Which engine? (3 Viewers)

[Dougal]

I have disk brakes on all four.

Yes but it'll take more than just discs on all four corners to keep 4.5 ton straight if something goes wrong at higher speeds.

What is the max realistic speed that you need to travel? 110km/h?
The people I knew with 45 series landcruisers drove them at 80-90km/h max. They were a noisey handful past that.

The max speed and your patience on inclines will determine how much power you need. Drivetrain limits will determine what you can safely use.

There are very good reasons truck engines are built with a torque curve that peaks early and tapers off. It gives max driveability and keeps the drivers changing up. The average 4.5T 4x4 truck in my country has about 150hp and are geared for about 100km/h max, they'll do that for at least half a million km and many are built into offroad campers:

NPS450 4X4 - CAL Isuzu

calisuzu.co.nz

Those are a bit bigger. Up to 7,500kg GVM and 11,000kg GCM. But only 155hp.
DC version here: https://www.isuzu.co.nz/content/dam/isuzu/oc/nz/en/index/specs/n-series/NPS450C-Crew-VL24-v2.pdf

You would need to get your fuel pump properly tuned, bigger elements etc. It’s quite easily double the power of the 12H-T.

Yes but how long will a 12HT last at double the power? How long will the drivetrain last with double the power? Can you keep it cool under sustained load with that power?

Upgrading a heavy tourer isn't just about hp/torque numbers. It's much easier to blow up engines and gearboxes in heavier vehicles than the same hardware in a lighter one.

Best to pick a safe power/torque level for the existing engine/driveline and build to maximise driveability on it.

I know a guy with a twin turbo version of the 3208 in an old Chevy Suburban 4x4. He's been driving it for about 30 years and loves it. My BIL has an 1160 in a Firetruck he converted to haul his antique vehicles cross country. The 1160 is not very impressive. Cat still supports them though. Something to be said for that.

The 40 series doesn't have the room for the engine, turbo, radiator, intercooler and air-filters needed though. Fitting in a whole new driveline will be the next challenge. Same for the 6BT. You're not just fitting the engine.

Cummins R2.8. Hell no.

 

[sodafeld1]

as in the r2.8 is too much work to fit for a 40 series?

 

[AussieHJCruza]

The R2.8 is a rubbish engine

 

[sodafeld1]

jeez, the sales pitch hype is convincing. Always best to go with something well proven, which takes years to find out. We have some good keepers here.
It is a great danger with the internet we can 'hear' exactly what we want to hear.

 

[rideglobally]

Yes but it'll take more than just discs on all four corners to keep 4.5 ton straight if something goes wrong at higher speeds.

What is the max realistic speed that you need to travel? 110km/h?
The people I knew with 45 series landcruisers drove them at 80-90km/h max. They were a noisey handful past that.

The max speed and your patience on inclines will determine how much power you need. Drivetrain limits will determine what you can safely use.

There are very good reasons truck engines are built with a torque curve that peaks early and tapers off. It gives max driveability and keeps the drivers changing up. The average 4.5T 4x4 truck in my country has about 150hp and are geared for about 100km/h max, they'll do that for at least half a million km and many are built into offroad campers:

NPS450 4X4 - CAL Isuzu

calisuzu.co.nz

Those are a bit bigger. Up to 7,500kg GVM and 11,000kg GCM. But only 155hp.
DC version here: https://www.isuzu.co.nz/content/dam/isuzu/oc/nz/en/index/specs/n-series/NPS450C-Crew-VL24-v2.pdf


Yes but how long will a 12HT last at double the power? How long will the drivetrain last with double the power? Can you keep it cool under sustained load with that power?

Upgrading a heavy tourer isn't just about hp/torque numbers. It's much easier to blow up engines and gearboxes in heavier vehicles than the same hardware in a lighter one.

Best to pick a safe power/torque level for the existing engine/driveline and build to maximise driveability on it.



The 40 series doesn't have the room for the engine, turbo, radiator, intercooler and air-filters needed though. Fitting in a whole new driveline will be the next challenge. Same for the 6BT. You're not just fitting the engine.

Cummins R2.8. Hell no.

I cruiser 80 - 90 KPH on a flat, more if I push I keep my egt below 1000F and up to 1300F when on an incline. I drive my rig watching my egt mostly then torque. I hear you on the R2.8 thx.

 

[PIP]

R2.8 is abysmal trash. The Toyota diesel OP has puts the R2.8 to shame.

 

[wedgetail]

Can't help pointing out, it seems hard to find examples of hdfte longevity over 400k kms. The pump seems to fail.

Like the story of the hare and tortoise.

I believe the 6bt has a better longevity.

WTF? What rock have you been living under? 800k+ is the norm. I personally don’t know any that have died under 400k and I know a lot. Im excluding the random pics of failed ones with unknown histories on the internet. Mine is 510k and is as fresh as the day it rolled off the line. At 400k the big ends had imperceptible wear and crank would’ve passed as new. Most people I know are 500ks + and they’re also great. Everything on the original pump and injectors. The pump doesn’t “seem to fail” - they last a hell of a lot longer than the VE style pumps.

FTEs are probably the most durable longest lasting engines Toyota has ever made. With the possible exception of the 2H

 

[sodafeld1]

WTF? What rock have you been living under? 800k+ is the norm. I personally don’t know any that have died under 400k and I know a lot. Im excluding the random pics of failed ones with unknown histories on the internet. Mine is 510k and is as fresh as the day it rolled off the line. At 400k the big ends had imperceptible wear and crank would’ve passed as new. Most people I know are 500ks + and they’re also great. Everything on the original pump and injectors. The pump doesn’t “seem to fail” - they last a hell of a lot longer than the VE style pumps.

FTEs are probably the most durable longest lasting engines Toyota has ever made. With the possible exception of the 2H

Thanks Wedgy, morning to you! I am in the bush off grid often, so don't know much. Sorry for my ignorance.
Not attacking the fte, just asking.
Genuinely interested. Learning.

 

[wedgetail]

Thanks Wedgy, morning to you! I am in the bush off grid often, so don't know much. Sorry for my ignorance.
Not attacking the fte, just asking.
Genuinely interested. Learning.

No worries, sorry if I went off a bit hard. I’m in the bush too - Round here cruisers with FTEs are probably the most sort after - both utes and wagons as the new V8s don’t have the reliability and use more fuel. The prices reflect this - for similar condition and Km FTE fitted vehicles are worth considerably more than 1VD models. The V8s are great to drive but woe betide if you get dirty fuel or the air filter lets dust through

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Do all the people here trashing on the little cummins R2.8 have first hand experiences to back up their claims? Just curious where this is coming from. The few swaps I've seen done here seem to be working fantastic for the owners.

Reminds me of the LJ78 and 2LTE. Everyone who hates on it has never actually owned one. Mine has served me fine for over 10 years now, and is faster than any of the diesel cruisers in my local cruiser club.

Here's real world experience of the R2.8 in a troopy: SOLD - Cummins R2.8/H55f Quick Draw adapter kit, other components - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cummins-r2-8-h55f-quick-draw-adapter-kit-other-components.1304901/post-14817771

 

[sodafeld1]

No worries, sorry if I went off a bit hard. I’m in the bush too - Round here cruisers with FTEs are probably the most sort after - both utes and wagons as the new V8s don’t have the reliability and use more fuel. The prices reflect this - for similar condition and Km FTE fitted vehicles are worth considerably more than 1VD models. The V8s are great to drive but woe betide if you get dirty fuel or the air filter lets dust through

Interesting.
The loggers round where my block is don't worry about money, time is the essence for them so they need something off the shelf, ready to go. New, for claiming tax depreciation.

They wanted a troopy but had to settle for a dual cab vd. Too long a wait. One of those satisfying moments, from my perspective, when blood money can't buy everything.

Fte is sure looking like the main contender. All good.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Do all the people here trashing on the little cummins R2.8 have first hand experiences to back up their claims? Just curious where this is coming from. The few swaps I've seen done here seem to be working fantastic for the owners.

Reminds me of the LJ78 and 2LTE. Everyone who hates on it has never actually owned one. Mine has served me fine for over 10 years now, and is faster than any of the diesel cruisers in my local cruiser club.

Here's real world experience of the R2.8 in a troopy: SOLD - Cummins R2.8/H55f Quick Draw adapter kit, other components - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cummins-r2-8-h55f-quick-draw-adapter-kit-other-components.1304901/post-14817771

Not in a cruiser, but yes, some R2.8 experience here. They don't do well in the durability department and the power figures aren't that impressive TBH.
I'd much rather have a 2LTE than the little Cummins.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Not in a cruiser, but yes, some R2.8 experience here. They don't do well in the durability department and the power figures aren't that impressive TBH.
I'd much rather have a 2LTE than the little Cummins.

Numbers can be deceiving.

HD-FTE and R2.8 have similar power and torque figures out of the box.

The Amarok I have as a company vehicle is a 2 litre turbo diesel with similar power and torque numbers to the R2.8 too. It's chalk and cheese to a 4.2 litre diesel.

The Amarok is unpredictable and sketchy off the mark, or below 2000rpm.
A 4.2 litre Landcruiser cruiser diesel has far more torque at low RPM. It's torque from idle that gets you moving reliably.

I do not enjoy the Amarok at all. It goes fine once moving, but it's limp at low rpm, and highly strung at other times. And it's not caring any weight

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Numbers can be deceiving.

HD-FTE and R2.8 have similar power and torque figures out of the box.

The Amarok I have as a company vehicle is a 2 litre turbo diesel with similar power and torque numbers to the R2.8 too. It's chalk and cheese to a 4.2 litre diesel.

The Amarok is unpredictable and sketchy off the mark, or below 2000rpm.
A 4.2 litre Landcruiser cruiser diesel has far more torque at low RPM. It's torque from idle that gets you moving reliably.

I do not enjoy the Amarok at all. It goes fine once moving, but it's limp at low rpm, and highly strung at other times. And it's not caring any weight

100% - there isn't any replacement for displacement. I drove an Amarok for a while and they're a dog at low rpm

 

[rideglobally]

If i decide to change my 12ht, seem that 1HD-FTE is a good choice for me. My concern is the electronic. Can i carry spare part for it so that I can fix it myself? For example is there a chip or sensor that can be easily replaced “plug & play”. Can you plug in a computer to diagnosed the problem? What is the common issue with the electronic fuel control? It would be great to hear from direct experience. I have a 12ht with no computer but still carry a lot of extra part so that i can fix it myself, which i do most of the time. I am thinking I can do the same on the 1HD-FTE. What extra parts do i need to carry so that i can fix the fuel electronic system. Sorry I know these are basic questions, electronic is just scary to me, but if i can diagnose the problem and a sensor/part just need to be replace i can do that.thx

 

[wedgetail]

If i decide to change my 12ht, seem that 1HD-FTE is a good choice for me. My concern is the electronic. Can i carry spare part for it so that I can fix it myself? For example is there a chip or sensor that can be easily replaced “plug & play”. Can you plug in a computer to diagnosed the problem? What is the common issue with the electronic fuel control? It would be great to hear from direct experience. I have a 12ht with no computer but still carry a lot of extra part so that i can fix it myself, which i do most of the time. I am thinking I can do the same on the 1HD-FTE. What extra parts do i need to carry so that i can fix the fuel electronic system. Sorry I know these are basic questions, electronic is just scary to me, but if i can diagnose the problem and a sensor/part just need to be replace i can do that.thx

A lot of people bring this up, but in reality so long as proper plugs have been used and the level of wiring is kept to a high standard they are no less reliable than mechanical (often more reliable). The ECU and driver units are more reliable than mechanical pumps. You could carry a spare of each but that would be superfluous IMO. The vast majority of the high Km FTEs here used and abused in extreme have been untouched electronically (and mostly mechanically as well). There are idiosyncrasies that crop up like the wires on the shutdown butterfly get brittle (you’d be able to fix this in the bush), and the pot in the accelerator gets dirty (can be pulled apart and cleaned). Having a healthy alternator is a good thing, but then again being stuck at the bottom of a hill on your own with a flat battery in a mechanical diesel would have you equally screwed.

You’d want to have a decent filter system installed, a possibly a water in fuel alarm. And they wouldn’t like really low grade/impure diesel - more so than a 12H-T

 

[Hulsty]

My 1HDFTE is 20 years old, mechanical/electrical failures its had are, valve cover gasket, Viscous fan hub, intake shutter (electrical). The intake shutter I repaired with a soldering iron, it did send the car into limp mode (can drive, reduced power).

IMO I would still be looking at a 15BFT and H series box (not H55F).

 

[rideglobally]

A lot of people bring this up, but in reality so long as proper plugs have been used and the level of wiring is kept to a high standard they are no less reliable than mechanical (often more reliable). The ECU and driver units are more reliable than mechanical pumps. You could carry a spare of each but that would be superfluous IMO. The vast majority of the high Km FTEs here used and abused in extreme have been untouched electronically (and mostly mechanically as well). There are idiosyncrasies that crop up like the wires on the shutdown butterfly get brittle (you’d be able to fix this in the bush), and the pot in the accelerator gets dirty (can be pulled apart and cleaned). Having a healthy alternator is a good thing, but then again being stuck at the bottom of a hill on your own with a flat battery in a mechanical diesel would have you equally screwed.

You’d want to have a decent filter system installed, a possibly a water in fuel alarm. And they wouldn’t like really low grade/impure diesel - more so than a 12H-T

What about sensors? It must have sensor for the ECU to manage fuel intake.

 

[rideglobally]

I have h

My 1HDFTE is 20 years old, mechanical/electrical failures its had are, valve cover gasket, Viscous fan hub, intake shutter (electrical). The intake shutter I repaired with a soldering iron, it did send the car into limp mode (can drive, reduced power).

IMO I would still be looking at a 15BFT and H series box (not H55F)

Hearing about 15bft for the first time. I compared the specs to the 1hdfte. 1hdfte is stronger. I will do me googling thx

 

[wedgetail]

What about sensors? It must have sensor for the ECU to manage fuel intake.

There are a few sensors - manifold air pressure, coolant temp, air intake temp, RPM at pump, crank angle, pump timing sensor, and maybe more im
Forgetting. But my previous statement still applies