Fall Crawl 2022 - Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

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I would ask them ... since we are paying a preimum fee... if they might be kind enough to actually prep the area with some basic maintenance... like dinging out and removing the ash from the main fire pit. Also the other fire rings need to be cleaned up and have the grass trimmed back and the rock rings remade and cleaned up.

Shouldn't have to be a guessing game as to where the fire pits/rings are located.
 
I’ll take sloppy fire pits every time if they’ll just agree to standardized pricing that can be published in advance…and let us bring in a suitable amount of our own “local” firewood. The stuff they sold this year was about the worst (greenest) wood I’ve ever tried to burn.
 
oh i agree...
Standard and a "fair" price... it's a yearly event that they have to do a minimum amount of work for ( and it shows )
stop the "raping" at the gate for kids and all... We can understand the camping fees but the extra trail fees for passengers is crazy. I would also like to know what the "event" fee gets us over the normal camping fees.

Letting us source our own local wood... the stuff Chris so kindly brings in is local ( and don't charge him to drop it off!! )

Some more basic work on the camp sites IE... fire pits and latrines.

at least this year the big dumpster was not overflowing as it has been in the past.

The grass was even and at a good length in the field and camping areas around the edges. That is always nice to see. Also no real amounts of trash was there when we arrived and I know I picked up the small pits around my area to leave it even cleaner after we left.


It is a very nice location for our event and the trails are great it is always a fin time... but there are some issues for sure ... and they mostly seem to be centered on the gate.
 
I do want to say something very positive about something that happened this year....
the hamburger/hotdogs on Sat night was a HUGH hit... It wasn't fancy or over the top but I as I ate mine and looked about everyone there was smiling and happy.

It is the small things like that that make good memories. It is why I like to cook and share and I think it is those things that people remember in general and imparts the happy memories of events and gatherings.

If that or something like it can happen in the future I think it would be a very good thing. I have heard that in the past before Covid there was a pot luck type dinner and that can/could be great but even something as nice and basic as a burger and chips can really stand out!


.... oh and keep the kegs of course!
 
I do want to say something very positive about something that happened this year....
the hamburger/hotdogs on Sat night was a HUGH hit... It wasn't fancy or over the top but I as I ate mine and looked about everyone there was smiling and happy.

It is the small things like that that make good memories. It is why I like to cook and share and I think it is those things that people remember in general and imparts the happy memories of events and gatherings.

If that or something like it can happen in the future I think it would be a very good thing. I have heard that in the past before Covid there was a pot luck type dinner and that can/could be great but even something as nice and basic as a burger and chips can really stand out!


.... oh and keep the kegs of course!
I did not get any hamburgers. WTF. Maybe next year depending on location. Have a catering company come in one night.? BUT...that may not be what people want. In the past on other events, those who may be stuck on the trail for some reason arrive late for food and kind of feel left out. Let's see what next years plans bring.
 
We have talked about Catering and we think it gets to formal. The hamburgers and hotdogs were left over from the canceled swapmeet and a last minute addition. They were not Communicated correctly to everyone we were cooking them. But I think it was great and will probably do it again.
We do need to talk to the Cove about pricing. The one big thing it has going for it is “it is the only game in town.” We would have to take Fall Crawl out of state. I’m not against it but it is something we need to discuss.
 
We have talked about Catering and we think it gets to formal. The hamburgers and hotdogs were left over from the canceled swapmeet and a last minute addition. They were not Communicated correctly to everyone we were cooking them. But I think it was great and will probably do it again.
We do need to talk to the Cove about pricing. The one big thing it has going for it is “it is the only game in town.” We would have to take Fall Crawl out of state. I’m not against it but it is something we need to discuss.
With you on all of those points. From what I can see the gate is just using the gate fees as a way to soak money out of people.
 
They have a great place and people come to Fall Crawl to enjoy the Cove trails as well as meeting and renewing friendships. It is the only game in town for sure.
The other ORP to go to such as Rousch or AOAA are very nice as well and tons of fun BUT they do not offer what the Cove gives us. Direct access to the trails FROM the camp area. That is a great perk for sure.

So the beniffits of the Cove ( as i see them ) are:
The Size of "our " event area that allows us to all be in the same place but not crowded.
The direct access to the trail system
The fact that the Cove is not open to everyone that wants to wheel so it is an exclusive opertunity to run the trails in that you cant just go to the Cove like AOAA or others.
Also it is just a damn pretty place to ride in.

The Cons to the Cove ( again as I see them )
Costs .... Camp fees, trail fees, event fees, ect... and the fact that the fees seem to change at will and person to person
New wood rule that we must buy from them
Basic area maintenance and facilities ( Fire pits/rings and Latrines )

Now here is what CLCC brings to the table...
a yearly event that happens "rain or shine"
a group that respects the area that we use and polices it before leaving AND does not destroy the trail systems that we use.
good promotion for the Cove in the off roading community

and most of all ... MONEY
we bring in, every year, 100 vehicles to the event.
if the total fee was $100 per vehicle for the event that is $10,000 for that weekend. We provide insurance and do not require any supervison or anything special from the Cove or its staff for the event.
According to the Cove's website the rates are:
Camping per Adult $25 per person per day
Child $10 per person per day

So for a single person it would be 3 days.... $75 for a couple $150 and a family of 3 $225

Trail rates are $30.00 per person per day, (discounts are available LOL) would be $90 for the 3 day event.
So for a single person the event , not including the CLCC fee, would be $165.00
IF it was ONLY single attendees then the Cove gets $16,500 minimum every year that they can count on for revinue. This is the bottom figure not including passengers and families and all.


Again for an event they have a minimum of work or support to do beyond what that would do for normal operations.

Most vehicals are single occipent but some have a passenger and some have children. Still only one vehicle will be on the trail no matter who is driving it at the time so the additional fee for a 2nd driver is a bit crazy no matter how you look at it. So I am trying to figure out what the "event fee" is all about.

IF we could get the Cove to set pricing to be a bit more reasonable for this guaranteed income for them at lets say... $125 per 1 attendee that includes vehicle AND trail use I think that would be a good price. That still gets them $12,500 for the 100 attendees.
For additional persons I think that even lowering the Camping fee to $20 per person and kids under 12 free would be the right choice as well. They are still looking at another few hundred in fees there as well. That would make the cost for a family of 3 to be $185 for the event. With that price difference more people MAY be included to bring the family or kids along.

again these are just my rambling thoughts on the subject. I would hate to see FC leave the Cove we have history there and the venue truly is a great place for what we want to do and how we operate the event.
 
We did catering at the cove before, a BBQ joint out of Winchester. It was ok, cost some money, I think if you did hamburgers and hot dogs again it would be fine, but trying to feed 200 people is crazy and takes a long time to cook all that. I say leave it like it is, although a community meal does help get everyone in one spot but they do not have tables to eat at either, RC has the pavilion that was nice.

I do like the idea of keeping in state, we are from VA, at least most of use. AND this place is not open for the general public on a regular basis.

Price??? It sucks, figure in extra fuel to go up north the PA, time, hotels and other camping fees, Fees per day for AOAA, RC. it might be close to breaking even.
 
I agree with @matzell if you figure up for a single person going to just say RC since it’s closer (I know it’s more expensive than AOAA) and primitive camping at Twin Groves for a 3 day event. These aren’t exact numbers but just for reference

Camping-$105
RC- $50 membership fee for 1st trip people
$ 195 for wheeling

So a total of $350 for the 3 days without fuel getting there and to the trails.

Just my thoughts not worth much other than to important people - ME 😁
 
I think we approach it with the Cove as an opportunity for them to make MORE money.


I paid $192 for just myself. I’m not paying 192x4=$768 to bring my family of 4. I’m not paying $384 for just my wife and I when she doesn’t care about the wheeling, at least not enough to pay that much.

I WOULD consider paying a flat rate for a family of $250 for the weekend. Don’t hassle me at the gate, have a pre agreed rate for a single person or a family that we can understand and expect to pay in advance. They are missing out on money by scaring families members away. At least for events like ours.
 
They are the only game in town. They know it.
 
I think we approach it with the Cove as an opportunity for them to make MORE money.


I paid $192 for just myself. I’m not paying 192x4=$768 to bring my family of 4. I’m not paying $384 for just my wife and I when she doesn’t care about the wheeling, at least not enough to pay that much.

I WOULD consider paying a flat rate for a family of $250 for the weekend. Don’t hassle me at the gate, have a pre agreed rate for a single person or a family that we can understand and expect to pay in advance. They are missing out on money by scaring families members away. At least for events like ours.

They are the only game in town. They know it.
The military guys will appreciate this:
I understand they screw us all on the price.
But screw us all uniformly on the price.
 
Like everyone else, I really like the Cove, despite some of the 1-star elements or accommodations. I can deal with an austere environment; I really like only airing down once for the event.

However, it’s disrespectful for them to gouge at the gate like that. It really rubs me the wrong way, seems like it does the same for lots of other folks too. Are we supposed to accept people getting ripped off? That’s what’s happening right? That is not cool. Doesn’t affect me, I come alone, but I’m not against the family angle of our event and it seems that getting hit with extra fees at the gate ruins the experience for some of the families.

Can we not collectively say “cut the s**t at the gate, or blame the d**k at the gate for making $100k+ begrudgingly find a new home annually?”

I mean, if what has been articulated happened (that people were being intentionally fleeced or ripped off), F that place until they learn how to respect us as an organization.
 
1 - One thing that I haven't heard come up in this conversation here is which employees are the ones who have charged admission improperly. My anger will rise if the one or two main people are the culprits, but I can be understanding (NOT accepting, tho) if the randomly higher prices are coming from one of the employees who doesn't regularly work the gate and/or run the charges. Also, I suspect that they are not working off of a written, uniform list that clearly defines the pricing structure and is readily available for all employees to see. In hindsight, we should all have introduced ourselves at the gate and then asked "And what's your name?".

2 - The above comment clearly avoids the topic of them just making the undisclosed blanket decision of "event fee" this year; that is obviously an additional concern.

3 - I think the firewood topic is a no-win situation for us from the start. It's too easy for them to use the "no transporting wood" rule that is in effect in so much of the country, and I might not really blame them for that.
 
Now that I think of it, we should probably create a "COVE" thread in the private section for this discussion. Keeps it out of sight and prevents cluttering an annual event thread. Perhaps a moderator can do that then cut & paste any negativity from here to there, deleting here as appropriate along the way.
 
Last year I took some parts to a buddy from PA. that was wheeling there and they wanted to try and charge me for a day to just drive up to camp 6 and drop the parts. It was in the afternoon also. Told them to F themselves and the gave me a 10 minute pass. I stopped going there about 7 years ago when they charged my wife and I $150 to camp one night. We had friends that had a site for Memorial day weekend. F em
 
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