Battery Type for Dual-Battery 1HDT? (1 Viewer)

[nickolai]

Ok so i don't know if this has been covered in the thread so here goes.

I know a lot of you guys are in cold climates so may want to retain the 24v starting (even though it probably makes bugger all difference). Charging two batteries in parallel will always result in one battery crapping itself eventually. This happens all the time on HDJ81s. Most no start conditions are because of that.

You can delete the 24v solenoid thing very easily and run one start battery (LH) and have a house battery in the RH tray. In fact you don't even need to change the starter, it'll still spin on 12v. Add one jumper in the plug that connects to the timer and you're away.

My set up is 2 identical "all rounder" batteries, they're lead-calcium, 110AH (yeah right) 660CCA. I swap them over every 6 months or so to increase their lives. One is charged by the alternator and one by a DC-DC charger.

This way you loose the solenoid (that can and does fail) and a load of nearly 30 year old wiring. Truck still starts just by looking at the key.

I can snap some pictures and do a write up if people are interested.

 

[jellis]

I experience -20F/-30C in the winter so I'm not keen to drop 24V start. I have found some folks on here in the last week out of Canada who have 12V start but they don't report temperatures anywhere near -30C. I'd be willing to do it if someone else was the guinea pig! =)

However, changing to 12V start wouldn't affect my voltage regulation issue at all. I'd still have this same situation. Hopefully someone that understand the IC/regulator in there can chime in on what's going on here.

 

[1HaytchZed]

Ok so i don't know if this has been covered in the thread so here goes.

I know a lot of you guys are in cold climates so may want to retain the 24v starting (even though it probably makes bugger all difference). Charging two batteries in parallel will always result in one battery crapping itself eventually. This happens all the time on HDJ81s. Most no start conditions are because of that.

You can delete the 24v solenoid thing very easily and run one start battery (LH) and have a house battery in the RH tray. In fact you don't even need to change the starter, it'll still spin on 12v. Add one jumper in the plug that connects to the timer and you're away.

My set up is 2 identical "all rounder" batteries, they're lead-calcium, 110AH (yeah right) 660CCA. I swap them over every 6 months or so to increase their lives. One is charged by the alternator and one by a DC-DC charger.

This way you loose the solenoid (that can and does fail) and a load of nearly 30 year old wiring. Truck still starts just by looking at the key.

I can snap some pictures and do a write up if people are interested.

Interested!! Thanks for the offer @nickolai !

 

[Dork]

Ok so i don't know if this has been covered in the thread so here goes.

I know a lot of you guys are in cold climates so may want to retain the 24v starting (even though it probably makes bugger all difference). Charging two batteries in parallel will always result in one battery crapping itself eventually. This happens all the time on HDJ81s. Most no start conditions are because of that.

You can delete the 24v solenoid thing very easily and run one start battery (LH) and have a house battery in the RH tray. In fact you don't even need to change the starter, it'll still spin on 12v. Add one jumper in the plug that connects to the timer and you're away.

My set up is 2 identical "all rounder" batteries, they're lead-calcium, 110AH (yeah right) 660CCA. I swap them over every 6 months or so to increase their lives. One is charged by the alternator and one by a DC-DC charger.

This way you loose the solenoid (that can and does fail) and a load of nearly 30 year old wiring. Truck still starts just by looking at the key.

I can snap some pictures and do a write up if people are interested.

I would be interested in more info and seeing this in action. The starter and it's wiring would now see a much higher current during turnover due to the lower voltage, would it not?

 

[1HaytchZed]

Also, @nickolai , I do have a C-TEK D250S sitting on my shelf for a year now, looking forward to utilizing it once you post the writeup. But it seems like it is only good for lead-acid batteries, according to the instructions for the D250S.

 

[1HaytchZed]

I would be interested in more info and seeing this in action. The starter and it's wiring would now see a much higher current during turnover due to the lower voltage, would it not?

That is true, but isn't it the same gauge wire that goes from the solenoid to the batteries and solenoid to starter? I haven't verified this, but if it is the case, then the same amount of current flows between the solenoid and the 2 batteries and the higher current now flowing between the solenoid and starter wouldn't be an issue since the wires are adequately sized.

Again, I haven't verified that the same size wires are used in the 2 different legs.

 

[nickolai]

That is true, but isn't it the same gauge wire that goes from the solenoid to the batteries and solenoid to starter? I haven't verified this, but if it is the case, then the same amount of current flows between the solenoid and the 2 batteries and the higher current now flowing between the solenoid and starter wouldn't be an issue since the wires are adequately sized.

Again, I haven't verified that the same size wires are used in the 2 different legs.

Yes, that is true. In my set up I am using the stock wire (marked with yellow below) and it works fine. Eventually i will run a new cable as this one goes through the little battery + box down by the injector pump.

I'll get to the write up this weekend.

 

[Dork]

That is true, but isn't it the same gauge wire that goes from the solenoid to the batteries and solenoid to starter? I haven't verified this, but if it is the case, then the same amount of current flows between the solenoid and the 2 batteries and the higher current now flowing between the solenoid and starter wouldn't be an issue since the wires are adequately sized.

Again, I haven't verified that the same size wires are used in the 2 different legs.

The wires right now carry 24v to the starter. If you eliminate the changeover relay and run it at 12v, that's half the voltage, and thus double the amperage, the wattage/power of the starter motor stays the same. Normal 12v starters on these trucks are like 2kw or something, which is around 170A (2000/12=166A). The 24v starters are 4.5kw, and so then draw similar (4500/24=187.5A) from the factory. If you run a 4kw load at 12v, that's now a 375A draw.

Mind you, the wires only carry that current for a few seconds and only when starting, but those factory wires are already pretty small for what they are doing. I think it is something to be mindful of along with the state of any 30 year old connections as well. I would also be interested to know if the solenoid in the starter is going to be reliable with the increased current.

Maybe this jumper reduces the effective power of the motor somehow which keep the current in check? I'm assuming it would change the wiring of the windings to be different voltage, but similar power output. I'm not sure, but I am definitely curious.

This is literally a 2.6hp motor compared to a 6hp motor, and that extra power is why they turn over the engines so nicely in the cold.

 

[nickolai]

The wires right now carry 24v to the starter. If you eliminate the changeover relay and run it at 12v, that's half the voltage, and thus double the amperage, the wattage/power of the starter motor stays the same. Normal 12v starters on these trucks are like 2kw or something, which is around 170A (2000/12=166A). The 24v starters are 4.5kw, and so then draw similar (4500/24=187.5A) from the factory. If you run a 4kw load at 12v, that's now a 375A draw.

Mind you, the wires only carry that current for a few seconds and only when starting, but those factory wires are already pretty small for what they are doing. I think it is something to be mindful of along with the state of any 30 year old connections as well. I would also be interested to know if the solenoid in the starter is going to be reliable with the increased current.

Maybe this jumper reduces the effective power of the motor somehow which keep the current in check? I'm assuming it would change the wiring of the windings to be different voltage, but similar power output. I'm not sure, but I am definitely curious.

This is literally a 2.6hp motor compared to a 6hp motor, and that extra power is why they turn over the engines so nicely in the cold.

Yes i understand this. I should have been clearer in my initial post. Whilst the 24v starter will spin on 12v, I have swapped to a 12v starter. My point was that it's harder for people in North America to get hold of 12v starters than it is for us in New Zealand/

I also think people will be surprised how well they start on a 12v starter, but agree that 24v is better when its really cold. Caveat being that you're relying on a solenoid and a timer with a few years under their belt to work.

 

[1HaytchZed]

The wires right now carry 24v to the starter. If you eliminate the changeover relay and run it at 12v, that's half the voltage, and thus double the amperage, the wattage/power of the starter motor stays the same. Normal 12v starters on these trucks are like 2kw or something, which is around 170A (2000/12=166A). The 24v starters are 4.5kw, and so then draw similar (4500/24=187.5A) from the factory. If you run a 4kw load at 12v, that's now a 375A draw.

Mind you, the wires only carry that current for a few seconds and only when starting, but those factory wires are already pretty small for what they are doing. I think it is something to be mindful of along with the state of any 30 year old connections as well. I would also be interested to know if the solenoid in the starter is going to be reliable with the increased current.

Maybe this jumper reduces the effective power of the motor somehow which keep the current in check? I'm assuming it would change the wiring of the windings to be different voltage, but similar power output. I'm not sure, but I am definitely curious.

This is literally a 2.6hp motor compared to a 6hp motor, and that extra power is why they turn over the engines so nicely in the cold.

That makes sense. Thanks for the edumacation.
There's half the current on each battery leg...
Even the momentary overdraw of current would be too much for the undersized wires.

 

[Obrokoff]

New batteries for my dual battery hdj81.
LTO 60160.

 

[IanB]

That's interesting...are those 3D printed top and bottom caps?

 

[veiloctane]

Ive heard of this. Looking forward to real world testing and reviews thanks for posting. I wonder how you will manage the charging profiles.

New batteries for my dual battery hdj81.
LTO 60160.
View attachment 3066587View attachment 3066588View attachment 3066589View attachment 3066590View attachment 3066591

 

[franklin40]

I experience -20F/-30C in the winter so I'm not keen to drop 24V start. I have found some folks on here in the last week out of Canada who have 12V start but they don't report temperatures anywhere near -30C. I'd be willing to do it if someone else was the guinea pig! =)

However, changing to 12V start wouldn't affect my voltage regulation issue at all. I'd still have this same situation. Hopefully someone that understand the IC/regulator in there can chime in on what's going on here.

Thanks! Is the LED light that much better than the H1/4 upgrade or is it comparable?

Can't wait for the FJ62 version.

hey i’m in canada in saskatchewan so regularly see -30 to -40 temps. i went to. 12v alone system on my 1hdt in the fj62 and i’ve never had a cold start problem. i have an oil pan heater i plug in when i can and i also have a webasto installed i use most very cold days they truck has to sit outside but there have been a few days i forgot to put the timer on and it still starts. it blows a ton of smoke and doesn’t like it but it’s never not started. i have dual batteries so have good cranking reserve but honestly it’s never cranked more than three of four times before firing up

for the purpose of the thread this is what i’ve run….

probably paid more that i should because it says toyota on it but i’ve had them for nearly 10 years with zero problems until recently the one started to develop a lot of corrosion so i figured it was done. replaced both just last week. i believe they are tundra batteries.

 

[Obrokoff]

Ive heard of this. Looking forward to real world testing and reviews thanks for posting. I wonder how you will manage the charging profiles.

Earlier stock alternator changed to 130A 27060-46320.
Also after replacing batteries to LTO i adding 1n4007 diode to S line on alternator.
Voltage raised to 14.7 volts

All electric components works fine. I have no any problems.
Windows, sunroof moving faster. The winch got an additional power.
There are no voltage drawdowns.

 

[Obrokoff]

That's interesting...are those 3D printed top and bottom caps?

Yes. I have STL files. PM if you need it

 

[jellis]

Wow, LTO, never heard of this low temp lithium tech before! I'm very curious to see how it does in your wicked cold climate, but the specs look just fine! By the way @Obrokoff I went thru your build thread the other day, absolutely amazing you are incredibly capable and creative!!!

 

[veiloctane]

New batteries for my dual battery hdj81.
LTO 60160.
View attachment 3066587View attachment 3066588View attachment 3066589View attachment 3066590View attachment 3066591

looks like there's almost room to fit 12 cells in each battery box tray!!!!

 

[Obrokoff]

looks like there's almost room to fit 12 cells in each battery box tray!!!!

Yep

 

[Obrokoff]

Wow, LTO, never heard of this low temp lithium tech before! I'm very curious to see how it does in your wicked cold climate, but the specs look just fine!

This cell used on Chinese electric buses and other “cars on batteries”