said:
Looks great dude. What was your source for "alt good" signal? Was it the CHG fuse under the hood or something else?

Thanks.


Sort of, I tapped in on the back of the cluster it is electrically the same at the charge fuse.
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Nice write up Raven!
 
very nice write up
Now to get rid of the LX :princess: and get yourself a real LC...!
:D :D
 
Wow what is your electrical background? Great job.
 
Added some to the parts, tools and install sections, still not done, seams I can never complete anything.

I am glad you guys like. Hopefully parts of it will be useful for your future installs.

Eric, that's right LX drivers get more :princess: :flipoff2:

Rich, Thanks for the links to the boots :cheers: I have been looking for those around town, could not find any, Toyota did a good job with that with the OEM wiring. Those are a got to have, I have a bad habit of setting tools on the battery (nice flat convenient spot) been waiting to drop a wrench of the solenoid and see a fireworks show, it is only a matter of time.

wb1948, I do not have much professional (paid) electrical experience, I did some automotive electrical work as a kid/teenager, (repairs, stereo's, construction equipment etc) did not truly understand electricity until I went to A&P school, a few week of basic electricity (ohms law, component familiarization) then several months of applied electronics (less EE theory, more what matters to a technician) have not used it much at work but tinker on a hobby level
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Could you maybe clean under the hood at least next time ?? :flipoff2:

Really cool project . Guys like you scare me .. in a good way :D .


WIll make a great asset to our FAQ page .




:cheers:
 
Hey Raven,

Thanks for sharing so many details with everyone. Let me know how you like those lifeline batteries, I’d like to put in a set myself if I ever find the right 80 to buy (though I may still try the two 6V's in series, is there an extra inch of height available to accomadate them?). Looks like the battery spots could have taken an even large battery, maybe even a GPL-31T (.9 inches longer)? Definitely get some boots on those terminals though, I’ve dealt with Wrangler power products in the past, great products, good service!
 
RavenTai said:
I have a bad habit of setting tools on the battery (nice flat convenient spot) been waiting to drop a wrench of the solenoid and see a fireworks show, it is only a matter of time.


It does happen, trust me :rolleyes: ! I once had a really new looking leather man. Now it's got melted tips and blackened.

Oh, and Raven, is that a shotgun shell in that one pic just in front of the battery?
 
concretejungle said:
Oh, and Raven, is that a shotgun shell in that one pic just in front of the battery?


THANK-YOU !!! I really don't 'care' if it is a shell , but at least I now know I'm not alone in seeing it for that earlier !


TY - Phew *wiping panicked brow*
 

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