What did Toyota get right with the 80 series frame? (2 Viewers)

[jaymar]

So, costly or time-consuming option (depending)--but why not pull the frame, blast or acid-dip it, then galvanize or zinc coat + powder or epoxy primer and paint? Axles too. Should outlast the owner, right?

 

[JOFS]

Interesting read. My 1988 62 rotted out, but I bought it for peanuts as a cheap truck but I tried to sandblast and rust convert any rust on the frame. (granted this was 2003-2006 and the truck was a 1988). It did seem to rust out from the inside as I did try to fix everything I could externally. I didn't use fluid film and wool wax as I do now.

My 80 is still going strong and it always seemed to me to rust less than my 100s despite similar use in Maine. The variable is the 80 originally came out of Seattle. The confounding factor is my penchant for hosing down the undercarriage with fluid film or woolwax and the timing of salt exposure in Maine. But I bought my 1997 in I think 2004 and for the early years sprayed the undercarriage with wd40 (as I had no knowledge of other treatments at that time). It had also already been in Maine for a few years as it was purchased from a Navy lawyer who had lived in Seattle then come to Maine and then was transferring to Italy. He did nothing to prevent rust on the truck. I got my 100s years later but they were newer overall (I think I bought the 2005 in 2008 and the 2006 in 2013 and that was from a less rusty locale and I hosed them immediately with fluid film).

I know there is no reported difference in the frames but my experience was the 80 frame and body was better than the 100s. I worked on the 1997 over the last several days as my son is home from college, and was amazed at how it still has little rust on the frame and parts (but has a thick coat of combination fluid film and woolwax). It was in with Overland cruisers, out West where my son goes to school, for an complete eval prior to return to Maine for the summer and they commented on the massive amounts of oil and grime covering the frame (this appeared to be a negative comment to my read as it indicated the truck could require rust remediation elsewhere). When they then replaced the suspension, at their recommendation, they found no issues due to the "massive amounts" of oil and grime that they mentioned could require significant remediation, this "grime" was fluid film and woolwax covered by the dust from the dirt road we live on. The truck required no remediation for this "grime or rust". This grime is a savior for east coast trucks and I realize folks in the west may be puzzled by this. But I also saw my prior 100 series trucks have much more rust despite the same treatment. I lost ac lines and after I got rid of the 2005 I learned of it losing brake lines to rust as well as having rust through the rear quarter panel. (as the later buyer and I were able to connect here on mud as I recognized the truck and specific dents when he posted it up).

I am working on the 200 experience but have been overzealous with my application of fluid film and now woolwax (since new which removes variables) and expect minimal rust due to my pathology. But interestingly found my wife's trailer hitch on her 200 has way more rust (really minimal) than anything else on her truck or mine so I am investigating and treating. But I really was amazed that I see no rust anywhere else on her truck or mine but yet have the trailer hitch with a level of rust that I find out of proportion to what I see anywhere else. Which makes me wonder about variability overall on the metal used.

I am honestly very jealous of those who don't deal with salt and magnesium and calcium chloride but also love the snow and the sports associated and what these Land Cruisers can do in those conditions. I am also confident the trucks are the best option to safely get may family through the winter road conditions. Therefore my option is to do the best I can to give my trucks longevity and protection. But think that my experience did show that the 80 series had less rust than the 100 series even though this is purely observational.


John

 

[cahill]

Nice review of your experience with multiple iterations of the land cruiser and how they are holding up to rust.

 

[jaymar]

Interesting read. My 1988 62 rotted out, but I bought it for peanuts as a cheap truck but I tried to sandblast and rust convert any rust on the frame. (granted this was 2003-2006 and the truck was a 1988). It did seem to rust out from the inside as I did try to fix everything I could externally. I didn't use fluid film and wool wax as I do now.

My 80 is still going strong and it always seemed to me to rust less than my 100s despite similar use in Maine. The variable is the 80 originally came out of Seattle. The confounding factor is my penchant for hosing down the undercarriage with fluid film or woolwax and the timing of salt exposure in Maine. But I bought my 1997 in I think 2004 and for the early years sprayed the undercarriage with wd40 (as I had no knowledge of other treatments at that time). It had also already been in Maine for a few years as it was purchased from a Navy lawyer who had lived in Seattle then come to Maine and then was transferring to Italy. He did nothing to prevent rust on the truck. I got my 100s years later but they were newer overall (I think I bought the 2005 in 2008 and the 2006 in 2013 and that was from a less rusty locale and I hosed them immediately with fluid film).

I know there is no reported difference in the frames but my experience was the 80 frame and body was better than the 100s. I worked on the 1997 over the last several days as my son is home from college, and was amazed at how it still has little rust on the frame and parts (but has a thick coat of combination fluid film and woolwax). It was in with Overland cruisers, out West where my son goes to school, for an complete eval prior to return to Maine for the summer and they commented on the massive amounts of oil and grime covering the frame (this appeared to be a negative comment to my read as it indicated the truck could require rust remediation elsewhere). When they then replaced the suspension, at their recommendation, they found no issues due to the "massive amounts" of oil and grime that they mentioned could require significant remediation, this "grime" was fluid film and woolwax covered by the dust from the dirt road we live on. The truck required no remediation for this "grime or rust". This grime is a savior for east coast trucks and I realize folks in the west may be puzzled by this. But I also saw my prior 100 series trucks have much more rust despite the same treatment. I lost ac lines and after I got rid of the 2005 I learned of it losing brake lines to rust as well as having rust through the rear quarter panel. (as the later buyer and I were able to connect here on mud as I recognized the truck and specific dents when he posted it up).

I am working on the 200 experience but have been overzealous with my application of fluid film and now woolwax (since new which removes variables) and expect minimal rust due to my pathology. But interestingly found my wife's trailer hitch on her 200 has way more rust (really minimal) than anything else on her truck or mine so I am investigating and treating. But I really was amazed that I see no rust anywhere else on her truck or mine but yet have the trailer hitch with a level of rust that I find out of proportion to what I see anywhere else. Which makes me wonder about variability overall on the metal used.

I am honestly very jealous of those who don't deal with salt and magnesium and calcium chloride but also love the snow and the sports associated and what these Land Cruisers can do in those conditions. I am also confident the trucks are the best option to safely get may family through the winter road conditions. Therefore my option is to do the best I can to give my trucks longevity and protection. But think that my experience did show that the 80 series had less rust than the 100 series even though this is purely observational.


John

The trailer hitch is exposed on all sides. Dunno how big a deal it is, but you can put a 60 Series body on an 80 frame and get the best of both worlds, if 60s are your thing.

 

[OGBeno]

The recall years. I do not remember the range. Most of that went down after I retired. In addition I was in New Mexico and it was not an issue there.

The recall years have been expanded greatly now that Dana has paid almost $1.2 billion to Toyota for warranty.

MetalSA has nothing to do with the recall from the POV of contributing. They are a separate company and took over all frame manufacture from Dana.

The Mexico manufacture had nothing to do with the original frames.

 

[jaymar]

The recall years have been expanded greatly now that Dana has paid almost $1.2 billion to Toyota for warranty.

MetalSA has nothing to do with the recall from the POV of contributing. They are a separate company and took over all frame manufacture from Dana.

The Mexico manufacture had nothing to do with the original frames.

Yikes, I always thought of Dana as high-quality, based on their axles.

 

[SaturnAscends]

Good to know. Which years?

I think it was the entire production run, and AFAIK the issue persisted until at least 2007. The pre-Taco pickups didn’t have this issue to the same degree, though ironically the bodies were much more corrosion-resistant on the Tacomas than the older trucks.

The below images are some of the rust chips I pulled out of the frame rails on my old truck. It had been a Maryland/Virginia truck and the rest of the undercarriage was in good shape. Even the frame itself appeared solid from the outside, but inside was a different story. When I bought this a year and a half ago I had no idea such a thing was possible. From what was posted earlier it seems like the J60 might be similar. The Taco frame is also very light-duty though, not designed to stand up to sustained abuse like a LC or Hilux chassis IMO.

As mentioned before it seems like the J80 frames don’t exhibit this same “rotting from the inside out” phenomenon. Sure, they can develop surface rust and scaling, but it takes a lot to actually compromise them structurally.

So even if the frame manufacturing remained essentially the same for all series, I wonder if there weren’t some subtle differences in the milling/finishing/metallurgical processes. Perhaps they learned from their mistakes and tweaked the rust-proofing on the J80?

 

[ZetheGSD]

Living in the Midwest for most of my life, I can only speak to the Toyotas I have seen/worked on over the years. The 100 and 200 series cruisers rust substantially quicker than the 80 series cruisers that I have seen. A truck that will see the Midwest salt over a ten year period is usually my reference point of how well it will last for most owners.

The 100 series usually starts to degrade right behind the L/R tire at the frame crossmember and will rot from the inside out. I have patched multiple frames at this location as this area is usually the first to completely rot first, leaving the rest of the rust areas generally around the welds of the frame. The rear A/C lines usually corrode and require a host of parts and curse words to replace as it will leak when corroded/getting hit with normal gravel road driving.

The 200 frame seems to hold up better than the 100, but I find the rear crossmember area around the spare location to be the first culprit. The kicker with the 200 is the KDSS valve assembly seems to wither away and usually needs to be completely replaced as it will snap the mounting bolts or bleeder port if it ever needs to be unbolted for skid plates/slider installs.

The 80 Frames have sooooooo many more bolt in brackets that rarely fight me when unbolting for suspension installs or general maintenance. These brackets are littered all over the frame for sway bar links to exhaust mounts and even include rear shock mounts. Even with rusty 80 series cruisers these frame bolts seem to never snap off inside the frame rails which cannot be said for the two cruisers listed above. I know others mileage will vary, but this is my experience with many land cruisers that I have worked on over the years. Oh and can we all admit that Toyota made a superior frame on the 80 compared to almost every other model SUV or truck when it comes to the mounts for the rear shocks?!? Just unbolt the top mount rather than hate your life with a spinning upper shock body and a top stud that you can barely reach with a wrench when trying to replace shocks.

I have only good things to say about the 80 series frame when compared to other Toyota models. Oh and let's not even get started on the massive frame rot on the US market Toyota models like the early Sequoias and Tundras. Those frames completely wither away in the salty environments, just like the early Tacomas. There was also a frame replacement campaign for those models, which were probably involved in the Dana scandal of the early 2000's.

 

[bwakeling]

I picked up my 80 in 2013 and a 5th gen 4runner in late 2012. When I sold the 4 runner 6 or 7 years later it looked far rustier than the 80 did. Then our city decided to start using a liquid brine solution on the roads in the winter...enough that roads are free of ice in -30 Celsius. The 80 over the last two years of this has degraded substantially. mostly surface rust but it will be getting a healthy dose of wool wax this fall to staunch the bleeding. I hope its not too late. We also have a 2014 200 that I havent worked on but it will aslso be getting the treatment.

Will a healthy does of wool wax be enough or should I be wire wheeling and painting before wool wax?

 

[SaturnAscends]

I picked up my 80 in 2013 and a 5th gen 4runner in late 2012. When I sold the 4 runner 6 or 7 years later it looked far rustier than the 80 did. Then our city decided to start using a liquid brine solution on the roads in the winter...enough that roads are free of ice in -30 Celsius. The 80 over the last two years of this has degraded substantially. mostly surface rust but it will be getting a healthy dose of wool wax this fall to staunch the bleeding. I hope its not too late. We also have a 2014 200 that I havent worked on but it will aslso be getting the treatment.

Will a healthy does of wool wax be enough or should I be wire wheeling and painting before wool wax?

Yea that liquid brine stuff is terrible. Not necessary at all if people know how to drive in the winter, but I digress.

I'd sand it down in patches then treat with corroseal before applying woolwax.

 

[SNLC]

It is MAG, a magnesium chloride based liquid. Worse than salt for your Cruiser. Horrible on the environment as well.

Cheers

 

[bwakeling]

It is MAG, a magnesium chloride based liquid. Worse than salt for your Cruiser. Horrible on the environment as well.

Cheers

probably worse for my aggregate driveway than the cruiser too. I will get inside the frame, doors, ect so it will be saturated and seeping with oil.

 

[SNLC]

probably worse for my aggregate driveway than the cruiser too. I will get inside the frame, doors, ect so it will be saturated and seeping with oil.

Actually MAG was developed for sealing gravel roads. It is mixed with oil for that.

Cheers

 

[sunrk]

I can tell you at least one thing Toyota got very wrong - the steering box and upper front panhard mount location. When I first got my 80 in 2010 it was broken there. Got it repaired. It broke again and I got it fully plated so it won't break again.

I don't know exactly what Toyota changed in the 8/92 upgrade with the frame/chassis as I've never been in a position to compare. Only 80 I've owned/driven is my 3/92 manufactured one which is going to die due to body rust before anything else kills it.

 

[jaymar]

I can tell you at least one thing Toyota got very wrong - the steering box and upper front panhard mount location. When I first got my 80 in 2010 it was broken there. Got it repaired. It broke again and I got it fully plated so it won't break again.

I don't know exactly what Toyota changed in the 8/92 upgrade with the frame/chassis as I've never been in a position to compare. Only 80 I've owned/driven is my 3/92 manufactured one which is going to die due to body rust before anything else kills it.

Could be helpful to post pics of damage and repair, if you have them…

 

[Flight2k5]

im curious how the 60 series compares

 

[Devils Paw 80]

im curious how the 60 series compares

It's weaker and more prone to rust.

 

[Gappy]

I could be wrong but in my experience, for the 60 series, the frames are pretty solid forward of the rear axle. The first place for about any 60 series to rust is in the "C" channel over lap area (my terminology) on each side of the spare tire. The good thing about this is that this area is riveted and repairable. Kits can be purchased for this then you have to get really busy on some nasty rivets but very doable.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I could be wrong but in my experience, for the 60 series, the frames are pretty solid forward of the rear axle. The first place for about any 60 series to rust is in the "C" channel over lap area (my terminology) on each side of the spare tire. The good thing about this is that this area is riveted and repairable. Kits can be purchased for this then you have to get really busy on some nasty rivets but very doable.

Sounds similar to the first gen Tacoma frames. The c-channel area from the rear leaf springs back is usually where the rot starts; usually from the inside out. Although I don't know for sure, Toyota really seems to have been more diligent about rust-proofing on the 80 series, perhaps due to customer complaints on how fast the older trucks rusted, both on the frames and especially the sheet metal as well. Maybe they also used thicker steel to make them more corrosion-resistant.

Ironically the 100 series undercarriage appears to rust more aggressively than its predecessor, at least from what I've seen. I'm not sure on the 200 series.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I can tell you at least one thing Toyota got very wrong - the steering box and upper front panhard mount location. When I first got my 80 in 2010 it was broken there. Got it repaired. It broke again and I got it fully plated so it won't break again.

I don't know exactly what Toyota changed in the 8/92 upgrade with the frame/chassis as I've never been in a position to compare. Only 80 I've owned/driven is my 3/92 manufactured one which is going to die due to body rust before anything else kills it.

I thought they didn't fully fix that issue until the 105 series came out in 1998. But perhaps it was more prevalent in the 91-93 MYs.