Front Axle Rebuild - For FAQ (2 Viewers)

[cruiserdan]

For 30 years I’ve called them tie rod ends. That doesn’t seem to be the case - whatever the ends are that attach in three places to the steering arms on the bottom of the steering knuckles.

Right-hand tie rod end, 45047-69085
Left-hand tie rod end, 45046-69135
Right-hand relay rod end (attaches to front side of right steering knuckle), 45045-69065
Left- hand relay rod end (attaches to pitman arm) you might as well do that one too, 45044-69125

 

[BlutoF15]

Sorry if I am misunderstanding. Isn't 45046 (right side) and 45047 (left side) the part numbers for the tie rod ends? I order from Partsouq and Amayama and that is the way I read it. OK to slap me hard if I misunderstood post #572. I respond well to that from years of conditioning.

You are not. I believe you are correct and now have the luxury of cross referencing cruiserdan as well. I was drilled down into the diagrams and not recognizing the inset assembly. I’m usually pretty good at diagram reference, not this time. I’ll do better. The good news is - my new favorite tool is a thread file. I already have one ordered.

Also, front axle arm & steering steering knuckle is the kit you are getting from cruiserteq, but the axle shaft snap ring comes with the axle. Soooo....different kit? Part # for my truck 43411c. Your part # for your truck may be different....but probably the same part.

Understood. But the clip is like step 2 of the entire premise of the job (not counting removing the wheel, but after removing the dust cap.)

My heartburn with it is that nowhere is this considered a reusable part, and they even include a new clip with a birf (I know because I ordered two.) I also spoke with them on the phone to make sure I was ordering what I need.

So I get gaskets that I don’t even need but not the axle clip that starts the entire process? It’s not like I wouldn’t have ordered it if they’d just let me know it wasn’t included.

Right-hand tie rod end, 45047-69085
Left-hand tie rod end, 45046-69135
Right-hand relay rod end (attaches to front side of right steering knuckle), 45045-69065
Left- hand relay rod end (attaches to pitman arm) you might as well do that one too, 45044-69125

Many thanks. I will likely order these anyway, as at some point they need replacing and who knows when they won’t be available anymore. Insight is much appreciated.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I’ll keep it clean and say that’s…disappointing.

Just, wow. We have a different definition of the word “kit.”

FWIW, snap rings have never been included in our kits nor are they commonly included in any or the commercially available kits sold around the world by many different manufacturers/suppliers. There is no limit to the 'add-ons' that some would love to see on a 'kit' and are potentially disappointed daid item isnt included. We feel that we've curated a high quality kit that covers the 99% of users while offering anything/everything else as needed (with clear photos and descriptions of what is not included).

Fwiw it's my opinion most don't separate their birfs when doing a knuckle overhaul. For those that do, we cover those needs in our Knuckle Overhaul FAQ linked under the FAQ of the FA9097 kit:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What exactly are you trying to order? Call up cruiser outfitters they'll have it and can talk you through anything needed

For 30 years I’ve called them tie rod ends. That doesn’t seem to be the case - whatever the ends are that attach in three places to the steering arms on the bottom of the steering knuckles.

We offer a Japanese kit that includes all 4 ends for the 80 Series. Should you want OEM Toyota, we stock those in a kit too!

Tie Rod End Kit - Fits 1990-97 80 Series & 1998+ 105 Series LHD

Tie Rod End Kits for Toyota Land Cruiser Applications

cruiserteq.com

 

[cruiserdan]

I am not a fan of disassembling birfields unless absolutely necessary. It is a fairly violent process and I'm not inclined to pound on them just to swap sides or make it easier to clean them.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I am not a fan of disassembling birfields unless absolutely necessary. It is a fairly violent process and I'm not inclined to pound on rhem just to swap sides or make it easier to clean them.

I assumed that would be the clip @BlutoF15 was referring to but reading more it appears he's after the outer clip at the hub.

My opinion, while it's never a bad idea to replace them. It's hardly mandatory and if carefully removed... absolutely no reason they couldn't be reused as they have been countless (millions) of times on 4x/5x/6x/7x/8x/10x Cruisers around the globe. On the list of things we hear customers asking for the kits to include... that's not a top 5

Thrust Washers, spindle nuts, spindle bushings, drive flange cone washers, knuckle cone washers, AISIN hubs parts and dust caps would all be more often requested/ordered.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I am not a fan of disassembling birfields unless absolutely necessary. It is a fairly violent process and I'm not inclined to pound on rhem just to swap sides or make it easier to clean them.

I don't disagree. We've got a tube assemble at the shop that makes it pretty quick/clean that Olly uses on shop projects. On personal stuff, if I suspect the birfs enough to switch them... I'm replacing them.

 

[roflbox]

I had to remove the clips at the outer part of the hub a few times when I was wrestling with my front hub assembly.
I used the cruiserTEQ rebuild kit, and was pleased with it.
PO bought some of the 555 tie rod ends (dont know from who) but they are nice as well.

 

[BlutoF15]

FWIW, snap rings have never been included in our kits nor are they commonly included in any or the commercially available kits sold around the world by many different manufacturers/suppliers. There is no limit to the 'add-ons' that some would love to see on a 'kit' and are potentially disappointed daid item isnt included. We feel that we've curated a high quality kit that covers the 99% of users while offering anything/everything else as needed (with clear photos and descriptions of what is not included).

Fwiw it's my opinion most don't separate their birfs when doing a knuckle overhaul. For those that do, we cover those needs in our Knuckle Overhaul FAQ linked under the FAQ of the FA9097 kit:

View attachment 2954496

I assumed that would be the clip @BlutoF15 was referring to but reading more it appears he's after the outer clip at the hub.

My opinion, while it's never a bad idea to replace them. It's hardly mandatory and if carefully removed... absolutely no reason they couldn't be reused as they have been countless (millions) of times on 4x/5x/6x/7x/8x/10x Cruisers around the globe. On the list of things we hear customers asking for the kits to include... that's not a top 5

Thrust Washers, spindle nuts, spindle bushings, drive flange cone washers, knuckle cone washers, AISIN hubs parts and dust caps would all be more often requested/ordered.

Definitely the latter. As in, the clip at the end of the axle. While maybe “countless (millions)” of times have seen them reused, it’s also clearly listed as a non-reusable part in the parts diagram in post 305 on page 16 of this thread. I can’t imagine how any retaining C clip in any application is considered a reusable part. (See also - birfields.) The only way to remove it is to deform it after use by use of pliers. Again, it’s not like this was a stab in the dark. I called and asked the questions I thought were needed and made it clear that I was ready to order whatever was needed for the job, to the degree that some things I had in my cart and ready to purchase were removed based on recommendation. In other words, it’s not like I cheaped out on a c clip. That would have been far cheaper to order than the new flanges and spindles I was prepared to buy if needed And asked about. More on birfields below.

I don't disagree. We've got a tube assemble at the shop that makes it pretty quick/clean that Olly uses on shop projects. On personal stuff, if I suspect the birfs enough to switch them... I'm replacing them.

Agreed. They were clicking, so I ordered new ones. Those c clips were included.

This isn’t a question of parts that are considered reuse items. In case of failure, I ordered flange hardware replacement kits to get new cone washers, washers, and nuts. A standby set of studs, and a steering arm replacement hardware kit just in case.

There were surprises all around with the job so far, some good and some bad. This isn’t a character assassination, but people need to be aware that the “kit” doesn’t include replacement parts. Finding this out during reassembly is frustrating to say the least.

Could be worse. It could be the TG spindle nut gadget that doesn’t even fit on the axle. Fail. Maybe FZJ’s have a different size drive axle or something.

 

[-Spike-]

I've pulled birfs out of a lot of axles, and never deformed that clip. It's beefy as hell for the application, its function is pretty clear, and even if it did deform a slight plastic deformation wouldn't affect its ability to function properly. If it is installed, it can't go anywhere with the grease cap over it. I have several cabinets filled with new OEM spare parts of all kinds (axle to differential studs anyone? I keep them on hand, just in case!) but I've never considered buying new outer axle clips.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Definitely the latter. As in, the clip at the end of the axle. While maybe “countless (millions)” of times have seen them reused, it’s also clearly listed as a non-reusable part in the parts diagram in post 305 on page 16 of this thread. I can’t imagine how any retaining C clip in any application is considered a reusable part. (See also - birfields.) The only way to remove it is to deform it after use by use of pliers. Again, it’s not like this was a stab in the dark. I called and asked the questions I thought were needed and made it clear that I was ready to order whatever was needed for the job, to the degree that some things I had in my cart and ready to purchase were removed based on recommendation. In other words, it’s not like I cheaped out on a c clip. That would have been far cheaper to order than the new flanges and spindles I was prepared to buy if needed And asked about. More on birfields below.

View attachment 2954573






Agreed. They were clicking, so I ordered new ones. Those c clips were included.

This isn’t a question of parts that are considered reuse items. In case of failure, I ordered flange hardware replacement kits to get new cone washers, washers, and nuts. A standby set of studs, and a steering arm replacement hardware kit just in case.

There were surprises all around with the job so far, some good and some bad. This isn’t a character assassination, but people need to be aware that the “kit” doesn’t include replacement parts. Finding this out during reassembly is frustrating to say the least.

Could be worse. It could be the TG spindle nut gadget that doesn’t even fit on the axle. Fail. Maybe FZJ’s have a different size drive axle or something.

The only way to install that same clip is to "deform" it with pliers.

It doesn't have a duty cycle of one. As an engineer, I have zero issues calling it a reusable clip. This same finding is exactly why every kit on the market from Japan, Australia, India, etc doesn't include those.

I'll definitely mention it to our sales team to offer up. We dont want people short parts to finish a project, particularly when it's a part (FACL31007) we have on the shelf by the hundred. It's never made it to our FAQ guide for the same reason but it's easy to add and mention. We are very transparent with photos and descriptions of what is included... we will continue to be that way.

Full disclaimer. I don't know that I've ever had someone feel slighted that wasn't included in 30 years of selling tens of thousands of kits? Your absolutely right our "kit" (or all the others on the market) don't cover ever single part that could be needed. It's legitimately not on the 'top 10' of things we've been told shoulda/coulda been in the kit so I have no plans to add it, rather make sure we add it to the FAQ and sales team education.

The feedback is great and I definitely don't consider it character assassination. Our kits have the same (but Japanese) or more parts than TrailGear/Miku/Karsons/TrailTamer/Driveteq, etc so we all have room to improve in an attempt to cover 100% of the needs 100% of customers may encounter.

 

[BlutoF15]

I agree about your kits, that’s why I ordered one

I may go ahead and order the tie rod end kit, and I’ll definitely order new axle clips. I personally think that’s a replacement item. Not from an engineering standpoint, but humans are involved. And time - if this was a one owner truck and this was the first axle job and it was an actual duty cycle of one, maybe not. But it’s 30 years old and working on an unknown duty cycle.

I likely have bigger problems. Separate post.

 

[BlutoF15]

I have to assume this job changes slightly as the average 80 gets older, so here are issues good and bad, halfway through. I’ll finish with the good, for a positive note.

Bad
- Dirt/gunk. It’s worse than can be explained, which is saying something since this is talked about quite a bit. Parts washer solvent and wire brushes put up a decent fight, but be prepared for one. Obviously, YMMV

- Tie rod ends. Soaked up an hour and a half, and that was the driver side with only one to deal with. Unknown if the bottom threads were damaged by use or a puller. NOTE - buy a thread file. They are magical. And cheap.

- TG chromoly spindle nut. Neat concept, no idea what went wrong. The locking ring just flat out doesn’t fit. Unknown if there’s a different FJ/FZJ part or something, but it would take force to seat it. Just not okay over threads.

- Mystery. See summary below, but I’m probably going to take it back down and do over the reassembly. It just didn’t “feel right.”

Good!
- The notoriously pesky cone washers. One tap with a brass drift on the side of the flange and all but one came loose. A couple of taps on the nut, good to go. Luck?

- Birfield dis- and reassembly. Easier than expected.

- Same for bearing races. To be fair, the shop I was working in having multiple full sets of drivers helped.

- Watching the grease in a freshly packed birf ooze out when the axle is seated is very satisfying.

- I’ve not been friends with the FSM in many cases. This one however, it was awesome and very useful.

So after the notes issues with reassembly, I decided to put the driver side back together, and regroup. Truck is back home, noticeably quieter even with just one side done.

Everything was going back together very smoothly being cleaned and all of that beautiful fresh grease. Until the hub went on. Once the flange went back on - I could not get the hub spin preload loose enough. Everything just seemed tight. Then getting to the axle clip, it took considerable effort to pull the axle outward enough to even get the clip on. Not sure what happened here, so it will likely lead to yet another 2.9 quarts of fresh diff fluid, and probably a couple of seals and gaskets as I take it back down to the hub and try to find out what I did wrong.

Anyone else have the “it went back together fine but just doesn’t feel right” feeling after doing this? I’m open to suggestions of what to reaccomplish.

In all, counting parts and shop fees and two days and counting I think I should have just paid for the job. Maybe I’ll change my mind once it’s all done. (If you buy a truck that’s been a full restoration and is showroom clean, this is probably easier.)

 

[BillyGoatMTB]

Moly grease pushing out of the birf is super satisfying isn't it

I use @cruiseroutfit kits and have been happy with them. I have read hear on mud the Koyo kits are factory quality and I have read they are not. Maybe 25 years ago it was different but the Koyo quality looks spot on to me. And who doesn't love saving a little cheddar.

Call me superstitious but I did source factory front axle seals..... I have seen to many warnings hear on mud.

For my regear to 4:88 and ARB lockers job on both axles which were stripped down bare I only had an issue with preload on the rear wheel bearings, seemed like I had to really get that preload tight against the bearing to get the fish scale to read correct drag.

Oh..... And I installed the rubber outer knuckle seal black rubber groove backwards, however, Rubicon complete and other trails along with just under total 7k miles on highway no leaks..... I am now armed with the Wits End axle poster to keep me on track next time.

For tie rod ends I went with the Marlin crawler DOM steel bars and, 555 tie rod kit. Nice upgrade and pieces of mind. It's an option

 

[GLOCK10mm]

After doing this twice now, I'll throw in my .02:

I'd suggest adding a 2 pound brass hammer to the tool list either in addition to or in replacement of the brass drift. They are easier to find (Harbor Freight sells them), save some time, and come in a hell of a lot of handy in general.

No need to hold a drift on the studs when you can just tap the studs/flange until the cone washers come loose

Can feel free to beat the steering arms off and back on without damaging them. Smacking the arm also knocks those cone washers loose.

Makes getting the rotor off of the hub a breeze, 30 seconds per hub.

Outside of the front axle, I've found that these trucks are blunt instruments, and being able to smack something without worrying about deforming it has paid dividends. They are a good thing to have for the 80.

 

[lp2k]

I would add the 2 studs OTRAMM used which can be found at ace hardware when assembling, it helps to hold everything as you are putting the hub and gaskets together. once it is all together, you can unscrew them out.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

 

[Plains Cruiser]

I have heard clicking from my front diff on two occasions now while slowly turning but it's been at least 1,000 miles since I've last heard it. Right now my 80 is my daily until mid September - how careful should I be about driving off road until I can get the birfields rebuilt? If I throw in a weekend trip here or there with very light offroading, am I risking jeopardizing my only method of transportation or will the axle likely be fine?

 

[SpenserAK]

@Plains Cruiser Have you checked the grease level through the fill plug?

Checked the condition of your diff oil for contamination?

Are your balls dripping?

 

[bhsdriller]

I'm sure it'll be fine clicking isn't the end of the world. Check the grease level like he said and drive it