15b-ft or not to be? (5 Viewers)
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It seems that no issues have been reported on swapped 14Bs and 15Bs by cutting the sump (oil pan) wings.
However, it is possible to use a sump with no wings from a 1988 and later 3B (the so called 3B-II) from any donor vehicle (eg. BJ7X, Dyna, Coaster etc.)
14B in to a 1989 bj73 VM
14B in to my BJ73 VM After owning an LJ73 for 5 years while constantly looking for a BJ/HZJ 73 on Norwegian plates I found one! Actually it seems to be the only HD 73 in Norway. Due to the huge import taxes on used trucks import was not an option. This truck was partly built in Portugal and it...
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@Greek CruiserheadIt seems that no issues have been reported on swapped 14Bs and 15Bs by cutting the sump (oil pan) wings.
However, it is possible to use a sump with no wings from a 1988 and later 3B (the so called 3B-II) from any donor vehicle (eg. BJ7X, Dyna, Coaster etc.)
14B in to a 1989 bj73 VM
14B in to my BJ73 VM After owning an LJ73 for 5 years while constantly looking for a BJ/HZJ 73 on Norwegian plates I found one! Actually it seems to be the only HD 73 in Norway. Due to the huge import taxes on used trucks import was not an option. This truck was partly built in Portugal and it...
Thanks I’ll do some digging, I’m sure it’s been said before but I’m sure it takes longer looking through parts numbers than it does to fit the engine..
I don't think that's normal, usually just bolt the engine side mounts on to the 15B. Are you sure you didn't get them mixed up? You may need to use a different position to the mounts that were previously on the 15BF (I had to move mine toward front of engine and remove an AC bracket to do so)
You may need to cut the battery mount as such:
It's normal for engine not to sit perfectly level, but this may be due to you switching mounts around
It will be fine, the 15B sumps are large because they're industrial vehicles which may experience extended service intervals, etc. You can use a 3B pan with some mods to the front holes, or a later 3BII one etc. NB: have to match the oil pickup to the oil pan, as they can be different depths!
@myusername thanks, I’ve literally just got her sat in place again now I’ve removed the left side battery mount frame altogether for now, and swapped the cast engine mount arms back to where they where on the B engine, it’s made everything sit a lot happier, I’ve modified the coaster sump to suit as suggested and I’ve had to use my B engine dipstick tube and dipstick and use the dipstick hole on the block as per the B motor.
Also managed to source the smaller 8 bolt flywheel, mated up to an exedy clutch and I’ve got that sat in there too mated up to the 4 speed for now until I can find a h55f.
Now all that’s left to do is plumb the cooling pipes up, modify the battery frame as per your picture, and sort out the turbo situation ( the turbo and exhaust manifold weren’t with the engine unfortunately so I think I’m going to fab up a custom 4 branch manifold and fit a CT26 While I’m on with getting it all to fit.
Hopefully then I can get it all stripped down and the chassis blasted and painted..
if you where going to all this trouble would you change the steer Box to a power assisted unit? Seems awful tight in this area now though as she’s left hand drive.
Thanks for the input as always
Also managed to source the smaller 8 bolt flywheel, mated up to an exedy clutch and I’ve got that sat in there too mated up to the 4 speed for now until I can find a h55f.
Now all that’s left to do is plumb the cooling pipes up, modify the battery frame as per your picture, and sort out the turbo situation ( the turbo and exhaust manifold weren’t with the engine unfortunately so I think I’m going to fab up a custom 4 branch manifold and fit a CT26 While I’m on with getting it all to fit.
Hopefully then I can get it all stripped down and the chassis blasted and painted..
if you where going to all this trouble would you change the steer Box to a power assisted unit? Seems awful tight in this area now though as she’s left hand drive.
Thanks for the input as always
Nz Nath
SILVER Star
If you're fabricating your own manifold, why go for a ct26? Sounds like you're not on the most tight budget, so plenty of other better options?
Hi @Nz Nath
Tbh I hadn’t given it a great deal of thought, I’d seen a few other posts recommending the CT26 As a replacement, so I’d figured it was a safe option, not looking for huge power or anything stupid, MY thinking is that the 15bft will already be a Big improvement over the B motor.
What did you have in mind?
Tbh I hadn’t given it a great deal of thought, I’d seen a few other posts recommending the CT26 As a replacement, so I’d figured it was a safe option, not looking for huge power or anything stupid, MY thinking is that the 15bft will already be a Big improvement over the B motor.
What did you have in mind?
Nz Nath
SILVER Star
The ct26 is the common factory turbo for most older landcruiser diesels. I think the stock 15bft turbo was the ct20b, but not 100%. The ct20b is certainly regarded as a "better" turbo. Will get earlier boost, so more low down torque, and probably lower egt for a given power level. People do recommend the ct26 for the 15b and in general, but it could be said that most people that recommend the ct26 won't have actually compared it to something else.
The 15b is most similar in size and character to the cummins 4bt and isuzu 4bd1t. The he221w got a lot of mention on the various internet forums, as the "go to" turbo. The hx30 is also popular on those motors. Td05 based turbos get mentioned, and one knowledgeable forum member here often recommends the td04hl platform.
Personally I'm going to fabricate a twinscroll manifold to suit the td04hla turbine housing, but use the he221w with it. I'm running this setup on my 13bt, and egt is way way lower than with the ct26, ct20b, or single scroll "small" he221w. If you don't mind the extra work of doing a twinscroll manifold, then I think this is the path to go down.
The 15b is most similar in size and character to the cummins 4bt and isuzu 4bd1t. The he221w got a lot of mention on the various internet forums, as the "go to" turbo. The hx30 is also popular on those motors. Td05 based turbos get mentioned, and one knowledgeable forum member here often recommends the td04hl platform.
Personally I'm going to fabricate a twinscroll manifold to suit the td04hla turbine housing, but use the he221w with it. I'm running this setup on my 13bt, and egt is way way lower than with the ct26, ct20b, or single scroll "small" he221w. If you don't mind the extra work of doing a twinscroll manifold, then I think this is the path to go down.
@Nz Nath Interesting stuff, like I say hadn’t given it a lot of thought at all, just figured the C26 was the like the “standard” upgrade as such.
I like the twinscroll idea, Sod’s law I literally ordered the CT26 Last night
Either way this will be my first exhaust manifold, so I might mock it up with the c26 for now, and look into other options down the line, my biggest issue is time currently, I need to have it built up and rolling again by the end of the month.
once it’s mostly assembled and I don’t have a million bits all over the place I’ll definitely look into a Twin scroll setup.
Let me know how you get on with yours though, it would be good to see.
I like the twinscroll idea, Sod’s law I literally ordered the CT26 Last night
Either way this will be my first exhaust manifold, so I might mock it up with the c26 for now, and look into other options down the line, my biggest issue is time currently, I need to have it built up and rolling again by the end of the month.
once it’s mostly assembled and I don’t have a million bits all over the place I’ll definitely look into a Twin scroll setup.
Let me know how you get on with yours though, it would be good to see.
I'm not 100% sure, but the factory turbo on my Coaster 15BFT was tiny, I believe it's a CT12B but with a different housing to the one used on the 1KZT. The pipe sizes are also small, 1.75" out of the goose neck to the IC and 2" from IC to intake from memory. Makes sense as a bus needs all the torque it can get off the line. CT26 is considered oversized and slow spooling for the 13BT but should be suited to the 4.1L 15BF, but if OEM style they are an old design.
I would fit power steering while you're at it, as the 15BFT will have a gear driven pump. You can find a 40 series PS box and column, but they're usually hard to find and expensive, and you're stuck with the drag link to bellcrank with the small 40 series rods.
The usual PS upgrade method in Aus for a 40 series is:
- custom pressure hose, put a cooler on the low pressure return instead of the hard line "paperclip"
- 60 series P/S box with crush tubes and a backing plate
- 60 or 70 series steering arms (need the larger taper than 40 series, if using the fat 70 ones need to alter bump stops)
- 70 series tie rods and ends
- 60 or 70 series steering damper + chassis mount to suit
- later 70 series collapsible intermediate shaft from a tilting column model
- cut and spline the 40 steering shaft to accept a 90's hilux universal joint
I'm swapping the factory pump outlet for an AN -6 to metric banjo fitting, and have sourced an AN-6 to metric bump tube fitting to suit the 60 series PS box. I'll be making AN style PTFE lined stainless braided hose, meets specs and hose manufacturer says it's suitable for PS pressure lines but I haven't seen it done before. Most people pay industrial hydraulic shops hundreds for a custom hose here in Aus. NB: if taking this route the GM style metric bump tubes I tried were all *too short*, most people braze an AN fitting to the original toyota fitting but mine was damaged.
@myusername
That’s great info on the steering setup, I’ll see why I can find, here in the UK 40’s & 70’s are like hens teeth and there aren’t many 60’s left now either, but I’ll see why I can find.
That’s great info on the steering setup, I’ll see why I can find, here in the UK 40’s & 70’s are like hens teeth and there aren’t many 60’s left now either, but I’ll see why I can find.
If you can't easily collect landcruiser parts, there's a hilux PS box which will work but you need to make a "wedge" to mount it as the stock mount won't work.
Easier to find and cheaper than the 40 factory box, but you don't get all the benefits of the frankenstein 60/70 series upgrades.
Another alternative is importing the parts from Australia or elsewhere from someone who has collected them, but I assume this will be cost prohibitive and risky.
@Dougal @Nz Nath @myusername
Hi Guys,
So I’ve decided to ditch the CT26 Turbo, looking around on the inter web here are my alternative options, following your collective advice.
TD04HL-19T seem readily available as cheap Chinese imports roughly £200 GBP
HX30 seem to be the same story, labelled as “genuine” but still from China about twice the cost £350-400 GBP
There’s a New Genuine HE221W here in the UK for £475 GBP
CT20 only reconditioned available £350 GBP
What would you opt for out of those options? Are the chineseium ones likely to be a problem down the line?
Hi Guys,
So I’ve decided to ditch the CT26 Turbo, looking around on the inter web here are my alternative options, following your collective advice.
TD04HL-19T seem readily available as cheap Chinese imports roughly £200 GBP
HX30 seem to be the same story, labelled as “genuine” but still from China about twice the cost £350-400 GBP
There’s a New Genuine HE221W here in the UK for £475 GBP
CT20 only reconditioned available £350 GBP
What would you opt for out of those options? Are the chineseium ones likely to be a problem down the line?
Nz Nath
SILVER Star
Ct20b is probably the odd one out of that group, people have commented in the past safe max boost is high teens. Dougal has often commented the td04hl 19t good for high 20s, he221w good for more but less efficient at lower boost (read: higher egt?), hx30 is meant to be a really robust turbo.
You don't want the he221w with the 5.5cm turbine housing, 7cm version would suit the 4.1l motor better I think. I'd be tempted to try the hx30, think there's a variety of turbine housing options too including twin scroll if you wanted to give that a go later. Holset has factories in China so I wouldn't let that be a concern. I'd be more worried about the Chinese td04hl, as generic chinese clone turbos used to have a bad reputation.
You don't want the he221w with the 5.5cm turbine housing, 7cm version would suit the 4.1l motor better I think. I'd be tempted to try the hx30, think there's a variety of turbine housing options too including twin scroll if you wanted to give that a go later. Holset has factories in China so I wouldn't let that be a concern. I'd be more worried about the Chinese td04hl, as generic chinese clone turbos used to have a bad reputation.
@Nz Nath
Thanks, as it happens the he221w was the 5.5 version so I’ll scratch that.
Just as a complete “wild card option” what do you know about the IHI RH4 VT16 turbo? I can’t find any specs on it anywhere, I only ask as I have two sat on the shelf with all the associated piping, they’re from a B40 Model Triton / l200, I’d originally written them off as they seemed tiny but then when I look at the likes of the td04 i see that’s only a small turbo too, and I think the earlier l200’s had a version of the td04 also? My thinking was it might be a more advanced model than the older td04 or am I barking completely up the wrong tree?
As you can tell I’m not up on turbo’s or the sizes and airflows etc so I’m just pitching a random idea, sorry for all the back and forth, if the answer is a straight no I’ll opt for the HX30 as that seems to be readily available in “genuine form”
Thanks, as it happens the he221w was the 5.5 version so I’ll scratch that.
Just as a complete “wild card option” what do you know about the IHI RH4 VT16 turbo? I can’t find any specs on it anywhere, I only ask as I have two sat on the shelf with all the associated piping, they’re from a B40 Model Triton / l200, I’d originally written them off as they seemed tiny but then when I look at the likes of the td04 i see that’s only a small turbo too, and I think the earlier l200’s had a version of the td04 also? My thinking was it might be a more advanced model than the older td04 or am I barking completely up the wrong tree?
As you can tell I’m not up on turbo’s or the sizes and airflows etc so I’m just pitching a random idea, sorry for all the back and forth, if the answer is a straight no I’ll opt for the HX30 as that seems to be readily available in “genuine form”
Nz Nath
SILVER Star
Pretty sure that's variable geometry, rather than wastegated? I don't know anything about that if so, but I think most factory applications use the ecu to manage the vanes, but it is possible to use a boost controller to do something similar, but not totally straight forward.
Hard to believe a turbo intended for a 2.5l engine would suit a 4.1l. Besides that, I used to have a 2012 2.5l triton work ute that i believe used that turbo, and down low that thing had nothing. Great torque above 2k rpm and a good top end, but the bottom end was non existent, hard to believe it was a variable geometry turbo. If that was in anyway reflective of the characteristic of that turbo, then you wouldn't want it.
Don't confuse the td04 with the td04hl, as the latter is a bigger turbine.
Hard to believe a turbo intended for a 2.5l engine would suit a 4.1l. Besides that, I used to have a 2012 2.5l triton work ute that i believe used that turbo, and down low that thing had nothing. Great torque above 2k rpm and a good top end, but the bottom end was non existent, hard to believe it was a variable geometry turbo. If that was in anyway reflective of the characteristic of that turbo, then you wouldn't want it.
Don't confuse the td04 with the td04hl, as the latter is a bigger turbine.
@Nz Nath
Ok cool I understand thanks, I had thought the inlet on the turbine looked extremely small, I believe about 40mm Diameter.
Right HX30 It is then.
There’s one for sale on eBay currently
Compressor 40/69mm
Turbine 52/65mm
Turbine housing 6cm2 ( t3 single entry) V-band 3”
Oil cooled
Does that sound like the ticket?
Ok cool I understand thanks, I had thought the inlet on the turbine looked extremely small, I believe about 40mm Diameter.
Right HX30 It is then.
There’s one for sale on eBay currently
Compressor 40/69mm
Turbine 52/65mm
Turbine housing 6cm2 ( t3 single entry) V-band 3”
Oil cooled
Does that sound like the ticket?
Nz Nath
SILVER Star
From what I've read on 4btswaps.com that would be good. But I don't have any 1st hand experience so don't take my word for it.
Based on running the 5.5cm, 7cm and 8.5cm twinscroll he221w on my 13bt, the 7cm housing didn't lose too much low down torque to the smaller 5.5cm version. Based on that my suspicion is that the 7cm would be on the small side for the 15b. And whilst the hx30 is a different turbo, I'd suspect the 6cm housing would be a bit small, and a bigger turbine housing would still spool up well be run better at the topend.
In reality probably any of the turbos you've spoken about, including thr ct26, are going to be acceptable based on you saying you're not interested in chasing performance. But if you're doing a 15b swap you're probably interested in chasing "good". That hx30 will probably perform really well, but I'd suspect either a larger turbine housing, or the larger wheel size versions would perform even better.
Based on running the 5.5cm, 7cm and 8.5cm twinscroll he221w on my 13bt, the 7cm housing didn't lose too much low down torque to the smaller 5.5cm version. Based on that my suspicion is that the 7cm would be on the small side for the 15b. And whilst the hx30 is a different turbo, I'd suspect the 6cm housing would be a bit small, and a bigger turbine housing would still spool up well be run better at the topend.
In reality probably any of the turbos you've spoken about, including thr ct26, are going to be acceptable based on you saying you're not interested in chasing performance. But if you're doing a 15b swap you're probably interested in chasing "good". That hx30 will probably perform really well, but I'd suspect either a larger turbine housing, or the larger wheel size versions would perform even better.
