1996 Land Cruiser EV Conversion - EVJ80 Project (2 Viewers)

[jpoole]

@J1000 have you seen the news from Toyota on a new Hydrogen combustion engine they have been developing? It's at least gotten a decent amount of airplay in various youtube videos and online as I've seen it there. Seems like they've made some changes from previous systems and are pushing forward with the tech though I don't know how much is really news and how much is hype, etc... I'm not sure if some of the limitations you are pointing out will still apply with what Toyota is planning but I've also not dug into it much.

 

[J1000]

@J1000 have you seen the news from Toyota on a new Hydrogen combustion engine they have been developing? It's at least gotten a decent amount of airplay in various youtube videos and online as I've seen it there. Seems like they've made some changes from previous systems and are pushing forward with the tech though I don't know how much is really news and how much is hype, etc... I'm not sure if some of the limitations you are pointing out will still apply with what Toyota is planning but I've also not dug into it much.

Oh yeah I'm aware of the Toyota V8 and some of the other hydrogen engines. The problem is the energy density of hydrogen. It's a dead end. 10,000psi in your car's gas tank....makes a Pinto look like a safe car

This is a good video about the limitations:

 

[tetelestia]

It's not even just the pressure that's the problem storing hydrogen. Hydrogen embrittlement and the difficulty of containing such a tiny molecule really limit the materials you can create a pressure vessel out of.

There may be uses for hydrogen as an energy source, but not likely in transport.

 

[DivByZero]

Valid concerns, but you're assuming no scientific improvements in this area. There are many, many promising developments in the area of using liquid ammonia as a carrier of hydrogen, which counter-intuitively has a higher density of hydrogen than liquid hydrogen. We keep on getting closer and closer to realistic "cracking" of ammonia to hydrogen at the point of use:

Revolutionary photocatalyst is huge news for green hydrogen and ammonia

A fundamental chemistry breakthrough promises to unlock ammonia as a clean fuel, and decarbonize the chemical industry in the process. Rice University researchers have created a small, LED-powered device that converts ammonia to hydrogen on the fly.

newatlas.com

There's also real experimentation in engines that run an ammonia/hydrogen mix in the combustion process, which again could solve this problem. If you can have a high capacity "dense" hydrogen store in the form of liquid ammonia, which doesn't need pressurisation, then a small "hydrogen expansion" tank for cracked pure hydrogen, the space requirements look far more modest.

Not to mention, for a fair comparison to EV battery technology, you'd need to talk about the weight penalty, rare earth metals problem, lithium mining pollution, fire risk, charging times, and so on. I think it's disingenuous to accept future unknown scientific breakthroughs on one hand as the solution for current problems with EV, and not afford the same benefit of the doubt to the (so far, less explored) hydrogen combustion technology.

 

[J1000]

Valid concerns, but you're assuming no scientific improvements in this area. There are many, many promising developments in the area of using liquid ammonia as a carrier of hydrogen, which counter-intuitively has a higher density of hydrogen than liquid hydrogen. We keep on getting closer and closer to realistic "cracking" of ammonia to hydrogen at the point of use:

Revolutionary photocatalyst is huge news for green hydrogen and ammonia

A fundamental chemistry breakthrough promises to unlock ammonia as a clean fuel, and decarbonize the chemical industry in the process. Rice University researchers have created a small, LED-powered device that converts ammonia to hydrogen on the fly.

newatlas.com

There's also real experimentation in engines that run an ammonia/hydrogen mix in the combustion process, which again could solve this problem. If you can have a high capacity "dense" hydrogen store in the form of liquid ammonia, which doesn't need pressurisation, then a small "hydrogen expansion" tank for cracked pure hydrogen, the space requirements look far more modest.

Not to mention, for a fair comparison to EV battery technology, you'd need to talk about the weight penalty, rare earth metals problem, lithium mining pollution, fire risk, charging times, and so on. I think it's disingenuous to accept future unknown scientific breakthroughs on one hand as the solution for current problems with EV, and not afford the same benefit of the doubt to the (so far, less explored) hydrogen combustion technology.

Well, for starters EVs work and are economically viable and you can buy them. So for all the downsides they do exist.

The appeal of EVs to me is that it's car that you can power up using cheap electricity at your house or use solar or other means. Where would I start with a liquid ammonia hydrogen combination?

And a hydrogen fuel cell car and an EV are essentially the same. The difference is whether it's a battery or a fuel cell that power it. But the electric motor and everything to do with propulsion is essentially the same. I just think batteries are better...for now.

 

[White Stripe]

@J1000 have you seen the news from Toyota on a new Hydrogen combustion engine they have been developing? It's at least gotten a decent amount of airplay in various youtube videos and online as I've seen it there. Seems like they've made some changes from previous systems and are pushing forward with the tech though I don't know how much is really news and how much is hype, etc... I'm not sure if some of the limitations you are pointing out will still apply with what Toyota is planning but I've also not dug into it much.

From what I understand new prototype internal combustion hydrogen has made some pretty signifcant advancements in the last 6 months or so. But thats a pretty different topic than this EV build thread. Probably best to start a seperate thread for that kind of stuff.

 

[DivByZero]

Agreed. I didn't mean to trigger a hydrogen vs batteries debate here, just express my interest in future "green" vehicle conversions like this one. I'm sure most people would have talked down the possibility of a working 80 EV conversion... until someone did it. Looking forward to more projects like this as the space continues to evolve.

 

[sunrk]

Steam reformation to produce hydrogen for fuel at industrial scale is 100x more environmentally damaging than refining of crude oil. Our federal government(s) are on the hydrogen bandwagon because of perceived biases towards industry. At the same time as trying to push electric vehicles as the next best thing.

 

[DivByZero]

Steam reformation to produce hydrogen for fuel at industrial scale is 100x more environmentally damaging than refining of crude oil. Our federal government(s) are on the hydrogen bandwagon because of perceived biases towards industry. At the same time as trying to push electric vehicles as the next best thing.

Hydrogen is a store of chemical potential energy, same as batteries. How you produce the hydrogen determines how "green" the process is, just as how you produce the electricity to charge your batteries (manufacturing and disposal aside) determines how "green" it is. You could produce hydrogen using nothing but solar and seawater, and you could charge an EV using nothing but coal or fossil fuels. In both cases, it's the generation that matters. You've shifted the problem from the tailpipe to the generation/distribution pipeline. A necessary step in going "green", but not the endgame until both sides are done properly.

 

[J1000]

Hydrogen is a store of chemical potential energy, same as batteries. How you produce the hydrogen determines how "green" the process is, just as how you produce the electricity to charge your batteries (manufacturing and disposal aside) determines how "green" it is. You could produce hydrogen using nothing but solar and seawater, and you could charge an EV using nothing but coal or fossil fuels. In both cases, it's the generation that matters. You've shifted the problem from the tailpipe to the generation/distribution pipeline. A necessary step in going "green", but not the endgame until both sides are done properly.

Hydrogen takes electricity to accumulate and store...why not just use that same electricity to charge a battery?

 

[J1000]

Tim of Gamiviti (@nakman) and I hung around today up in the misty mountains and took the EV80 out for a little cruise. Check it out!



Gamiviti is the maker of my roof rack and specializes in solar powered gear like fridges and water storage systems for overlanders.

 

[nakman]

That was fun to do, thanks again!

 

[J1000]

On Saturday I went wheeling with a couple of other 80 series friends. It was a close trail but still out of reach unless I used public charging. I used about 1/4 tank of gas the whole day in my tow rig and when I charged up my 80 it took about 15 KWH, or about $1.80 worth of electricity. I would have used most of the tank of gas if I had wheeled my gas truck the whole time... It is actually worth it to tow to the trailhead it does save gas!

 

[J1000]

Here are some more photos from wheeling a few weeks ago my buddy Colten took: www.instagram.com/Colten.photo

 

[J1000]

I got featured in Cars & Coffee Shift magazine check it out! The story starts on page 102, link here: Issue 4 – SHIFT | Colorado Magazine - https://shiftcoloradomagazine.com/issue-4/

 

[J1000]

Long time coming but here is episode 5 of my EV Land Cruiser build!

 

[J1000]

Episode 6 is out now!

 

[JadeMonkey]

I got featured in Cars & Coffee Shift magazine check it out! The story starts on page 102, link here: Issue 4 – SHIFT | Colorado Magazine - https://shiftcoloradomagazine.com/issue-4/

View attachment 3345411

Hey, SHIFT Colorado staff member here. It was cool to have you in the magazine and I know the team really appreciated getting to know your rig better. I was hoping to attend the shoot myself but couldn't make it work with my schedule. Thanks so much for taking the time and for letting us cover your sweet 80.

 

[J1000]

Hey, SHIFT Colorado staff member here. It was cool to have you in the magazine and I know the team really appreciated getting to know your rig better. I was hoping to attend the shoot myself but couldn't make it work with my schedule. Thanks so much for taking the time and for letting us cover your sweet 80.

Thanks for having me! I didn't know about the magazine before but it's really cool so I started reading more regularly.

 

[J1000]

Latest episode is out on wiring up all the major components in the truck and the Resolve-EV controller: