Alignment specs after lift (1 Viewer)

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Oct 28, 2014
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Upstate NY
So, I had my 1.75” front/1.5” lift rear installed. Since, I’ve had two different Toyota dealers complete alignments and today the alignment sheet given to me still doesn’t seem good regarding caster. Should I get another one somewhere else? I’m limited locally with shops that have any idea how to do an alignment with a lift. Thoughts on these specs?

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First off, how does it feel?
Pulls left/right?
Too heavy steering?
Dodgy and twitchy feeling?
If you're not having any of the issues above, for, I'd call it good assuming your rig is sitting straight and normal.
 
Did your lift include adjustable upper control arms? With the lift you will be lucky to get anymore than like one degree positive caster out of your lower control arm eccentrics. Spec for caster is between 2’30” to 3’ degrees right?
 
So, I’ve only driven it around town and so far it feels ok. But I’ve yet to drive it on the highway which I know needs to happen. However, based on my lift and research/advice received, I didn’t think I would need an UCA to dial it in. It appears that maybe now I will need UCA’s to get it within spec based on the Toyota mechanics summary. He took 2.5 hours to try and dial it in today and the attachment I included is the closest he could get.

With that said, other than SPC, are there any non-adjustable UCA’s that can fix my issue? I’m afraid that adjustable UCA’s like SPC will be difficult for my local shops due to never having installed them.
 
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So, I’ve only driven it around town and so far it feels ok. But I’ve yet to drive it on the highway which I know needs to happen. However, based on my lift and research/advice received, I didn’t think I would need an UCA to dial it in. It appears that maybe now I will need UCA’s to get it within spec based on the Toyota mechanics summary. He took 2.5 hours to try and dial it in today and the attachment I included is the closest he could get.

With that said, other than SPC, are there any non-adjustable UCA’s that can fix my issue? I’m afraid that adjustable UCA’s like SPC will be difficult for my local shops due to never having installed them.
No, your first stop is to a competent alignment shop. If you look at the printout, your alignment tech moved your front right caster from just under the lower end of spec to horribly out of spec. They actually made caster worse. That means he actually moved the lower ball joint backwards in the wheel well (by rotating the lower control arm the wrong way). It should be moved forward. He may have done this to keep the camber in spec, but not likely. The driver side lower control arm needs to be moved forward as well, too. I know your options are limited, but you may want to find some time to chat with some repair shops that have their own alignment machines, etc. If you keep your alignment as is, and add an aftermarket UCA, you are going to push that tire into the rear plastic of the fender well and rub on the pinch weld, because the aftermarket UCA will move your upper ball joint backwards as well in an attempt to fix caster.

But I guess first of all, hop on the highway and run it up to 80 and see how many hands it takes on the steering wheel to keep it from drifting.
 
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No, your first stop is to a competent alignment shop. If you look at the printout, your alignment tech moved your front right caster from just under the lower end of spec to horribly out of spec. They actually made caster worse. That means he actually moved the lower ball joint backwards in the wheel well (by rotating the lower control arm the wrong way). It should be moved forward. He may have done this to keep the camber in spec, but not likely. The driver side lower control arm needs to be moved forward as well, too. I know your options are limited, but you may want to find some time to chat with some repair shops that have their own alignment machines, etc. If you keep your alignment as is, and add an aftermarket UCA, you are going to push that tire into the rear plastic of the fender well and rub on the pinch weld, because the aftermarket UCA will move your upper ball joint backwards as well in an attempt to fix caster.

But I guess first of all, hop on the highway and run it up to 80 and see how many hands it takes on the steering wheel to keep it from drifting.

Please help me understand the caster specs you mentioned here, as I'm also learning here. The alignment printout shows the right front caster going from 1.7 to 0.4, however you mention that this new value (0.4) is 'horribly out of spec'. My layman interpretation would be that it is 'more in spec', is that incorrect? What would be an 'in spec' caster value in this case?
 
The diagram shows the caster spec is 2.8 to 3.8 degrees. Caster determines the 'self centering' force. More caster = more self centering which means more stability, especially noticeable at high speed. .04 might drive poorly at speed.
 
The diagram shows the caster spec is 2.8 to 3.8 degrees. Caster determines the 'self centering' force. More caster = more self centering which means more stability, especially noticeable at high speed. .04 might drive poorly at speed.
ahhh ok, thanks for the info
 
The diagram shows the caster spec is 2.8 to 3.8 degrees. Caster determines the 'self centering' force. More caster = more self centering which means more stability, especially noticeable at high speed. .04 might drive poorly at speed.
For an easy mental picture of caster, think of a front bicycle fork, wheel and the head tube, the tube attached to the frame that the fork goes through.
Now imagine the head tube almost vertical. This will make the bike very twitchy. These angles are commonly used on race/performance bicycles, super sport and race motorcycles because they turn very easily. When I was doing bi/triathlons I upgraded my bike from a very low end bike (couple hundred dollars) to a bike that cost over $4,000. When I got on it, the head angle was so steep and aggressive that if I just glanced in a direction, I was already in the turn.

Now the opposite. Take that head tube and angle it so the front wheel is further out in front. For the sake of extreme visual, think of chopper motorcycles with the extended forks. Those bikes have very heavy handling but at the same time very stable at high speeds, much like drag bikes. I used to have super sport motorcycles (and may again some day :)). A friend of mine went to the hospital on his V-Max motorcycle, which was a very powerful bike in it's day. As it turned out he had to spend the night and didn't want to leave the bike in the parking lot so knowing that I rode high performance bikes, he asked me to come by and ride his bike home, which I did. I got on that bike and when I rolled the throttle all the way back to get on the freeway, it was so powerful, my fingers almost started loosing grip (love it!). But (being used to my super sports) when I tried to change lanes, because the V-Max are more a cruiser style with a relaxed angle fork (and heavier), I felt like I had to put my weight into it just to get it to change lanes compared to my super sport bikes.

Hope this helps how castor has an impact on steering in a car.
 
Ok, went to an alignment shop today where the guy is a 43 year experienced technician. He has done many lifts, builds, and understands caster and adjustable UCA‘s like SPC. After looking at my setup, he could not get caster anywhere close to spec and recommended I get the SPC’S which not only he will install but then dial in to the 3.7-4.1 spec range. Looking back, I should have done UCA’s while installing my lift. We live and learn. Hopefully all is well after this coming Monday.
 
Something is not right here. Yes, adjustable (or fixed) UCAs will add a few degrees of caster - but - why can't anyone adjust your LCA cam bolts to get closer to spec? And you're likely to rub in the rear when you move the upper ball joint back that far. Any way to roll underneath and snap some pictures of your cam bolts?
 
Something is not right here. Yes, adjustable (or fixed) UCAs will add a few degrees of caster - but - why can't anyone adjust your LCA cam bolts to get closer to spec? And you're likely to rub in the rear when you move the upper ball joint back that far. Any way to roll underneath and snap some pictures of your cam bolts?
Yeah, I’m really confused too. I can’t understand it. They are telling me the lower cam bolts are maxed out to the “ears” and can’t be adjusted any further to allow more caster. This is the same response from 3 different shops, 2 being Toyota dealers. I will snap some pics in the morning for sure. I just purchased the SPC UCA’s and am currently scheduled to have them installed Monday. According to the tech today, he has no doubt he can then dial things in properly. Ugh, so frustrating.
 
imo the original printout says itll go right.
when lifting and aligning these rigs with big tires especially. i set the camber as close to zero as possible.
as long as you have somewhat even positive caster, you're gtg.
 
For reference, here what my passenger side LCA cam bolts look like. Not maxed out, but close. Maxed out means front cam bolt is all the way inboard, and rear cam bolt is all the way outboard. See how yours compare.

Front cam bolt, looking towards the rear of the vehicle. It would need to be at 3 o'clock to be "maxed out".
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Rear cam bolt, looking forward. It is at its max outboard, 3 o'clock position.
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This combination rotates the LCA counter clockwise in a horizontal plane (as viewed from above) moving the lower ball joint/knuckle attachment point forward, thereby increasing caster relative to the fixed upper knuckle mount.

I have aftermarket welded-on cam tab gussets, since I flattened the OEM ones...

With a 2" Ironman Nitro lift, I was able to get ~2.4° caster with the OEM UCAs.
 
So are you or are you not, implying the welded on reinforcements altered the stock ajustment range? As opposed to replacement upper arms with additional caster ajustment?
 
So are you or are you not, implying the welded on reinforcements altered the stock ajustment range? As opposed to replacement upper arms with additional caster ajustment?
Welded on reinforcements should not affect adjustment range as compared to OEM. Replacement upper arms will increase caster regardless. Just noting that my setup might not look quite like the OP's.
 
Ok, went to an alignment shop today where the guy is a 43 year experienced technician. He has done many lifts, builds, and understands caster and adjustable UCA‘s like SPC. After looking at my setup, he could not get caster anywhere close to spec and recommended I get the SPC’S which not only he will install but then dial in to the 3.7-4.1 spec range. Looking back, I should have done UCA’s while installing my lift. We live and learn. Hopefully all is well after this coming Monday.
Looking at the cup half full, at least you can afford to get the parts, have them installed in a short time period and move forward enjoying your ride. In a short while you'll forget all about this little hiccup until in the future you post about it here for someone going through the same thing.
 
Looking at the cup half full, at least you can afford to get the parts, have them installed in a short time period and move forward enjoying your ride. In a short while you'll forget all about this little hiccup until in the future you post about it here for someone going through the same thing.
Good point, and I agree. I had planned on getting SPC's down the road once I installed a more robust lift after the other mods are done over time. However, it appears that anyone with close to a 2" lift or more will definitely need UCA's to dial in the caster correctly. I was hoping to get close with stock UCA's which would last until the upgraded lift was installed, but that does not look like an option now. So, let's install the SPC's and dial it in and then I am all set. Of course, hindsight being 20/20, I should have installed the SPC's from day one and we wouldn't be having this conversation LOL.
 
Of course, hindsight being 20/20, I should have installed the SPC's from day one and we wouldn't be having this conversation LOL.
Life is full of, "would'a, should'a, could'a's".
Glad you're able to get 'er all done! Looking forward to some pic's after the install! :clap:
 

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