Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[OregonLC]

Is it that EV batteries are killing the environment or that the current mining locations are in countries that choose to not regulate? Most things can be done with environmental respect. It's just that it's more expensive to do the work in an environmentally friendly way.

So I don't think it's correct to say carte blanche that the process of creating EV components is environmentally harmful. Rather, it's that we're prioritizing cost over clean. A $100k Prius probably wouldn't sell, even with $6 gas.

If we're serious about cleaning up the world then this needs to extend beyond the border. Remote pollution is still pollution.

 

[TeCKis300]

Does Charles H. Duell come to mind?

I do believe in hydrogen but the application in passenger cars is misdirected today, particularly in the states, and competing technologies have surpassed it.

In Japan, lack of natural resources to create batteries, and locality of infrastructure, helps hydrogen make more sense. In the States, not so much. The inception of hydrogen was also in a time when batteries did not have the necessary storage capacity, but that is clearly no longer the case.

That said, hydrogen could make a lot of sense in commercial, HD trucks, and even larger heavy equipment, where energy density matter a lot more, and infrastructure can be localized. Diesel may be one of those fuels that it winds up surplanting.

 

[Adrenaline6]

Lets face reality though. The real reason EV's and green energy is being pushed so hard is because the "right people" have invested in it and stand to make a lot of money if done so. So they will do all they can power wise to make it happen. This is the way things are done and have always been done. How good or bad for the environment it is or isn't is totally irrelevant.

Studies and data that groups come up with are almost never independent. They get their grants funded from someone and if they want to keep funding, their "findings" coincide with the funder. There is so much bs and doctored data out there, it's ridiculous.

"Better" tech and "techniques" get buried all the time due to influence and money. To think that everything being pushed by the government is "good" is just being plain naïve. Sure, the government never does things that are bad for people....ever.

In the end, get what you want...drive on...that is what true freedom is about. Now considering a nationwide ban on gas stoves...that is just effing stupid and totalitarian.

 

[1Maverick]

I always amusing that only the rich were able to afford cars for the first 10-20 years of their existence while all the regular folks and poors roads around in horses but now the only people I know with horses are rich AF.

Funny but true.

Lets face reality though. The real reason EV's and green energy is being pushed so hard is because the "right people" have invested in it and stand to make a lot of money if done so. So they will do all they can power wise to make it happen. This is the way things are done and have always been done. How good or bad for the environment it is or isn't is totally irrelevant.

Studies and data that groups come up with are almost never independent. They get their grants funded from someone and if they want to keep funding, their "findings" coincide with the funder. There is so much bs and doctored data out there, it's ridiculous.

"Better" tech and "techniques" get buried all the time due to influence and money. To think that everything being pushed by the government is "good" is just being plain naïve. Sure, the government never does things that are bad for people....ever.

In the end, get what you want...drive on...that is what true freedom is about. Now considering a nationwide ban on gas stoves...that is just effing stupid and totalitarian.

yep! Can you imagine the Govt. looking to ban gas stoves, so everyone is required to use electric only stoves?Easy way to control everyone’s power needs through one utility power source(endless brown outs). Good thing we have an amazing electricAl grid. Oh wait…

Gas-stove ban: As U.S. moves closer to action, cooks want to know, 'What's the real risk?'

The U.S. could be edging nearer to a ban on new gas stoves, if the interest of a federal consumer safety commission is any indication.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[OregonLC]

Lets face reality though. The real reason EV's and green energy is being pushed so hard is because the "right people" have invested in it and stand to make a lot of money if done so. So they will do all they can power wise to make it happen. This is the way things are done and have always been done. How good or bad for the environment it is or isn't is totally irrelevant.

I perceive the opposite. EV's (along with much other Green ideology) have become ideal political fodder. We have a political system that has moved way beyond facts to ideals and emotions. It doesn't matter what the truth is, what matters is how the position resonates with the electorate. There are two giant corporations (RNC and DNC) that benefit from selling ideas like the wholesale shift to electrical propulsion. Doesn't matter how truthful, just how it polls. This is true on both the left and the right.

Corporate America is only capitalizing on this environment. Toyota (as well as all others) is in the mobility solution space and are (somewhat) agnostic to the ICE / EV issue. Whether they sell an EV or a V8 diesel is a down-chain byproduct of the sales environment, not the other way around. Toyota isn't competing in an ICE vs EV world, they're competing in a Toyota vs Chevy (or whatever) world. They only need to be better at whichever tech sells cars.

This is why it's so very important to have free an open discussions where no one 'right' person is allowed to audit. And why we all need to be very diligent to avoid identity politics (in which your party becomes your identity) where the only thing that matters is the views of your team. We can only progress when we seek the truth and not the win. The consumers (voters, buyers) should be the world's conscious and corporations the efficiency drivers. Woke corporations don't excel at either.

 

[1Maverick]

I perceive the opposite. EV's (along with much other Green ideology) have become ideal political fodder. We have a political system that has moved way beyond facts to ideals and emotions. It doesn't matter what the truth is, what matters is how the position resonates with the electorate. There are two giant corporations (RNC and DNC) that benefit from selling ideas like the wholesale shift to electrical propulsion. Doesn't matter how truthful, just how it polls. This is true on both the left and the right.

Corporate America is only capitalizing on this environment. Toyota (as well as all others) is in the mobility solution space and are (somewhat) agnostic to the ICE / EV issue. Whether they sell an EV or a V8 diesel is a down-chain byproduct of the sales environment, not the other way around. Toyota isn't competing in an ICE vs EV world, they're competing in a Toyota vs Chevy (or whatever) world. They only need to be better at whichever tech sells cars.

This is why it's so very important to have free an open discussions where no one 'right' person is allowed to audit. And why we all need to be very diligent to avoid identity politics (in which your party becomes your identity) where the only thing that matters is the views of your team. We can only progress when we seek the truth and not the win. The consumers (voters, buyers) should be the world's conscious and corporations the efficiency drivers. Woke corporations don't excel at either.

We are essentially screwed no doubt. To sum up this thread...unless our greed “the World” is brought under control, we will destroy the planet we are living on; and in so doing we will destroy our own human race.

 

[04UZJ100]

We are essentially screwed no doubt. To sum up this thread...unless our greed “the World” is brought under control, we will destroy the planet we are living on; and in so doing we will destroy our own human race.

Ok Al Gore.

 

[1Maverick]

Ok Al Gore.

He‘s the worst of all. The world is full of hypocrites including myself. I love rolling coal

 

[Adrenaline6]

I perceive the opposite. EV's (along with much other Green ideology) have become ideal political fodder. We have a political system that has moved way beyond facts to ideals and emotions. It doesn't matter what the truth is, what matters is how the position resonates with the electorate. There are two giant corporations (RNC and DNC) that benefit from selling ideas like the wholesale shift to electrical propulsion. Doesn't matter how truthful, just how it polls. This is true on both the left and the right.







Corporate America is only capitalizing on this environment. Toyota (as well as all others) is in the mobility solution space and are (somewhat) agnostic to the ICE / EV issue. Whether they sell an EV or a V8 diesel is a down-chain byproduct of the sales environment, not the other way around. Toyota isn't competing in an ICE vs EV world, they're competing in a Toyota vs Chevy (or whatever) world. They only need to be better at whichever tech sells cars.







This is why it's so very important to have free an open discussions where no one 'right' person is allowed to audit. And why we all need to be very diligent to avoid identity politics (in which your party becomes your identity) where the only thing that matters is the views of your team. We can only progress when we seek the truth and not the win. The consumers (voters, buyers) should be the world's conscious and corporations the efficiency drivers. Woke corporations don't excel at either.

We are in agreement for the most part. It's just your viewpoint hasn't panned back enough to incorporate mine.

How something polls is controlled by the media and they control the media. If they want something to poll, they make it so. These powerful people are not going to let the nilly willy public opinion control what they do or how they do it. Public opinion can switch in an instant. They sway public opinion and make "their way" the popular way and the way it will save you. Fear sells and they use it well. They have been doing this successfully for awhile now.

i.e. Rockefeller was brilliant at it. He used misinformation to take over the pharmaceutical industry.

How Rockefeller Created the Business of Western Medicine – Acupuncture & Dry Needling, Santa Monica, CA

meridianhealthclinic.com

Sadly, your idea of consumers and voters being the world's conscious is admirable, but a pipe dream. People for the most part are too stupid/lazy and content, and are more worried about their social media and other inconsequential things to worry about being conscious. They are led by the media like mindless sheep and are absolutely willing and happy to do so.

"Internet and data connection...check
Starbucks coffee in the morning...check
Getting some likes on their social media...check
Being told you are a good person if you think this certain way and do certain things...check.

Life is perfect and I am awesome."

 

[bloc]

Where’s the 200-series tech discussion?

 

[1Maverick]

We are in agreement for the most part. It's just your viewpoint hasn't panned back enough to incorporate mine.

How something polls is controlled by the media and they control the media. If they want something to poll, they make it so. These powerful people are not going to let the nilly willy public opinion control what they do or how they do it. Public opinion can switch in an instant. They sway public opinion and make "their way" the popular way and the way it will save you. Fear sells and they use it well. They have been doing this successfully for awhile now.

i.e. Rockefeller was brilliant at it. He used misinformation to take over the pharmaceutical industry.

How Rockefeller Created the Business of Western Medicine – Acupuncture & Dry Needling, Santa Monica, CA

meridianhealthclinic.com

Sadly, your idea of consumers and voters being the world's conscious is admirable, but a pipe dream. People for the most part are too stupid/lazy and content, and are more worried about their social media and other inconsequential things to worry about being conscious. They are led by the media like mindless sheep and are absolutely willing and happy to do so.

"Internet and data connection...check
Starbucks coffee in the morning...check
Getting some likes on their social media...check
Being told you are a good person if you think this certain way and do certain things...check.

Life is perfect and I am awesome."

 

[Specialeyes]

This got me thinking. Where are the Lego Land Cruisers?

 

[Artie]

People for the most part are too stupid/lazy and content, and are more worried about their social media and other inconsequential things to worry about being conscious. They are led by the media like mindless sheep and are absolutely willing and happy to do so.

"Internet and data connection...check
Starbucks coffee in the morning...check
Getting some likes on their social media...check
Being told you are a good person if you think this certain way and do certain things...check.

Life is perfect and I am awesome."

Our largest commodity is ignorance, either willful or influenced from leadership from top down im education, media, and tv and it’s a goldmine for so many in the tech, media, and leadership sectors.

I still feel positive about the future but I battle the black pill from time to time.

 

[Artie]

Electric is likely the future but it’s a big advance or 2 away. Idk if that’s hot swapping batteries or graphene or aliens arrive to share tech. It’s not ready yet but I feel like it’s being crammed down our driveways and into our garages… and now they are coming for my gas stove. Cold dead hands on that one for me, it will obliterate the restaurant industry as well… too much collateral damage.

 

[40Man]

I read that if the US converts to electric at the rapid pace CA and WA desire, precious metals needed for batteries would become scare lomg before oil does.

Unless supercapacitors (which can recharge really fast) become viable with long range, or ev's become more efficient with range and charging electric won't be my primary vehicle for sure. Don't get me wrong, electrics are great, just too many limitations for me on current models.

Hydrogen is more inefficient than electric from production to delivery, but can be made at the fueling station, making it potentially more efficient than gas. The Toyota Mirai went almost 900 miles on a tank. With the way people drive in the USA, hydrogen could be a very attractive option for many drivers. BMW has started making hydrogen cars, and most automakers are looking at it (VW and Tesla are all in on electric).

For trucks or tow rigs especially, hydrogen may be more user friendly, and does not have the limited resource issue electric currently does.


www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/musk-calls-hydrogen-fuel-cells-stupid-but-tech-may-threaten-tesla.html

 

[Tex68w]

The gas stove thing is absolute silliness.

 

[04UZJ100]

I read that if the US converts to electric at the rapid pace CA and WA desire, precious metals needed for batteries would become scare lomg before oil does.

Unless supercapacitors (which can recharge really fast) become viable with long range, or ev's become more efficient with range and charging electric won't be my primary vehicle for sure. Don't get me wrong, electrics are great, just too many limitations for me on current models.

Hydrogen is more inefficient than electric from production to delivery, but can be made at the fueling station, making it potentially more efficient than gas. The Toyota Mirai went almost 900 miles on a tank. With the way people drive in the USA, hydrogen could be a very attractive option for many drivers. BMW has started making hydrogen cars, and most automakers are looking at it (VW and Tesla are all in on electric).

For trucks or tow rigs especially, hydrogen may be more user friendly, and does not have the limited resource issue electric currently does.


www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/musk-calls-hydrogen-fuel-cells-stupid-but-tech-may-threaten-tesla.html

The world will still run on fossil fuels for decades to come. Period.

 

[ToothDr]

Where’s the 200-series tech discussion?

Bingo. This thread needed to be sent to chat a long time ago.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Lets face reality though. The real reason EV's and green energy is being pushed so hard is because the "right people" have invested in it and stand to make a lot of money if done so. So they will do all they can power wise to make it happen. This is the way things are done and have always been done. How good or bad for the environment it is or isn't is totally irrelevant.

Studies and data that groups come up with are almost never independent. They get their grants funded from someone and if they want to keep funding, their "findings" coincide with the funder. There is so much bs and doctored data out there, it's ridiculous.

"Better" tech and "techniques" get buried all the time due to influence and money. To think that everything being pushed by the government is "good" is just being plain naïve. Sure, the government never does things that are bad for people....ever.

In the end, get what you want...drive on...that is what true freedom is about. Now considering a nationwide ban on gas stoves...that is just effing stupid and totalitarian.

100%

 

[bj70bc]

This was a good read, and reassures me that there are sensible people with nuanced opinions out there thinking about these things...