Question about PTO winch on HJ61 (1 Viewer)

[Blueberries]

Hi, I recently developed a leak from the output seal of the PTO winch after trying to pull a Silverado out of a stream. I thought that there was only a little oil in that gear housing but, it has been leaking for several weeks. The oil level seems to be ok in the transmission. Where could the oil be coming from?

Does anyone know how difficult it is to replace that seal?

Thanks!

 

[Dieseler]

Did you check the level in the transfer case sound like you may be emptying your TC if it has been leaking lots.

 

[blis]

The pto itself has about 1,5l of oil (not sure on the exact amount) and the transfer case has around 4l... However, the main gearbox can leak oil into transfer case... Best way to check for that is to open the FILL hole on the transfer case and see if oil comes out, if yes then the seal between gearbox and transfer is leaking...

 

[Blueberries]

Thanks

I must admit that I'm not sure what is what under there. The housing for the PTO is mounted to the ?

I checked the fill hole just above the PTO linkage on what I thought was the transmission and the oil seems to be fine. I can't find a fill hole on the part the pto housing is mounted to.

Are there some pictures on here of all of this? AND, is this serious?

Thanks very much!

 

[Dieseler]

your PTO shares the same fluid from the T case.... as mentioned you could have a seal gone from the tranny which is filling your T case but usually when this happens it over fills the level in the Tcase and comes gushing out when you remove the filler lug.
Find the trany filler lug and check the level of the trany.

 

[Blueberries]

Thanks again, for the advice. I'll look for a filler plug on the transfer case.

 

[blis]

your PTO shares the same fluid from the T case.... as mentioned you could have a seal gone from the tranny which is filling your T case but usually when this happens it over fills the level in the Tcase and comes gushing out when you remove the filler lug.
Find the trany filler lug and check the level of the trany.

Wrong, PTO has it's own oil that is separate from T case...

The fill plug for PTO is on top of the case, on the same side as pto shaft, drain plug is found under the pto shaft... T-case fill plug is left from the rear cardan, facing rear of the car, drain plug is found under the T-case...

PS. Checked the values, PTO has 0.5 liters of oil and T case has 2.2 liters... Main box has 4.9 liters...

 

[Fantom]

Wrong, PTO has it's own oil that is separate from T case...

So you are saying that the PTO case (attached to the transfer case) has a seal on the rotating gear that keeps the oil separate from the transfer case?
Interesting... That's not the case with every PTO I have ever seen, including non Toyota ones. The winch itself has separate oil, that's about it.

 

[blis]

So you are saying that the PTO case (attached to the transfer case) has a seal on the rotating gear that keeps the oil separate from the transfer case?
Interesting... That's not the case with every PTO I have ever seen, including non Toyota ones. The winch itself has separate oil, that's about it.

Yes, it has separate oil that is not shared with T-case. No, it doesnt have seal between two gears.. For further proof let me present the two pictures which I'm basing this (on top of my own experience)

 

[Dieseler]

Yes there is residual fluid in the PTO case for lubrication but the unit is not sealed off from the Tcase the postion of the PTO allows for fluid to sit in the bottom of the PTO housing and any additional fluid spills back into the Tcase ...when the gears of the PTO are working there is transfer of fluid from the Tcase gears spinning.
I had an inspection plate on one of my PTOs and observed this transfer in action when I was trying to solve an engagement issue.
If the trans seal is allowing fluid to flow into the Tcase this will overfill the Tcase and will fill the PTO case and if any of the gaskets are faulty will leak from the PTO possible scenario.

 

[Blueberries]

thanks guys, I'm glad you figured that out! From what you've said, the transmission is connected to the transfer case which has the PTO case mounted to the side of it!

So, if I have extra fluid dripping out of a warn seal in the PTO, the oil must be coming from the Transfer case. Can you tell me where the transfer case check plug is? I've checked the transmission and it is fine.

I'll need to refill the T-case if I'm going to keep motoring while I think about getting the pto seal fixed.

Help with this would be much appreciated!

 

[cruiser_guy]

I'll try to make this as clear as possible. The tranny has it's own source of oil but it is common for the seal between the tranny and the transfer case to fail. Normally that results in overfilling the tranny and draining the transfer case.
The transfer case and PTO takeoff share the same oil reserve. That is a FACT regardless of what prior posters might have said. It is possible for the PTO takeoff to show adequate oil while the transfer case is low. The transfer case is checked from the rear through a 17mm or 19mm plug near the idler shaft.
Tranny, transfer and PTO takeoff all use the same manual tranny gear oil (the thick syrupy stinky stuff). The oil level should be right to the bottom of the fill plug for all filler plugs.

Were you successful in pulling out the Silverado or did the shear pin break on the PTO winch? I got rid of my PTO because it was incapable of pulling me out if I got stuck. I'm now running a Warn electric winch.

I assume you are in North Bay, Ontario. If you are around Hamilton in the next couple of weeks PM me and I can help you out a little. We'll be leaving the Hamilton area at the end of the month so don't wait too long.

 

[Blueberries]

Thanks for the offer! I won't be in the Hamilton area for any reason. I do go down to Waterloo every couple months to visit family, but, I probably won't be down in the next couple of months.

I'll just have to find that fill plug on the T case and try to keep it full until I can fix the seal on the PTO. I'm hoping to pull out the seal, measure and photograph it, put it back and take the seal someplace to try and match it up. Hope that this works.

Cheers!
and thanks!

 

[Fantom]

Well you could look at an aftermarket cross reference (through any part store) of this seal: 90311‑35004

 

[Blueberries]

Thanks for that part number, much appreciated!

 

[Blueberries]

Oh yah, and I was able to pull out the Silverado, but only because I went back to my property and got out the tractor! I don't have a lot of experience with PTO's so I didn't think that I stressed out the winch too much since I don't know what the capabilities of it are. Good thing that I stopped pulling because, the front end of the Silverado was jammed up against the bank! I don't think that any winch could have pulled out that truck.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Oh yah, and I was able to pull out the Silverado, but only because I went back to my property and got out the tractor! I don't have a lot of experience with PTO's so I didn't think that I stressed out the winch too much since I don't know what the capabilities of it are. Good thing that I stopped pulling because, the front end of the Silverado was jammed up against the bank! I don't think that any winch could have pulled out that truck.

The PTO is known to have the shear pin fail at the most inopportune time. The shear pin is a safety device to avoid barberpoling the drive shaft or otherwise causing mechanical damage. Often folks will bore out the hole for the shear pin and install an upgraded pin or bolt to increase the pull strength. I've used the PTO on my BJ60 several times for chores around the house but each time I needed to pull myself it failed me. Maybe I had overstressed the shear pin with my previous use, I don't know but it did fail. Yes, I also always had a spare but it's not anyone's desire to lay in a mud hole to change it!

I got rid of the PTO on my BJ60 because I need to be able to rely on it to get me out of a tough spot when there is nothing else there (I can't run back to the farm for a tractor in the middle of Africa!!). The FJ45LV will keep the PTO more for it's visual value than for the likelihood I'll need it to extract the LV from a hole somewhere.

 

[blis]

The PTO is known to have the shear pin fail at the most inopportune time. The shear pin is a safety device to avoid barberpoling the drive shaft or otherwise causing mechanical damage. Often folks will bore out the hole for the shear pin and install an upgraded pin or bolt to increase the pull strength. I've used the PTO on my BJ60 several times for chores around the house but each time I needed to pull myself it failed me. Maybe I had overstressed the shear pin with my previous use, I don't know but it did fail. Yes, I also always had a spare but it's not anyone's desire to lay in a mud hole to change it!

I got rid of the PTO on my BJ60 because I need to be able to rely on it to get me out of a tough spot when there is nothing else there (I can't run back to the farm for a tractor in the middle of Africa!!). The FJ45LV will keep the PTO more for it's visual value than for the likelihood I'll need it to extract the LV from a hole somewhere.

As long as you will upgrade the shear pin (m8 bolt usually does the trick) the pto will pull ANYTHING... I've seen one used to mangle up a 10 ton pull bench without breaking the pto/winch itself..

 

[Blueberries]

Hi

thanks for all of your advice! The transfer case was indeed, low, by about 1 litre. It was sloshing into the PTO housing whenever I drove and running out the PTO seal. I bought one of those sucking devices to transfer the fluid into the T-case.

I was really surprized to hand that part number over to carquest and come up with a replacement the very next day! It doesn't look like a very difficult procedure to replace the seal, so, I'm hoping that all will go well and I'll have everything working in good order soon!

Tim

 

[cruiser_guy]

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