‘Spring rubbers’ LX570 missing link for attitude control on normal builds (non long travel) (1 Viewer)

[tbisaacs]

Follow up: I measured my rear fender heights multiple times…2 of 3 times my right rear (where I put 2 blue rubber shox) was a bit high. 1 in 3 times things were equal or the left rear was a bit high.

So I pulled one of the blues off the right rear.

I think this will mitigate my lean in the long run. If not, I might add a red (softer than blue) back there too.

I also had a driver side lean in the front (persistently since I got the car, even after replacing accumulators).

I placed the blue up front on the left…then added a black to both the right and left.

The purpose for adding the blacks up there is that after adding sliders, front bull bar, rear bumper, Wilco swing away, roof basket, tools, etc, that the vehicle seems to rock a forwards and backwards a bit excessively while hitting bumps/dips. I also suspect that with hydraulic half of the ahc system picking up the slack for all that excess weight, there’s a reduction in damping (harsher ride) due to the system, in practice, constantly being at a higher pressure…akin to always being in high suspension mode.

I’m hoping that the rubber helper springs will give some boost to the coils, help with the rocking back and forth hitting dips, and potentially reduce the pressures of the ahc system and bring back a bit of damping.

So far (5 miles in or so) it does appear that adding the blue and blacks up front improved damping…and also reduced the forward to backward rocking in dips…but these things are sometimes subtle such that a placebo effect can cause one to think they solved the problem even if they didn’t.

My experience with adding and substracting the spring rubbers in the rear: it’s a 5 minute job.

Adding them in the front: lube them up with silicone grease and cut an angle on the rubber like Grinchy references in this thread…that helps get them started. Working them in there took me about 10-15 minutes per rubber. Now that I’ve done it a couple times, the fronts will probably go in in 5-10 minutes each.

Once they’re “threaded” onto the coils, you’ll note that the overlap themselves and need to be trimmed. This can be carefully done with a box cutter while they’re installed on the vehicle.

With the black coils, you’ll also need to drill zip tie ports in them as, unlike the blue ones, the manufacturer doesn’t appear to include them on the black ones.

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heh I used Sil-glyde too. I cut the inside lip of mine pretty aggressively and they are much easier to slip in and adjust. They still seated perfectly.

 

[TeCKis300]

Some data for interested parties:

I’ve had a persistent “lean” with a slightly lower passenger rear fender than driver rear fender that I’ve measured over the past week…only about 0.5” though.

Bear in mind a normal lx570 has a taller spring on that side to counter the excess weight of the gas tank…and I replaced the driver side rear with the same extra long spring to get an equal distribution of weight left to right…and I also have a spring spacer to preload both rears take some pressure off the ahc system (I had a significant driver side dip before that mod)…so I’ve got a fresh extra long spring on the driver side and a 10 year old extra tall on the passenger…which is probably contributing to the lean. If I had a new extra long spring for the passenger rear it would probably fix it…but adding spring rubbers is easy and cheap.

So I ordered some of these blue size b rubber shocks…I installed one on the passenger rear and then drove the vehicle for a few miles to, hopefully, allow the system to equalize its pressures and see if my lean reduced.

As a result, it lifted the drivers side 0.25”, bringing the total differential left and right from 0.5” to 0.25”…so it improved things as one would expect.

Then I added a second blue rubber to the same passenger rear coil, drove to equalize, and it returned…exact left to right rear fender height….getting rid of, it seems, the lean.

So if you have a lean with your ahc (or probably even a normal non ahc suspension), you might be able to add spring rubbers to even it out…very easy and quick.

I didn’t need to trim or lubricate the rubber shocks to get them installed. Super easy in the rear.

Note:
I have had a persistent driver side front lean as well (since I got the car). I plan to add some rubbers up there when they get in from Amazon…I’ll update to see if the rear lean continues to be gone…as well as whether the front lean goes away too.

I'm not sure about this strategy.

Leveling should be done with trim packers or spacers. Using inline rubbers like this fundamentally changes spring rate. So you might get a side effect of leveling, but now you'll have different spring rates side to side.

 

[grinchy]

The purpose for adding the blacks up there is that after adding sliders, front bull bar, rear bumper, Wilco swing away, roof basket, tools, etc, that the vehicle seemed to rock forwards and backwards a bit excessively while hitting bumps/dips.

It was addressing this front/back motion that only spring rubbers really seemed to be an option for, as there aren’t uprated lx570 springs on the market for the front. I am of the opinion every lx with front end weight should give them a look.

I’ve also got some red to try in back that I hope to toss on the next non raining weekend day.

I also had to drill the black ones. I think I used three ties, one on each end and one in the middle. Drilled the holes after install.

 

[highfructose]

I'm not sure about this strategy.

Leveling should be done with trim packers or spacers. Using inline rubbers like this fundamentally changes spring rate. So you might get a side effect of leveling, but now you'll have different spring rates side to side.

My springs already seem to have uneven rates maybe?…the front left and rear right seem to have weakened over time. Maybe a decreased capacity spring is a different thing than decreased spring rate.

hopefully this fixes the lean without causing appreciable negative side effects.

I think this has reduced the rocking forward ti back enough to feel oem/not bother me. The black rubbers felt good enough that I went ahead and installed the red ones too.

 

[outlaw4shrt]

Got mine in yesterday... I like these, I like these a lot. I have the 10mm spacers up front as well.

A few observations for me: less side to side sway (I am pretty top heavy, hehe), a whole lot less nose dive under braking (pros and cons to this for my driving style), and I don't have my ahc warning light going off at turn-in anymore which is nice. It might be in my mind, but i do feel like the nose has come up a bit in all conditions, i didn't measure the front height before and after so i can't be sure, but that is what my gut is telling me, also don't have the front hunting around to settle itself out at stoplights, etc. I am back to driving around in the middle setting again, harder and softer have the desired effect which I think I appreciate the most.

Overall, A+ mod for the time spent and the cost.

 

[grinchy]

Got mine in yesterday... I like these, I like these a lot. I have the 10mm spacers up front as well.

A few observations for me: less side to side sway (I am pretty top heavy, hehe), a whole lot less nose dive under braking (pros and cons to this for my driving style), and I don't have my ahc warning light going off at turn-in anymore which is nice. It might be in my mind, but i do feel like the nose has come up a bit in all conditions, i didn't measure the front height before and after so i can't be sure, but that is what my gut is telling me, also don't have the front hunting around to settle itself out at stoplights, etc. I am back to driving around in the middle setting again, harder and softer have the desired effect which I think I appreciate the most.

Overall, A+ mod for the time spent and the cost.

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I wonder if the green might be in your future?
I’d expect the increased spring rate to give you a bit of a higher default look.

 

[outlaw4shrt]

I wonder if the green might be in your future?
I’d expect the increased spring rate to give you a bit of a higher default look.

Possibly, I'm going to ride these for a while and get a good impression and see if I need to get a step harder. I am contemplating about putting a set of blacks in the rear, but I have bags already... not sure how well the two would play together? I'd like to rely on the bags less than I do now. Once loaded, I will set my bag pressures to where I can get into high mode without issue, but I think I would like to rely on the bags less, not sure why exactly, just how I feel about it.

 

[grinchy]

Possibly, I'm going to ride these for a while and get a good impression and see if I need to get a step harder. I am contemplating about putting a set of blacks in the rear, but I have bags already... not sure how well the two would play together? I'd like to rely on the bags less than I do now. Once loaded, I will set my bag pressures to where I can get into high mode without issue, but I think I would like to rely on the bags less, not sure why exactly, just how I feel about it.

I think bags and these do about the same thing. I haven’t found the rear to be as sensitive as the front regarding additional weight added, I suspect has to do with ifs vs solid axle.
I’ve got my shortened for front blues in back and they’re a little too much for my static weight, moving to red and may just not run any at all back there, depends how the red feels.

 

[grinchy]

Put in the red (softest) on the rear. Noted that the softer compound grips the springs more and is harder to fit in between the coil without lubricant.
That explains why the black was so easy to slip in vs the blue on the front.
uncut size B was not long enough to make a full rotation of the rear spring. This is the generic red version, $12 off Amazon warehouse.

No miles yet, will report back after some driving on if I keep these or just go with no rear spring rubbers.

 

[dingoboyexplore]

I like all of this. I only have a sensor lift and no added weight. This is getting sticky'd.

 

[tbisaacs]

Been meaning to report back and text @grinchy but I’m pretty happy with the black rubbers up front.

With the added weight of my build it was way too soft but now it’s just right. I think greens would technically perfect for the weight I’ve added but I’m going to stay where I am and keep it on the softer side.

 

[highfructose]

Been meaning to report back and text @grinchy but I’m pretty happy with the black rubbers up front.

With the added weight of my build it was way too soft but now it’s just right. I think greens would technically perfect for the weight I’ve added but I’m going to stay where I am and keep it on the softer side.

Same.

I’m going to add some blacks or greens to the rear soon…I figure as long as the vehicle will go into low mode without much fuss, I’m not over spring.

 

[grinchy]

I've got the original blue pair to pass along to anyone willing to fund their ride out to you. Already cut for front LX570 spring size. Drop me a pm if you want them.

 

[grinchy]

Red better in the rear than blue. Markedly less stiff, I knew it was better by the time I’d gotten off the driveway and onto the street. I’ve got a curb in my driveway. It’s a Seattle thing. Further 40 min city street drive confirms initial impression.
It went from race style stiff to everyday stiff. Considering removing them entirely, but I think it’ll be a touch too soft in back.

 

[highfructose]

I’m

Red better in the rear than blue. Markedly less stiff, I knew it was better by the time I’d gotten off the driveway and onto the street. I’ve got a curb in my driveway. It’s a Seattle thing. Further 40 min city street drive confirms initial impression.
It went from race style stiff to everyday stiff. Considering removing them entirely, but I think it’ll be a touch too soft in back.

i was checking my rear spring rubbers and, it appears, they impart no pressure on the spring at neutral height…which means, I think, that any assist it’s giving is only under compression cycles…which means I think the ahc/hydraulic portion of the suspension is still bearing the totality of the excess weight from bumpers and sliders.

It makes sense too because the front rubbers are a bit of a bear to slide in…the rear aren’t at all.

I noticed during A recent heavily laden road trip that t he ahc system got a little goofy when I tried to put it in high mode…it struggled for a while and then gave up and said it was staying in neutral height.

So I’m going to try installing a black set of b+’s (one size up) in the rear…hopefully they’re a little tough to insert and aren’t floppy under load…which would be an indicator that they’re “helping” the coil spring and thus taking some pressure off the hydraulic/ahc system.

 

[grinchy]

I’m

i was checking my rear spring rubbers and, it appears, they impart no pressure on the spring at neutral height…which means, I think, that any assist it’s giving is only under compression cycles…which means I think the ahc/hydraulic portion of the suspension is still bearing the totality of the excess weight from bumpers and sliders.

It makes sense too because the front rubbers are a bit of a bear to slide in…the rear aren’t at all.

I noticed during A recent heavily laden road trip that t he ahc system got a little goofy when I tried to put it in high mode…it struggled for a while and then gave up and said it was staying in neutral height.

So I’m going to try installing a black set of b+’s (one size up) in the rear…hopefully they’re a little tough to insert and aren’t floppy under load…which would be an indicator that they’re “helping” the coil spring and thus taking some pressure off the hydraulic/ahc system.

I have a rear bumper and small aux tank and vertical bike rack back there so start at 200 lb more than stock, before my family of 5 gets involved, but agree the impact on the rear is much less pronounced.

The b+ are a bit shorter. You may need two on each coil to get a full wrap.

 

[grinchy]

I noticed during A recent heavily laden road trip that t he ahc system got a little goofy when I tried to put it in high mode…it struggled for a while and then gave up and said it was staying in neutral height.

Any other symptoms? I’d think low would be affected before H.

 

[highfructose]

Any other symptoms? I’d think low would be affected before H.

When I had a black and red on the front, it would occasionally stutter and settle itself for longer than it should going into low.

It also felt better (more oem, less stiff) with only a black up there.

So I took the red off the front and moved it to the back…that’s when I realized that at neutral height, the size b’s are loose back there …so in the rear there needs to be a different size if you want a static helper.

I ordered the “b+“ and “a” black ones to see how they fit on the back.

When fully laden (probably 300+ lbs of coolers, food, and ice), bags for a 9 day trip, 3 people, 2 dogs…plus the sliders bumpers, swingaway, winch, etc, the truck didn’t really want to get into high…which makes sense if you think about it…

when I had a sensor lift and would try to get it to go into high, about half the time, it would try to get into high and then decide though it did lift itself, that it didn’t get high enough for it to consider itself in high mode…so the dash would just say it was in neutral mode.

I would expect that the equivalent was happening when the vehicle was so heavily loaded…pressures were high back there but the vehicle couldn’t quite get itself as high as it thought it should be within its preprogrammed amount of time it thought was reasonable.

Thicker rubbers will likely help it get into high a bit (if they’re thick enough)…but more likely they’ll reduce static neutral pressures by giving the rear coils a bit of help at normal height…which will, I hope, increase the damping a bit.

 

[grinchy]

The left / us driver coil definitely measures B+, but when looked at the spec these were shorter/tighter curved.

I guess we’re both now on black front and red rear.

 

[highfructose]

The left / us driver coil definitely measures B+, but when looked at the spec these were shorter/tighter curved.

I guess we’re both now on black front and red rear.

I think you mean size b for the front?

B is loose for the rear coils.
B+ doesn’t seem to fit the rear coils either…too small/loose.

When the size a arrives I’ll see if they’re a good fit for the rear

If someone can point me to a walk through on how to check ahc pressures, I can test what the right size does to reduce ahc pressures.