3fe swap time
Whelp, finally blew the head gasket....what's on my todo list? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dranobob
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- Thread starter
- #23
Going through the list from above I am luckily I did a lot of these things 35k miles ago @ 205k when I prepared for my first move. I would have loved to have replaced the head gasket then, but I had a ticking clock to get everything done before I moved somewhere without a garage for 6 months.
Head Recommendations:
1. I will add clean Engine/transmission harness connectors to the list
2. Front shocks replaced (@205k)
3. All new lines and hoses, pads, pins, and rotors (@205k).
I have new master cylinder but haven't done anything with the booster. I'll take a look.
4. Should I replace the power steering hose preemptively?
5. I'll look into the block drain replacement.
6. Radiator and hoses replaced (@180k). I'll take a look at the replacement plug.
7. New belts (@205k)
8. I'll add exhaust manifold studs to the list.
9. I'll add header studs to the list.
10. Already nice and shiny
Engine Pull:
1. All motor mounts replaced (@205k)
2. I replaced Front Upper pan seal, upper and lower oil pan seals, transmission pan seal, both dipstick o-rings (@205k)
3. I have the rear main seal on hand!
4. A/C dryer I'll add to the list.
5. I did a full axle rebuild, tie rods ends, and steering dampener (@205k)
6. I'll add an oil cooler gasket to the list
7. Oil pump gasket was replaced at 180k, but I'll grab a new one to clean it out real good
8. Harmonic balancer. What are symptoms that this is suspect?
9. Cable replaced (@205k)
10. Are you recommending replacing the EGR or fuel rail to buy a new one?
Finally would anyone be able to help with a parts list for the rod and main bearings that should be replaced?
Head Recommendations:
1. I will add clean Engine/transmission harness connectors to the list
2. Front shocks replaced (@205k)
3. All new lines and hoses, pads, pins, and rotors (@205k).
I have new master cylinder but haven't done anything with the booster. I'll take a look.
4. Should I replace the power steering hose preemptively?
5. I'll look into the block drain replacement.
6. Radiator and hoses replaced (@180k). I'll take a look at the replacement plug.
7. New belts (@205k)
8. I'll add exhaust manifold studs to the list.
9. I'll add header studs to the list.
10. Already nice and shiny
Engine Pull:
1. All motor mounts replaced (@205k)
2. I replaced Front Upper pan seal, upper and lower oil pan seals, transmission pan seal, both dipstick o-rings (@205k)
3. I have the rear main seal on hand!
4. A/C dryer I'll add to the list.
5. I did a full axle rebuild, tie rods ends, and steering dampener (@205k)
6. I'll add an oil cooler gasket to the list
7. Oil pump gasket was replaced at 180k, but I'll grab a new one to clean it out real good
8. Harmonic balancer. What are symptoms that this is suspect?
9. Cable replaced (@205k)
10. Are you recommending replacing the EGR or fuel rail to buy a new one?
Finally would anyone be able to help with a parts list for the rod and main bearings that should be replaced?
tmxmotorsports
SILVER Star
I must have gotten lucky with mine. I bought mine with blown head gasket it sat for a while was hydro locked pulled tye plugs spun her over blew the water out didn't add any water back to the radiator put plugs back in it started right up left it like that for at least a year probably more than that with milky oil every once in a while I would start it and move it around and let it run. Then it finally was time ... pulled the head got oem kit head studs water pump t Stat new radiator fan clutch fan radiator hoses pesky hose mod new injector plug housings plugs oil change stuff to the head to the head shoo in va Beach va they decked tye head and new valve seals that's all I asked for put it all back together been fine ever since.....
Good luck man don't over do everything
Tommy
Good luck man don't over do everything
Tommy
I hate myself for the shortcuts, and rolls of the dice I've done that haven't paid off with my own 80
Mine has sat way too long, too many times because of busy work and life stuff, and bad decisions
Going through the list from above I am luckily I did a lot of these things 35k miles ago @ 205k when I prepared for my first move. I would have loved to have replaced the head gasket then, but I had a ticking clock to get everything done before I moved somewhere without a garage for 6 months.
Head Recommendations:
1. I will add clean Engine/transmission harness connectors to the list
2. Front shocks replaced (@205k)
3. All new lines and hoses, pads, pins, and rotors (@205k).
I have new master cylinder but haven't done anything with the booster. I'll take a look.
4. Should I replace the power steering hose preemptively? Assess when you can get a good look at it. have a hydraulics repair shop rebuild yours
5. I'll look into the block drain replacement. Meh, I've had no problem with the OEM one. It's not something you use regularly
6. Radiator and hoses replaced (@180k). I'll take a look at the replacement plug.
7. New belts (@205k)
8. I'll add exhaust manifold studs to the list.
9. I'll add header studs to the list. Exhaust manifold studs and nuts are a fairly small expense
10. Already nice and shiny
Engine Pull:
1. All motor mounts replaced (@205k)
2. I replaced Front Upper pan seal, upper and lower oil pan seals, transmission pan seal, both dipstick o-rings (@205k)
3. I have the rear main seal on hand!
4. A/C dryer I'll add to the list. You can leave the AC condenser in place, pull the radiator. Lift over the rad support. Leave the AC compressor hooked up, and pull it/ tie it out of the way
5. I did a full axle rebuild, tie rods ends, and steering dampener (@205k)
6. I'll add an oil cooler gasket to the list
7. Oil pump gasket was replaced at 180k, but I'll grab a new one to clean it out real good
8. Harmonic balancer. What are symptoms that this is suspect? Cracks in the rubber between the two steel pieces
9. Cable replaced (@205k)
10. Are you recommending replacing the EGR or fuel rail to buy a new one?
Finally would anyone be able to help with a parts list for the rod and main bearings that should be replaced? You need to open it up first, inspect what's there. Then take numbers of the block, and crankshaft to work out which bearings you need. Download the engine repair manual from resources section, the FSM
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Malleus
Far west of Siegen
4. For $40, given the HP hose is almost 30 years old, yes replace it.Going through the list from above I am luckily I did a lot of these things 35k miles ago @ 205k when I prepared for my first move. I would have loved to have replaced the head gasket then, but I had a ticking clock to get everything done before I moved somewhere without a garage for 6 months.
Head Recommendations:
1. I will add clean Engine/transmission harness connectors to the list
2. Front shocks replaced (@205k)
3. All new lines and hoses, pads, pins, and rotors (@205k).
I have new master cylinder but haven't done anything with the booster. I'll take a look.
4. Should I replace the power steering hose preemptively?
5. I'll look into the block drain replacement.
6. Radiator and hoses replaced (@180k). I'll take a look at the replacement plug.
7. New belts (@205k)
8. I'll add exhaust manifold studs to the list.
9. I'll add header studs to the list.
10. Already nice and shiny
Engine Pull:
1. All motor mounts replaced (@205k)
2. I replaced Front Upper pan seal, upper and lower oil pan seals, transmission pan seal, both dipstick o-rings (@205k)
3. I have the rear main seal on hand!
4. A/C dryer I'll add to the list.
5. I did a full axle rebuild, tie rods ends, and steering dampener (@205k)
6. I'll add an oil cooler gasket to the list
7. Oil pump gasket was replaced at 180k, but I'll grab a new one to clean it out real good
8. Harmonic balancer. What are symptoms that this is suspect?
9. Cable replaced (@205k)
10. Are you recommending replacing the EGR or fuel rail to buy a new one?
Finally would anyone be able to help with a parts list for the rod and main bearings that should be replaced?
8. The harmonic balancer wobbles if it's dead. The rubber inside forgets to stick on the metal. This is a tough one for you, because you can't run the engine to watch it. The aftermarket HBs are affordable; the OEM one is stupidly expensive for what it is. Like the PS HP hose, the damper rubber degrades over time, so if it was me, and I was pulling everything apart anyway, I'd replace it. Doing this later requires you to pull the radiator and swing a 3-ft long, 3/4" breaker bar between the grill and block (because you can't turn the engine to unscrew the bolt). Much easier while the engine's out.
10. Neither. I was simply commenting that if you do not elect to remove the EGR completely (which some do at this point), you should rewrap the harness where it crosses the EGR pipe. Toyota did this on the later harnesses, due to #6 injector wiring failures. The heat wrap degrades over time and the new wraps are better than what was used 30 years ago. Just don't put too much on, or the harness won't fit between the EGR pipe and the fuel rail. It'll be obvious what I'm talking about when you remove the upper intake and can see it. If, on the other hand, you delete the EGR system, you won't need the heat wrap.
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Most everything has already been covered so I'll just say this from my experience. Keep meticulous track of where each nut and bolt goes. When you pull the cam shaft and lifters make sure you keep them in order. I wrote on mine with a sharpie. OTRAMM has a very good youtube series on how to do the complete job. I followed his videos to the T and they didn't let me down. Fortunately my head didn't need any work and I ordered the head gasket valve grind kit and it had everything I needed. Threw the new gaskets and a few hoses in and called it a day. I got another 10k miles out of that motor before I sold the rig. I, however didn't have oil and coolant mixing though. I was getting bubbles in the coolant and having slight overheating in traffic. I was able to knock it out in a couple of weekends. Good luck with yours.
Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
ARP head studs are cheeper than OEM bolts. If your bolts are out of spec.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Yes, but you can't mix them. A full set isn't cheaper than 4 bolts. Something to consider...
Maybe i missed it but what makes you think it needs more work than just the head gasket and a head rebuild? How much was it run with the oil contaminated?
All that being said it makes no sense to cut corners on doing the head gasket job. If the bottom end wasnt making noise or anything and it wasnt run with coolant in the oil i would just do the head gasket.
But to me that means pull the head. Rebuild the head with OEM parts. Use oem gaskets and do it right. Then, same as any time the engine is opened up put fresh oil/filter in. Start it, change oil filters again after a brief period.
Why are we talking about all the bottem end stuff?
But back to the HG. You half to ask yourself why it failed in the first place. In my worthless opinion they fail becouse it got hot. If you have not redone the coolant system then that is as essential as doing the HG. If you have a 30 year old coolant system it is time to replace it. Every singe part, radiator, ALL hoses, water pump, heater valve, t stat and so one. Why would you reuse 30 year old coolant parts that already cooked one HG? Maybe you can replace the oil in the fan clutch and avoid replacing that part.
Not trying to be a dick. But that stuff is essential and you will have it all apart anyway.
And again, i am not trying to be a jerk but why would you replace a few hoses and not all of them? If one coolant hoae needs replacing they all do. They all have the same heat cycles and age which makes the rubber weak and brittle. A pin hole in a small little hose is just as catastrophic as a pin hole in the big hose. Kind of why i am confused when people change just the PHH as PM.
But there is a lot of good advice here. The video will walk you through it. Watch thw video over and over.
All that being said it makes no sense to cut corners on doing the head gasket job. If the bottom end wasnt making noise or anything and it wasnt run with coolant in the oil i would just do the head gasket.
But to me that means pull the head. Rebuild the head with OEM parts. Use oem gaskets and do it right. Then, same as any time the engine is opened up put fresh oil/filter in. Start it, change oil filters again after a brief period.
Why are we talking about all the bottem end stuff?
But back to the HG. You half to ask yourself why it failed in the first place. In my worthless opinion they fail becouse it got hot. If you have not redone the coolant system then that is as essential as doing the HG. If you have a 30 year old coolant system it is time to replace it. Every singe part, radiator, ALL hoses, water pump, heater valve, t stat and so one. Why would you reuse 30 year old coolant parts that already cooked one HG? Maybe you can replace the oil in the fan clutch and avoid replacing that part.
Not trying to be a dick. But that stuff is essential and you will have it all apart anyway.
And again, i am not trying to be a jerk but why would you replace a few hoses and not all of them? If one coolant hoae needs replacing they all do. They all have the same heat cycles and age which makes the rubber weak and brittle. A pin hole in a small little hose is just as catastrophic as a pin hole in the big hose. Kind of why i am confused when people change just the PHH as PM.
But there is a lot of good advice here. The video will walk you through it. Watch thw video over and over.
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See below
Pretty sure OP said he ran it with coolant in the oil.
How much is too much? How long does it take to destroy bearings? How much can you be sure you'll get away with it?
- Thread starter
- #35
Coolant system was already refreshed less than 50k miles ago. All new radiator, replaced all the hoses, and Toyota coolant to refill.
Luckily the truck was only driven out of the drive way and back in when it blew (tons of white coolant rich exhaust and I later verified chamber pressure was low on #6). So no real chance to overheat. Unfortunately it then sat for a year without me thinking to drain the coolant rich oil.
I really don’t suspect any cooling issues other than age. The truck lived in the flat Midwest for the previous 6 years and then I moved out to the PNW. Huge load differences on the engine. My rental was at the top of a subdivision that was nearly 2 miles of steep uphill climb everyday.
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The driving part doesn't sound bad. I'd pull the valve cover and see what the top end looks like from sitting in the oil coolant mix. If it looks good I'd just fix the head gasket and roll the dice. If it looks bad maybe remove the oil pan and check a rod bearing.
Fj80oregon
GOLD Star
Have you pulled the valve cover? If so post pictures. If there is rust there it is the same on the bottom end. These a couple pictures of a motor I rebuild that was run with a blown head and I drained the oil after purchase twice while running for a short time and still had substantial rust and putting on the bearings. This truck blew a head was driven 50ish miles and parked for 4 months before I bought it. A full rebuild was the only solution. Not trying to hi Jack your thread just wanna give some context to what a motor can look like when HG failed and contaminated oil sat for a period of time.
powderpig
SILVER Star
Well first off, I would wonder why the head gasket failed after 50K miles. Not common. Lots of good recommendations from the
posters above.
There had to be an issue you did not see or recognize when the first head gasket was changed. From what I am reading, you want to just get it up and running again, and drive it till you can afford to rebuild it. Again, lots of opinions from several posters for you to make your choices with. The quickest is just replace the HG with the OEM gasket set, and see what happens. 2-3 long days for this to be done, and off you go(that is if I read you right, you are doing the work).
Again, I would wonder why it failed. And if you wanted to just put a HG in again, how long would it be before it failed if you
did not recognize the issue that allowed the gasket to fail again. If it lasts another 50K miles would that fit what you are trying to
accomplish at this time. Or if it failed again in 10K miles would that be enough(if the block is damaged and you did not rectify that
issue, the problem would be time bomb).
I would suspect the top of the biock where the HG fire ring sets is lower than .002 that the block requires for the HG to seal.
As for the coolant in the oil. Depends on how much it actually runs on that oil for the oil to kill the bearings. but this may be a moot point when you find the block not flat(just a hunch). And the head does need to be flat for the HG to work, a bit of warp is OK, again .002(If I remember right), But if it like a lot of Aluminum head I have seen over the years, they do warp if the over heat is severe.
So me personally(based on what you are saying), I would pull the head an inspect. Decide what to do after that. Have a head gasket kit on hand. And if you find the issue that allowed the 2nd HG to fail, and it is not to bad of an issue, slap a gasket in and off you go till the next time it fails and hope it is not on a trail or far away from home. Engine is way easier to pull after the head is out, if that is any consolation.
Cheers.
posters above.
There had to be an issue you did not see or recognize when the first head gasket was changed. From what I am reading, you want to just get it up and running again, and drive it till you can afford to rebuild it. Again, lots of opinions from several posters for you to make your choices with. The quickest is just replace the HG with the OEM gasket set, and see what happens. 2-3 long days for this to be done, and off you go(that is if I read you right, you are doing the work).
Again, I would wonder why it failed. And if you wanted to just put a HG in again, how long would it be before it failed if you
did not recognize the issue that allowed the gasket to fail again. If it lasts another 50K miles would that fit what you are trying to
accomplish at this time. Or if it failed again in 10K miles would that be enough(if the block is damaged and you did not rectify that
issue, the problem would be time bomb).
I would suspect the top of the biock where the HG fire ring sets is lower than .002 that the block requires for the HG to seal.
As for the coolant in the oil. Depends on how much it actually runs on that oil for the oil to kill the bearings. but this may be a moot point when you find the block not flat(just a hunch). And the head does need to be flat for the HG to work, a bit of warp is OK, again .002(If I remember right), But if it like a lot of Aluminum head I have seen over the years, they do warp if the over heat is severe.
So me personally(based on what you are saying), I would pull the head an inspect. Decide what to do after that. Have a head gasket kit on hand. And if you find the issue that allowed the 2nd HG to fail, and it is not to bad of an issue, slap a gasket in and off you go till the next time it fails and hope it is not on a trail or far away from home. Engine is way easier to pull after the head is out, if that is any consolation.
Cheers.
- Thread starter
- #39
Just bumping the thread as I'm getting ready on Monday to start pulling the head and then likely engine depending on what I find. I did drain the oil and run some new oil through it for a minute. With all the coolant gone, it surprisingly ran as smooth as ever.
77mustard40
SILVER Star
How did the old oil look, was coolant visibly mixed in?
