Drive Shaft U Joints (4 Viewers)

[HawkDriver]

I hate posting a thread that I'm certain should have been covered a dozen times or found in the FAQ, but an hour of searching is long enough.


The dealership wants $80 a piece for rear drive shaft U joints. I don't like to put non OEM Toyota parts on in general but I've changed many a joint with standard "affordable" joints in the past on various vehicles without any issues. Anybody have any recommendations or experience, positive/negative, with any non-Toyota joints? Please feel free to post up known part numbers as well (Toyota or other), Front & Rear if you like.

Internet search for make and model bring up plenty of choices for AC Delco, Spicer, and a few I've never heard of. Starting at $15-25 or so. $15 feels too cheap but $170 to replace the two on this 14 year old truck is kind of silly... they're just U joints...

Its a 2000.

Thanks!

 

[HawkDriver]

Thought I'd make a separate post about why I feel I need to change them.

Since the lift and tires I am working my way through the fairly long list of follow on mods/repairs that have become necessary.
-upper control arm replacement to hopefully allow alignment to return to within allowable spec and eliminate this nasty pull, planning on Slee's
-wheel spacers up front to provide the 315s a little more than the 5mm or so of inboard spindle (I think spindle, can't remember) clearance, as well as push them back out to somewhere near stock so they aren't riding so far in board with the T-bars cranked as they are, again Slee's
-wheel spacers out back to hopefully match fronts track width
-diff drop kit, maybe, if it becomes necessary but I had knowledge of this going in
-10mm body spacers perhaps
And so on...

I'm not certain of the cause but post lift I have a rather significant vibration under certain conditions. And the vibes seem to exhibit the typical joint type. It seems to feel like its physically coming directly from the rear drive shaft fwd end joint. I probably should remove one drive shaft at a time and test drive it to isolate one from the other but I have a hunch it's the rear. But on second thought, might that damage or cause problems for the system???

It drives smooth all up to about 50 mph. From 50 to 75 it starts as a low vibe then gradually gets pretty aggressive throughout that speed range. However, its aggressiveness depends on my rate of acceleration, and most notably if I let off the gas completely at say 65 it almost completely stops vibrating. It's a load issue I believe. Then at higher speeds it basically smooths out and is tolerable or not really noticeable.

My theory is that one of two problems is most likely the cause. 1) The slight change in angle (I'm estimating 2-5* maybe) is causing these 14 year old joints to struggle with their new wear pattern. So after some research I greased em up and put 5-700 miles or so on em to try to establish a new pattern, well no such luck. I should mention that after I greased every nipple under there the severity initially decreased significantly, but it didn't last long. So my hope would be that simply new joints will wear in their new position without any problems. 2) The yoke is extended some small measure (3-5 cm maybe) which is causing the whole area to be less supported and stable thus allowing more wobble overall - not good. This is my worst concern and I have contemplated the necessity to use spacers or some other method to return it to normal. That seems sketchy and I've never seen anything but flange on flange mounting ever, nor have I heard of any other hundy owner deal with that problem. Having replaced my rear shaft with a CV on my first 40 after the Spring Over I don't think the small amount of lift in this case would have caused enough angle change to warrant that, and again I've never heard of anyone do that on a 100.

Anyway... We'll see how this pans out. Thanks for the help.

Jeremy A

 

[Sandroad]

The dealer I use for parts only charges $54 for U joints so I went with OEM. I'm replacing all 4 on my truck to chase down a minor but persistent occillating vibration at highway speeds that seems to be coming from the drivetrain. The previous owner didn't grease them for 58000 miles, so I figured it was worth putting in new.

 

[jgray]

I had similar symptoms as described above. I replaced my u- joints with premium spicer joints and all my vibration issues went away. I put a more detailed post up if you search some.

 

[spressomon]

Originally had OEM u-joints replaced...vibes never ended until I swapped in a new OEM drive shaft assembly. And then new splines come along for the ride...

 

[Kigiin]

I replaced the rear thinking it would help with the thunk - it didn't, Grease was the solution.

 

[HawkDriver]

It looks like I'll be going with a set of Spicer 5-1510X joints. Multiple references call for that to be the Toyota OEM spec replacement part. The closest place that stocks them is an hour drive and costs about double what I can get them for on Amazon. If there were a local shop I'd prefer to support that but...

$47.99 each at 4WheelParts http://www.4wheelparts.com/Drivetra...aspx?t_c=12&t_s=515&t_pt=3624&t_pn=D/S5-1510X

$26.67 each at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CKR6RS/?tag=ihco-20

Hopefully I can follow up with a successful installation report when I get back in a few weeks.

If it comes down to driveshaft replacement I have two other options locally to consider. Tom Wood's Custom Driveshafts is right here in Ogden, and he's built one other for me in the past. Then there's Six States as well.


Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What year is your 100? I'm not in the office yet this morning but we stock Matsuba (OE Japanese) joints for the 25-100 shafts, I'm 95% sure we have the 100 options (2 different rear as I recall) in stock. $37.50 each so not quite Spicer cheap but then you have a known high-quality Japanese option. We use Spicer in our power-steeering conversions, nice stuff and I don't worry about quality so much as application.

 

[HawkDriver]

I was hoping you'd have em. Thanks for doing the cross referencing and measurements Kurt!

I'll be by to pick these up in a few weeks, along with the 40 pull handle and probably a list of other things. I'll call ya on those.

 

[HawkDriver]

Okay, I got the Matsuba joints from Kurt. They look just about as nice as the Toyota ones. The seals are nice and I'm sure they'll hold up to years of abuse. The center located grease zerk allows for easy greasing.

Unfortunately replacing these didn't solve my vibration problem. I am probably going to move towards the D/S extension route. I need about an inch added in length in order to put the slip yoke back in its original position which, in theory, should provide as much support and stability as it originally had.

...via IH8MUD app

 

[HawkDriver]

Since I took a minute to snap a few pics along the way I guess I'll post them up here as well. Not to say this is really a difficult task, but someone might find it useful, especially here in the big rig section, and its been quite some time since I have contributed some how-to.

This is just one of many methods to change out some u joints. It's been a long time but these are what I had handy at the time.

A couple of pieces of 2x4 steel tube worked alright. My dad used to have a notched railroad section about a foot long that was real handy, but these work. A press or a large vise would make it all that much easier.

With a large brass drift and a heavy hammer it takes only a few good whacks once the c clips are removed.

Placement on the opening lip proved key with this method. I ended up needing the vice grips and small hammer to tap them all the way out.

After wire brushing, filing away any burrs, and using emery sand paper to clean out each hole its ready to reassemble. Using care to barely install the caps one at a time while positioning the cross in place BEFORE tapping them all the way in is necessary. And then being very careful not to disrupt the needle bearings or to hammer the cross against the ends of any of them, you just tap them all the way in and install the clips again. LASTLY I always position the lobes as such to whack the caps back outward against the c clips allowing for freer, unbounded movement of the joint. It's also helpful to install the zerks before the joint is installed.




...via IH8MUD app

 

[HawkDriver]

And I was quite impressed at how well the original joints conditions were. Very little signs of wear over 15 years and 180k! When I had the shaft out on the bench I asked myself if I really needed to be changing these, as they seemed tight and smooth. But I went ahead with it anyway not really expecting much vibe difference afterward.

...via IH8MUD app

 

[UltraFJ40]

That'll be handy for those that might need the instructions.

Oh, FWIW, would you keep this thread updated or provide a link to the DS extension?

Pretty sure my vibe is also coming from the DS. OME 2.5" heavies in the rear and OME T-bars cranked. multiple wheels and tire combos, re-indexing 7,587 times & counting (probably still don't have it right) and the thing still does it.



Thanks Hawk.

 

[spressomon]

Per OP's experience, and per my above post, I experienced the same symptoms. All my prior driveline vibe experience told me it felt like u-joint wear. However just like HawkDriver's experience new OEM Toyota u-joints didn't effect the vibe. Only after replacing the entire driveshaft unit (OEM) did the vibes completely go away. The driveshaft was checked for irregularities at a driveline shop but nothing turned up as the culprit including any visual clue on the drive shaft tube. Still a mystery.

 

[UltraFJ40]

Per OP's experience, and per my above post, I experienced the same symptoms. All my prior driveline vibe experience told me it felt like u-joint wear. However just like HawkDriver's experience new OEM Toyota u-joints didn't effect the vibe. Only after replacing the entire driveshaft unit (OEM) did the vibes completely go away. The driveshaft was checked for irregularities at a driveline shop but nothing turned up as the culprit including any visual clue on the drive shaft tube. Still a mystery.

Thanks. I was about to re-index it again and/or have it indexed and balanced at a shop. Most likely I'll just order a replacement.

Did you order a longer one or use an extension by chance?

 

[spressomon]

I went with OEM. Just a casual hypothesis: Given my drive shaft and u-joints checked out on the bench I can only think there must have been enough wear in the spline interface to cause some vibe.

I do recall Onur and CDan stating they started stocking complete OEM driveshaft units for 80's due to spline wear. By the time Toyota u-joints need replacement due to high mileage wear the spline wear becomes a factor. Maybe Onur or CDan will chime in.

 

[UltraFJ40]

Thanks.

 

[uHu]

And I was quite impressed at how well the original joints conditions were. Very little signs of wear over 15 years and 180k! When I had the shaft out on the bench I asked myself if I really needed to be changing these, as they seemed tight and smooth. But I went ahead with it anyway not really expecting much vibe difference afterward.

Do you have micrometer measurements of new and old spiders and bearings? Just to get an idea of how much (or little) it takes to get vibes.

BTW - Great write-up. This is a job I expect having to do soon. I get vibrations after a few k km since the last lube - Then, with new grease, the vibes go away.

 

[HawkDriver]

That's good info Spressomon. I suppose I'll have to weigh the cost of a complete new OEM shaft vs. customizing the existing one or having one made. If Toyota wants $80 for each joint I can only imagine what they'll be asking for a complete shaft.

My reservation for straight OEM replacement also takes into account the one inch of extension the new shaft will be positioned and that reduction from the originally designed and intended amount of spline contact. This may or may not be an issue but an inch is a lot and it may in time cause premature spline wear or the vibes to return as well. That seems like a problem that probably wouldn't be an issue with the shaft being made to length accordingly, whether it be a customized new OEM, customizing the existing one, or a complete new custom shaft.

But then again, maybe I'm over thinking it all. All I know is it will be quite the relief when I get this straightened out.



About the mic measurements: I didn't take the time to measure any before I put the new ones in. But if you zoom in on that picture you'll see there is almost zero wear. I would guess that the most worn part may have changed by only a few thousandths. Now if this were a Chevy it would probably be a whole other story !


...via IH8MUD app

 

[Skidoo]

Your write up does not mention setup of clip rings. They come in several thicknesses to minimize play and need to be matched to center joint. Kurt may even offer a kit of these rings. Not setting these up right will cause vibrations.