Brake pads: Ceramic vs Metallic on lifted LC with Heavy 33s (1 Viewer)

[Reckless]

So last year I did the big brake Tundra upgrade which was nice initially, 10 months 7500 miles later top of the line akebano asp ceramic pads are worn completely down. I'm pretty sure it has to be from the inertia of the heavy 33" KO2 10ply tire in stop and go traffic. I have always had brake trouble with my LC replacing brakes every year whether it was TRD pads or akebanos. Kind of irritated by it after 7 years. Thinking to switch to metallic if I can get 2 years out of them. I run my LC through a brushless car wash 5x/week with extra attention to my wheels/tires so brake dust might not be a cosmetic issue. I do like the noiseless ceramic brakes, trd pads would squeal like a witch even under light braking.

Anyone can give advice on which brake pad to buy? I have been trying to compare powerstop to akebano. akebanos are good for cars but not lifted trucks with offroad tires.

 

[bloc]

IMO most ceramics won't have enough friction coefficient for a heavy rig, or stopping from high speed. I believe this is why german cars are so famous for bad brake dusting with OE brakes... they opt for metallic so they can perform well in autobahn-type situations. I know they'd be different compound but I was not happy with the akebono euro-ceramics braking even mildly from speeds above 130mph in my last DD.. they felt like they were out of their element.

@bjowett posted what name-brand compound the TRD pads are in the past if you'd like to do some more educated research into the materials.

Front - Stoptech 309.13030 Street Performance Front Brake Pad
Rear - StopTech 309.13040 Street Performance Rear Brake Pad

Source:

Rear brake rotor upgrade?

Are y'all doing ebrake shoes and adjust when you do rear rotors? Part #'s? I need everything all around. 162k, rotors have been turned at least twice per records, unclear if ever replaced. Significant pulsing, evident warping. Also what's best source for stainless lines, please and thank you?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[montegofd3s]

Woah, that is pretty insane in 7500 miles. I am running the performance ceramics on the stock calipers, napa performance rotors, and 34" NItto Ridge Grapplers (heavy boys) and haven't experienced this. Are you towing occasionally and what rotors are you running? I also live in a city so I am trying to figure out what could be different here. I completely understand your frustration with that.

 

[bwell]

Just an honest opinion, and not trying to be an a$$. If you have experimented with that many different pad types already, and have been changing pads that frequently, until you change your driving style, it will not matter what compound or formulation of pad/rotor type you try.

All that aside, I experimented a little with different pads, I liked the performance of the TRD pads, but hated the dust and constant cleaning of the wheels. I have personally had a good experience with Centric PQ Pro line of pads. Maybe not quite as much initial bite as the TRD pads, but similar braking impression overall, with no where near the brake dust. Just my thoughts.

Edit, Stoptech is a subsidiary of Centric brands.

 

[TeCKis300]

Agree 7500 miles through a set of pads seems pretty extreme but then again I don't know what the day to day usage looks like. Are you using full face blank rotors? Drilled and slotted may wear pads prematurely.

I just installed some new Hawk LTS pads and have had them for about 1k miles. Coming from what I thought were high performance Hawk HPS pads that have the classic European car qualities of great bite, strong braking, but boy a lot of dust.

These new gen LTSs really are on another level. Probably 10-20% more friction than even the HPS that were already better than stock. Smooth and low noise. Better all around, and then they seem to have low dust to boot. Happy with these. They seems to be marketed towards large heavy SUV and trucks and so far so good.

 

[bloc]

Agree 7500 miles through a set of pads seems pretty extreme but then again I don't know what the day to day usage looks like. Are you using full face blank rotors? Drilled and slotted may wear pads prematurely.

I just installed some new Hawk LTS pads and have had them for about 1k miles. Coming from what I thought were high performance Hawk HPS pads that have the classic European car qualities of great bite, strong braking, but boy a lot of dust.

These new gen LTSs really are on another level. Probably 10-20% more friction than even the HPS that were already better than stock. Smooth and low noise. Better all around, and then they seem to have low dust to boot. Happy with these. They seems to be marketed towards large heavy SUV and trucks and so far so good.

Kept your existing rotors? Turned? New rotors?

 

[AZLX570]

I run my LC through a brushless car wash 5x/week with extra attention to my wheels/tires so brake dust might not be a cosmetic issue.

I'm sorry, but, you wash your car 5 times per week??

 

[Reckless]

Woah, that is pretty insane in 7500 miles. I am running the performance ceramics on the stock calipers, napa performance rotors, and 34" NItto Ridge Grapplers (heavy boys) and haven't experienced this. Are you towing occasionally and what rotors are you running? I also live in a city so I am trying to figure out what could be different here. I completely understand your frustration with that.

No towing, chicago has a lot of stop and go traffic on highways when im doing 80mph. A lot of last second braking. No high speed maneuvers, slightly aggressive braking. My LC has no raft.

Kept your existing rotors? Turned? New rotors?

I think rotors are ok this time because there is no shimmy but pedal is hitting the floor and vehicle is inching into intersections. They are blank, flat tundra rotors.

I'm sorry, but, you wash your car 5 times per week??

Next door to my work is a auto car wash that cost $20/mo with wax and armor all unlimited washes. Anytime I have water spots on bruiser/dirt/bird poop I go through car wash takes less than 2 minutes out of my day and is free. Everyone notices my wheels/tires as daily armour all makes tires black and more aggressive looking according to friends. It even cools vehicle down on hot 90+F days.

 

[Reckless]

Just an honest opinion, and not trying to be an a$$. If you have experimented with that many different pad types already, and have been changing pads that frequently, until you change your driving style, it will not matter what compound or formulation of pad/rotor type you try.

All that aside, I experimented a little with different pads, I liked the performance of the TRD pads, but hated the dust and constant cleaning of the wheels. I have personally had a good experience with Centric PQ Pro line of pads. Maybe not quite as much initial bite as the TRD pads, but similar braking impression overall, with no where near the brake dust. Just my thoughts.

Edit, Stoptech is a subsidiary of Centric brands.

My driving style is not that aggressive (mostly 10mph over speed limit which is typical in chicago), the KO2s slowed me down alot compared to michelins. For me there was marginal difference with TRD and akebano but this was on my old regular KO2s which would lose chunks of tires and destroy brakes/rotors faster. I switched to DT KO2s which is harder rubber and doesnt cause uneven brake wear as much.

 

[Cincodemustache]

No towing, chicago has a lot of stop and go traffic on highways when im doing 80mph. A lot of last second braking. No high speed maneuvers, slightly aggressive braking. My LC has no raft.

I think rotors are ok this time because there is no shimmy but pedal is hitting the floor and vehicle is inching into intersections. They are blank, flat tundra rotors.

Next door to my work is a auto car wash that cost $20/mo with wax and armor all unlimited washes. Anytime I have water spots on bruiser/dirt/bird poop I go through car wash takes less than 2 minutes out of my day and is free. Everyone notices my wheels/tires as daily armour all makes tires black and more aggressive looking according to friends. It even cools vehicle down on hot 90+F days.

Good for you washing so much. My OCD applauds you.

 

[gaijin]

Thanks for the correction, 112 mph is correct I forgot the exact number and thought it was 118. I am used to Y rated tires and there isn't much of a difference between 112 and 118 in my book.

On empty highways I get over 100 mph and with the Icons the ride is great. It prefers the higher speeds from my experience. Last night I was doing ~120 mph through an empty dark construction zone through wisconsin. It felt sort of what I imagine baja racing feels like esp with my bright IPF LED bulbs lighting a completely dark night. Icons ate through the twists and turns like butter (Chicago is a different story). I was actually cruising not racing through the highway at that speed. I think Coilovers really complement the body on Frame truck nicely although I do wish there was something even nicer. While driving I was trying to think how michelins would have felt compared to the KO2s as I was having a hard time imagining something running even smoother.

Those numbers may sound high to some but it felt right in the moment and did not feel I was going to fast for conditions. Replacing the rear shocks makes the car absorb the bumps really well.

My driving style is not that aggressive (mostly 10mph over speed limit which is typical in chicago), the KO2s slowed me down alot compared to michelins. For me there was marginal difference with TRD and akebano but this was on my old regular KO2s which would lose chunks of tires and destroy brakes/rotors faster. I switched to DT KO2s which is harder rubber and doesnt cause uneven brake wear as much.

Sounds like your driving style has changed dramatically

 

[Reckless]

It has, I've gotten older and not going over 90mph for a few years. If I had a different vehicle/tire combo i might but the Bruiser slowed me down considerably. I blame the RW lately, as putting on the heavier tire combo gave all kinds of tire/brake headaches. Braking at really high speeds was always murder to the brakes. I might have gone with michelins on stock wheels to save the brake headache and get performance street tires. My 100 loves them.

KO2s did come handy 2 days ago as some idiot had a small plastic wheelbarrow slide out of their trailer going 70mph and I crushed it in half trying to dodge it.

 

[Reckless]

So I ordered the powerstop set this time. I am pretty sure Akebanos don't like the tundra brakes.
Powerstop Ceramic & Carbon Fiber Brake Pad for Truck & Tow

 

[TeCKis300]

Kept your existing rotors? Turned? New rotors?

Existing rotors. Just threw in the new pads and did some light bedding in. Probably really bedded them in after last months camping at 8k ft.

 

[Reckless]

Existing rotors. Just threw in the new pads and did some light bedding in. Probably really bedded them in after last months camping at 8k ft.

How long did the HPS pads last you? I forgot did you do the Tundra Big Brake Upgrade?

Thanks for chiming in, I ordered Hawk LTS and cancelled the other order! What did you use in the rear?

 

[TeCKis300]

How long did the HPS pads last you? I forgot did you do the Tundra Big Brake Upgrade?

Thanks for chiming in, I ordered Hawk LTS and cancelled the other order! What did you use in the rear?

I had the HPS pads for ~40k. Re-used the same pads when I did the Tundra BBK.

Using LTS on all 4 wheels. Surprised by the amount of added brake friction with these pads. Braking action between the Tundra calipers and these pads, against 35s, feel possibly better than stock. I'd imagine the trade is that these will be harsher on brake rotors. But rotors are so cheap, I don't mind.

 

[bloc]

But rotors are so cheap, I don't mind.

Good perspective on the LTS’s. Might have to try these when I burn through my current TRD/309s

 

[Reckless]

I had the HPS pads for ~40k. Re-used the same pads when I did the Tundra BBK.

Using LTS on all 4 wheels. Surprised by the amount of added brake friction with these pads. Braking action between the Tundra calipers and these pads, against 35s, feel possibly better than stock. I'd imagine the trade is that these will be harsher on brake rotors. But rotors are so cheap, I don't mind.

Does it improve stopping distance or is it just feel in your opinion? Tirerack said it should be 30-40% better than regular ceramic. I read one review claiming it even gets better when hotter.

 

[TeCKis300]

Does it improve stopping distance or is it just feel in your opinion? Tirerack said it should be 30-40% better than regular ceramic. I read one review claiming it even gets better when hotter.

Yes, I would bet these would bring out the best stopping capability that the tires are capable of. These feel immensely strong, and only get stronger with a little heat. Without giving up much of any friction in that first cold braking application as many performance pads are apt to do. My rig when towing is over 15k lbs and these feel especially confidence inspiring in the mountains. As opposed to OEMs that start loosing friction with any heat, with that wooden feel of will these grab more if I really need to stop.

I use to road course sports cars and the delta between street pads and track pads were much further apart. These LTS seem to give strong initial bite and still continue to grab with heat. Best part is that they seem to forego much of the tradeoffs I'm use to for performance pads.

 

[bloc]

Best part is that they seem to forego much of the tradeoffs I'm use to for performance pads.

Pads have come a long way. I was looking at the brake setup a few Nurburgring rental cars are using and some of the pads are $800 an axle, for stock calipers/rotors. But they work like a BBK, last forever, don’t destroy rotors.. it’s inconceivable to me, but that’s also why they are so expensive.

Point is, brakes aren’t necessarily what they used to be with specific compromises if you push the envelope in one direction.