Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (1 Viewer)

[Relot76]

Great Thread -- my thanks to all who resurrected it! I was so pleased when a new speedo cable fixed my '69 FJ40's speedometer and odometer. Then, after about 45 miles, the odometer stopped working while the speedometer continues to work fine. I dread pulling the instrument cluster again since I have now painted my dash and don't want to scratch the restoration. Two questions:
1) Any helpful tips on the best way to remove the instrument cluster to get to the odometer and clean it as described in this thread?
2) Some mention it is also good to lubricate the speedo cable to stabilize the speed needle. Do I pull the entire cable out of its housing and apply silicon grease to the cable? Is there a better way to do this?

 

[iananderson]

Great Thread -- my thanks to all who resurrected it! I was so pleased when a new speedo cable fixed my '69 FJ40's speedometer and odometer. Then, after about 45 miles, the odometer stopped working while the speedometer continues to work fine. I dread pulling the instrument cluster again since I have now painted my dash and don't want to scratch the restoration. Two questions:
1) Any helpful tips on the best way to remove the instrument cluster to get to the odometer and clean it as described in this thread?
2) Some mention it is also good to lubricate the speedo cable to stabilize the speed needle. Do I pull the entire cable out of its housing and apply silicon grease to the cable? Is there a better way to do this?

Hi! Now i am the furthest from anyone on here to listen to....but.... i have mine pulled apart as we speak and had the same issue. My speedo cable just snapped and was full of what appeared to be engine oil or something very similar. My speedo bounced all over the place after 20mph so not sure if oil helps in that way. When the cable broke it completely saturated my cluster and my odometer didn't work anyway so i have just stripped it apart. There is a small gear/worm gear that is completely worn down and all others seem to still work just very stiff after years of not moving. It could possibly be that gear if your odometer has stopped?

 

[Relot76]

Hi! Now i am the furthest from anyone on here to listen to....but.... i have mine pulled apart as we speak and had the same issue. My speedo cable just snapped and was full of what appeared to be engine oil or something very similar. My speedo bounced all over the place after 20mph so not sure if oil helps in that way. When the cable broke it completely saturated my cluster and my odometer didn't work anyway so i have just stripped it apart. There is a small gear/worm gear that is completely worn down and all others seem to still work just very stiff after years of not moving. It could possibly be that gear if your odometer has stopped?View attachment 3219434View attachment 3219438View attachment 3219440

Thanks! Please let me know any more tips you learn as you reassemble and reinstall the cluster. When you reattach the cable to the speedometer, it is very tempting to put the cluster in place and pull it forward for easy access, but I learned that you need to install the cluster and tighten the screws before attaching the speedo cable. Otherwise, you run the risk of putting a small kink in the cable and the speedometer will not work properly (learned from experience -- I let someone else instal a cable once).

 

[Stubby]

Question on fuel gauge compatibility on my 73 only cluster (looks like the 72-79 on the front but has the early connections on the back - no circuit board or barrel connector).

Looking at the table, I need either 83310-60012, or maybe 83310-60013......but I can only find 83310-60014 from the 4th-gen cluster in stock anywhere online.

Does anyone know if 83310-60014 will work in my 73 cluster (physically fit in the hole, and also has the 7V regulator to feed the temp gauge)?

Thanks....

 

[JVZii]

Question on fuel gauge compatibility on my 73 only cluster (looks like the 72-79 on the front but has the early connections on the back - no circuit board or barrel connector).

Looking at the table, I need either 83310-60012, or maybe 83310-60013......but I can only find 83310-60014 from the 4th-gen cluster in stock anywhere online.

Does anyone know if 83310-60014 will work in my 73 cluster (physically fit in the hole, and also has the 7V regulator to feed the temp gauge)?

Thanks....

View attachment 3394052

The 73 has a metal body gauge. It is the same as the later plastic bodies ones from a fit and function standpoint. I don't think the ohms are different between the 2 either.

The plastic bodies do need a different spacer than the steel. The plastic gauges are not as thick from front to back. So the spacer is wider.

I have steel gauges if you want to go that route. Send me a pm if you want to go that route.

 

[germaneighter]

I have a 4th generation cluster in a 1977. (PO had installed a cobbled mess of a 1979 wiring harness along with the '79 cluster) I've replaced the wiring harness with a correct '77 harness.
If I change the amp gauge to a 3rd gen 30 Amp and I change the Coolant Temp sender to a 4th gen should all other cluster functions operate?
thanks

 

[JVZii]

I have a 4th generation cluster in a 1977. (PO had installed a cobbled mess of a 1979 wiring harness along with the '79 cluster) I've replaced the wiring harness with a correct '77 harness.
If I change the amp gauge to a 3rd gen 30 Amp and I change the Coolant Temp sender to a 4th gen should all other cluster functions operate?
thanks

You cannot really do that. The posts on a 78 amp gauge are a little narrower and won't drop into a 79. Plus you have to bypass the circuit board.

Not for sure on the temp gauge but you will likely end up with mismatched faces if you start trading years on gauges. Pre 78 gauges had a line at the bottom. 79+ did not.

If your interested Smiling Jack's Cluster service has a freshly serviced 78 cluster that is ready to simply install and go. I also offer top dollar for trade ins . If you are interested send me a pm

Jack.

 

[bj40man]

So heres a new question:
If I install a high output alternator on any LC with the earlier type 30 amp instrument (the one that the instrument itself is the shunt) am I at risk of burning the amp meter? Say I put in a 95 amp alternator?

 

[hobbes]

If you try to charge a dead battery, yes. The battery demand is what limits the current.

 

[bj40man]

If you try to charge a dead battery, yes. The battery demand is what limits the current.

Great to know. Thanks for the quick reply! Would there be a way to limit the amount of charge, as to avoid burning it, if say someone else is driving it?

 

[jhsmith]

I realize there is a minor change to wiring. Does anyone sell a voltmeter that fits into the spot for the current meter? Specifically for a '75 FJ.

 

[Engineer8000]

I replaced the ammeter with a oil pressure gauge and made a circuit to drive it.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

a somewhat recent 1 man party


i had phun

 

[ToyotaMatt]

some moments i recall clearly

 

[4x4 Station Wagon]

I have tried for days I promise! I can not find why when switching from a 30-0-30 to a 50-0-50 an external shunt cannot just be installed behind the cluster reconnecting the existing large white wires and then the shunt be connected to the gauge. What the heck am I missing here besides that it isnt ideal because all of the current is traveling clear to your gauge cluster or in this case behind it and back out which obviously isnt the safest option. BUT, why won’t it work??? If it will work and it was covered in heat shrink would it be best to use a 50amp 75mv or a 50amp 50mv?

 

[4x4 Station Wagon]

 

[ToyotaMatt]

I have tried for days I promise! I can not find why when switching from a 30-0-30 to a 50-0-50 an external shunt cannot just be installed behind the cluster reconnecting the existing large white wires and then the shunt be connected to the gauge. What the heck am I missing here besides that it isnt ideal because all of the current is traveling clear to your gauge cluster or in this case behind it and back out which obviously isnt the safest option. BUT, why won’t it work??? If it will work and it was covered in heat shrink would it be best to use a 50amp 75mv or a 50amp 50mv?

DO NOT DO THIS


your later so called 50A meter gauge is actually a simple 12V meter , like a pepboys 52mm autometer pod gauges for example


if u di this that later cluster WILL explode on you and catch fire inside itself ,and that's if your lucky , you can turn your entire cowl wire harness into ashes in a metric second ,,,,,


i simply personally choose to delete the 50 amp meter , and not use it , i lop off the 50+ year old rings , use a 3M yellow heat shrink crimp marine grade butt connector , wrap in 2 layers of ANCHOR MARINE grade heat shrink too

then apply a 4" section of 1/2 inch rubber coolant hose over that , tape the Sh#T out if it and then stuff it as far back into the cavity behind the cluster as possible ,,

i have never had a issue using my time tested step by steps above , its safe and permanent for life too


think on the WHY the BLUE CIRCUT board on the backs of both the old 30A and new 50A YAZAKI cluster meters covers up on pair of the studs you are talking about and NOT the other one

its bare steel ,


- what happens when a GROUP 27 770 CCA battery full battery B+ current flow touches bare NEG - grounded TOYOTA steel ?
\

 

[45Dougal]

DO NOT DO THIS


your later so called 50A meter gauge is actually a simple 12V meter , like a pepboys 52mm autometer pod gauges for example


if u di this that later cluster WILL explode on you and catch fire inside itself ,and that's if your lucky , you can turn your entire cowl wire harness into ashes in a metric second ,,,,,

Sorry Matt;
I'll have to disagree with this one.
This is inaccurate and scaremongery.
Maybe you didn't have time to read the post?
He asks why you can't add an external shunt to the 50A meter to make it perform as the 30A meter does.

The 50A gauge is a Volt meter as 4x4SW clearly understands, but is not a 12V meter as you state. If full scale deflection was at 12V, then you'd be dropping 12V across the remote shunt, leaving zero volts for your truck which is clearly not the case.
FSD is actually few milli-Volts, and the actuall value should be determined by testing it. This is why they die when 12V is applied across it.

The correct answer is that there's NO REASON why you can't do this, however you do need to be a little careful on a few points.
Firstly, you need to correctly size the shunt for the meter. Test the meter to see what voltage is needed to achieve full scale deflection, and then use that voltage divided by 50A to find the shunt resistance.
Secondly you need to make sure that the shunt is properly insulated to avoid a risk of shorts (note that the original design leaves the screw terminals uninsulated and very close to the grounded metal surround, so you don't need to go crazy, just be sensible, and check that you have a fusible link). Remember that over-insulating wires actually has the negative effect of derating them due to their inability to lose heat.
Finally, you might consider adding a small fuse between each side of the meter and the shunt - this avoids any possibility of dumping 50A onto the PCB.
Alternatively, or additionally, you could do this using an inline resistor of around 1K on both sides.

Good luck with this - I think there are quite a few people who might appreciate this type of solution.

Search for current sense resistors on somewhere like Mouser to get a full range of values.

 

[4x4 Station Wagon]

Sorry Matt;
I'll have to disagree with this one.
This is inaccurate and scaremongery.
Maybe you didn't have time to read the post?
He asks why you can't add an external shunt to the 50A meter to make it perform as the 30A meter does.

The 50A gauge is a Volt meter as 4x4SW clearly understands, but is not a 12V meter as you state. If full scale deflection was at 12V, then you'd be dropping 12V across the remote shunt, leaving zero volts for your truck which is clearly not the case.
FSD is actually few milli-Volts, and the actuall value should be determined by testing it. This is why they die when 12V is applied across it.

The correct answer is that there's NO REASON why you can't do this, however you do need to be a little careful on a few points.
Firstly, you need to correctly size the shunt for the meter. Test the meter to see what voltage is needed to achieve full scale deflection, and then use that voltage divided by 50A to find the shunt resistance.
Secondly you need to make sure that the shunt is properly insulated to avoid a risk of shorts (note that the original design leaves the screw terminals uninsulated and very close to the grounded metal surround, so you don't need to go crazy, just be sensible, and check that you have a fusible link). Remember that over-insulating wires actually has the negative effect of derating them due to their inability to lose heat.
Finally, you might consider adding a small fuse between each side of the meter and the shunt - this avoids any possibility of dumping 50A onto the PCB.
Alternatively, or additionally, you could do this using an inline resistor of around 1K on both sides.

Good luck with this - I think there are quite a few people who might appreciate this type of solution.

Search for current sense resistors on somewhere like Mouser to get a full range of values.

Thanks. I agree the importance of making sure the shunt is protected from grounding out! I was thinking a fuse on the powered side to the guage but heck why not both sides for added reassurance (will do). Now if anyone has the brain power/knowledge to advise what is needed. The shunts in my photo I actually purchased and have. 50 amp 50 and a 75. Part of my issue is I just guessed thinking since the guage was 50 i should get a 50 amp shunt and then there were options on the mv??? I completely and openly admit I do not yet understand the mv…

 

[45Dougal]

Thanks. I agree the importance of making sure the shunt is protected from grounding out! I was thinking a fuse on the powered side to the guage but heck why not both sides for added reassurance (will do). Now if anyone has the brain power/knowledge to advise what is needed. The shunts in my photo I actually purchased and have. 50 amp 50 and a 75. Part of my issue is I just guessed thinking since the guage was 50 i should get a 50 amp shunt and then there were options on the mv??? I completely and openly admit I do not yet understand the mv…

Well if you have them already then you can start by measuring the resistance of them with a meter set to Ohms.
My 50A gauge was fried when it arrived, but I managed to put some volts across it today, and I'm actually measuring about 2V at full scale - it is pretty trashed though so not sure I trust this.
2V / 50A = 0.04 Ohms
If your shunt resistance is larger than this, then you'll get a bigger voltage drop across it; you will fry the gauge and you might also have ignition problems due to the lower line voltage, so avoid that.
If your shunt is lower resistance then it will work fine, but the gauge just won't move so far.

Yes, put s fuse on both sides - either could provide 50A+ in a fault condition.

If you're not at all sure about anything, then best not to do it though of course