Another starter thread (2 Viewers)

[bloc]

Put anti-sieve on BEFORE loosening manifold flange studs? You mean soak them with penetrant oil first? Are there any concerns with using penetrant oil (or anti-sieve for that matter) regarding the cats and O2 sensors?

Not penetrating oil, anti-seize. The nuts backed out a turn or two then started to gall badly, with one stud eventually twisting off. Probably due to rust on the exposed part of the stud. This was with penetrating oil on it.

I want the nut to back out across anti-seize and spread it out to keep threads from galling.. so I’d put the stuff on the stud up against the nut and even in the three slots at the end of it that are part of the self-locking function.

 

[kcjaz]

Not penetrating oil, anti-seize. The nuts backed out a turn or two then started to gall badly, with one stud eventually twisting off. Probably due to rust on the exposed part of the stud. This was with enervating oil on it.

I want the nut to back out across anti-seize and spread it out to keep threads from galling.. so I’d put the stuff on the stud up against the nut and even in the three slots at the end of it that are part of the self-locking function.

I'm with you now. I think that is twice now that you've told me something, I think you mean something else, but you really did mean what you said the first time...

 

[bloc]

I'm with you now. I think that is twice now that you've told me something, I think you mean something else, but you really did mean what you said the first time...

Hah, no worries. I have thoughts and pretty often it seems like they don’t come out in a format other people can interpret.

To be clear I don’t think penetrating oil is a bad idea, I used it. Just that in my case it wasn’t enough to avoid problems by itself, and my truck is relatively rust free.

 

[Jeriel Guerrero]

Does anyone know the denso mfg pn for the starter? I found these on rockauto and are wondering if they are the same as the toyota denso versions.

 

[scottm]

Curious, does anyone know what the root cause for the starter failure is? My starter went out in my old Camry and I found out it was due to the copper contacts wearing down and not making a good contact. Ordered up a rebuild kit and swapped out the contacts, which worked like a charm. Maybe this also applies to our starters?

There is already a very effective heat shield in place. Or at least there was one from the factory. It is double-layer corrugated aluminum, possibly with an insulative layer inside. No need to worry with extra stuff, toyota designed this spot really well.. it's just the contactor itself that is the issue and has been so on various toyotas for decades.

I used to keep contacts and plunger on hand for my 80, it was a pretty easy job to replace them. 100 has the starter under the intake, a bit more involved, but also $20 worth of copper contacts. Anyone know if the contacts can be replaced on these starters? Smaller starter I assume on my 2021.

 

[bloc]

I used to keep contacts and plunger on hand for my 80, it was a pretty easy job to replace them. 100 has the starter under the intake, a bit more involved, but also $20 worth of copper contacts. Anyone know if the contacts can be replaced on these starters? Smaller starter I assume on my 2021.

I opened mine up and the contacts weren't of the style in an 80, and many other toyotas before that. IIRC at least one of the relevant parts was plates of copper crimped together to make a solid block, vs the simple bent plates of the older style. I'm not sure what's in a 100.

You can get just the contactor and switch that out easily.. which is what I did with mine vs replace the whole unit as PM, since it is virtually always the contactor that dies. though it does still require removal of the starter to get the contactor off. 28150-38040 for a 2013 and 2020 (latest build I can get numbers for), other years may differ but I didn't check them. FYI I did check and the overall starter part number hasn't changed between 2013 and 2020, so if the updated part posted elsewhere on this board is in your newer vehicle it kept the old number.

I don't see part numbers for just the internal contacts on the diagrams, whereas they are easily located for an 80.

 

[supercarrera]

Does anyone know the denso mfg pn for the starter? I found these on rockauto and are wondering if they are the same as the toyota denso versions.

I bought 2800417 off RockAuto and installed it a couple years ago. It looked brand new. That's the one you want. It's the smaller, updated OEM starter.

 

[Jeriel Guerrero]

I bought 2800417 off RockAuto and installed it a couple years ago. It looked brand new. That's the one you want. It's the smaller, updated OEM starter.

Thank you! Btw: does anyone know the reason for the smaller starter?

 

[kcjaz]

There is already a very effective heat shield in place. Or at least there was one from the factory. It is double-layer corrugated aluminum, possibly with an insulative layer inside. No need to worry with extra stuff, toyota designed this spot really well.. it's just the contactor itself that is the issue and has been so on various toyotas for decades.



This should be complete IF you remove the manifold. Some people don't, but that requires dealing with a VERY difficult to get to heat shield bolt and mangling/bending the shields a bit.

Exhaust mani gasket (1) 17173-38020
Exhaust mani nut (8) 94151-80841 (just replace)
Exhaust mani stud (8) 90126-08052 (probably won't need these but not bad to have on hand if yours are rusty)
Exhaust mani heat shield bolt (3) 91673-A0614 (these are likely rusty, just replace)
Downpipe to mani gasket (1) 90917-06066
Downpipe to mani nut (3) 90179-10070
Downpipe to mani stud (3) 90126-10033 (one of mine galled badly and broke off)
Fresh air pipe gasket (1) 17377-38010
Fresh air pipe nut (2) 94151-80600 (same part number holds on a heat shield and gets hot, which can rust. Might as well get one or two extras)
(Edit to add: oil dipstick o-ring (1) 96721-19010)

You may also need (2) 90901-05020 bolts that attach the cat pipe to the muffler. Mine were surface rusted despite the rest of the truck being pretty clean. This junction has a braided graphite gasket that can be reused.

Get some good anti-seize, (I like nickel) but keep it away from the inner flow areas of the manifold. Some can mess up o2 sensors.

If I didn't post in this thread.. I had difficulty with this job. Even planning on removing the manifold. One downpipe nut came off clean, another galled but did come off, the third broke. Couldn't get the broken stud out, so took it to a machine shop.. they basically trashed the flange and ended up cracking a weld on the manifold. So for me add $400 and a few days to get a manifold.

Picked up my "starter replacement kit" parts today. Some of the parts from @bloc 's list have changed. Here's an updated list:

	Old number	New Number
Exhaust mani gasket (1)	17173-38020	17173-38021
Exhaust mani nut (8)	94151-80841	90178-A0048	x
Exhaust mani stud (8)	90126-08052	90126-A0019	x
Exhaust mani heat shield bolt (3)	91673-A0614	90119-A0285
Downpipe to mani gasket (1)	90917-06066	90917-06066
Downpipe to mani nut (3)	90179-10070	90080-17187	x
Downpipe to mani stud (3)	90126-10033	90126-A0011	x
Fresh air pipe gasket (1)	17377-38010	17377-0S010
Fresh air pipe nut (2)	94151-80600	90178-A0023
oil dipstick o-ring (1)	96721-19010	96721-19010
Exhaust mani spring bolt (2)	90901-05020	90080-10291

The parts with an "x" say "doesn't fix your vehicle" on the parts web site I used. I have a 2013 LC and while the site says "doesn't fit" the description says 2009 - 2021 LC plus I got these from Olathe Toyota parts desk and they have my VIN so I sure its OK and Toyota Parts sites I used are just wrong. Odd though cuz I checked this on two sites, one of which was Olathe Toyota.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I've done a handful now, yet to pull the manifold.

 

[bloc]

I've done a handful now, yet to pull the manifold.

Do the heat shields survive? And how do you handle the 10mm bolt for the starter heat shield?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Do the heat shields survive? And how do you handle the 10mm bolt for the starter heat shield?

Yes. It's a pain to get to but I dont recall it being impossible. I'll snap some pics on the next one.

 

[bloc]

Yes. It's a pain to get to but I dont recall it being impossible. I'll snap some pics on the next one.

I absolutely could not get the downpipe to clear the studs off the manifold... not sure what would be different about my truck. And, two of the nuts on those studs galled anyway, so the manifold had to come off regardless of whether I could get the starter out with it in place. In hindsight I should have put anti-seize on the exposed downpipe stud ends, PB blaster wasn’t enough.

Turns out it wasn’t that difficult to remove the manifold anyway. Despite my issues with the downpipe stud/nut all of the manifold nuts and studs were in great shape. But yes lots of extra parts.

 

[DuckNinja93]

Stock procedure has you remove the manifold and down pipe, then slide the starter rearward out the hole where the down pipe usually sits.

For whatever reason I could not get the down pipe to clear the song studs on the rear of the manifold without removing the mid pipe first. Also galled two of those studs badly, so the manifold was going to have to come out anyway. Even if I didn’t pull it, I didn’t see a way to get it out of the frame/body hole as others do without completely mangling the heat shields. Plus one heat shield screw in the starter is extremely difficult to get to, and I just don’t see how you’d get it back in once it’s out.

So I pulled the manifold. Fortunately toyota uses good hardware and I didn’t have problems with any of the nuts/studs.

Were I to do this again I would just follow the factory procedure from the beginning vs wrestle with the Tetris game that is trying to do it with the manifold in place. Oh and I’d definitely put anti-seize on the manifold/downpipe flange studs before loosening to try and prevent galling.

I'm doing this drill this weekend. I first tried the short cut you see on Tundra videos everywhere, but like you "Plus one heat shield screw in the starter is extremely difficult to get to, and I just don’t see how you’d get it back in once it’s out." I don't think folks both w/ that ... so after a failed 90-mins, took a day off and re-starting per Factory. I've been soaking the nuts w/ PBlaster past 24-hours, hoping it goes smoothly. I haven't purchased replacement bolts (missed that detail), I did buy and have on hand manifold gaskets. Nice to see some had that concern also.

I also replaced my water pump, thermostat, belt pulley, fan assembly and fan clutch, earlier this week, but haven't replaced the Radiator, etc. just yet as I figured the extra light/space might make this easier. Doesn't really help, but rig is already jacked up and wheel is off - so just keep going w/ it.

 

[bloc]

I'm doing this drill this weekend. I first tried the short cut you see on Tundra videos everywhere, but like you "Plus one heat shield screw in the starter is extremely difficult to get to, and I just don’t see how you’d get it back in once it’s out." I don't think folks both w/ that ... so after a failed 90-mins, took a day off and re-starting per Factory. I've been soaking the nuts w/ PBlaster past 24-hours, hoping it goes smoothly. I haven't purchased replacement bolts (missed that detail), I did buy and have on hand manifold gaskets. Nice to see some had that concern also.

I also replaced my water pump, thermostat, belt pulley, fan assembly and fan clutch, earlier this week, but haven't replaced the Radiator, etc. just yet as I figured the extra light/space might make this easier. Doesn't really help, but rig is already jacked up and wheel is off - so just keep going w/ it.

One tip.. put anti-seize on the exposed threads of the manifold to downpipe studs. The nuts on mine didn’t gall until they were a few turns out and I believe compound on there would have prevented the problem.

 

[DuckNinja93]

One tip.. put anti-seize on the exposed threads of the manifold to downpipe studs. The nuts on mine didn’t gall until they were a few turns out and I believe compound on there would have prevented the problem.

Thanks! They came off no problem. I have been drowning them w/ penetrating oil for the past 36-hours. I actually was able to replace the Starter w/out removing the Manifold exhaust - just removed the the lower exhaust assembly, that created a lot of space. I stopped once I re-connected the wiring. Going to tackle trying to put it all back together tomorrow. Have some ideas to get that one Heat Shield bolt in place. On the fence on whether or not it is worth it not removing the Manifold Exhaust. It has been a pain in the ass thus far.

 

[jeffk]

I have an HJ61 and am about to get in and replace the starter. Before I do thought I'd check in here and now I'm feeling tentative on how involved this might be given the comments with nuts n bolts breaking off etc.
Anyone done this on an HJ61 and any tips or do's / don'ts you can share?

 

[marketShark]

2 questions:
1) I THINK this happened to me over the weekend. Symptoms were initial click with no crank. 200 started with a jump. However, when I got home- I turned off the engine and attempted to crank. What sounded like the starter (whirring motor sound coming from engine bay) would spin and didn't seem to engage anything (I don't think the plunger is moving out to the flywheel). The whirring finally turned off after several seconds. I tried to start again and the whirring sound continued, and didn't auto cut off until I disconnected the battery from the terminal. I reconnected the battery to the terminal and the whirring sound resumed (which I thought was strange). So, I disconnected the cable from the terminal and put the battery itself on the charger for the night.

TLDR- has the situation of a starter motor whirring, continuing until I disconnected the battery, then resuming when the battery was reconnected happen to anyone else?



2) My local parts dept has same part number listed twice with two different prices. I was going to get the less expensive one unless there are any objections.

 

[TLC2013]

2 questions:
1) I THINK this happened to me over the weekend. Symptoms were initial click with no crank. 200 started with a jump. However, when I got home- I turned off the engine and attempted to crank. What sounded like the starter (whirring motor sound coming from engine bay) would spin and didn't seem to engage anything (I don't think the plunger is moving out to the flywheel). The whirring finally turned off after several seconds. I tried to start again and the whirring sound continued, and didn't auto cut off until I disconnected the battery from the terminal. I reconnected the battery to the terminal and the whirring sound resumed (which I thought was strange). So, I disconnected the cable from the terminal and put the battery itself on the charger for the night.

TLDR- has the situation of a starter motor whirring, continuing until I disconnected the battery, then resuming when the battery was reconnected happen to anyone else?



2) My local parts dept has same part number listed twice with two different prices. I was going to get the less expensive one unless there are any objections.

View attachment 3032892

How many miles on your 200? The sound you Describe is what has be worried enough to have a new starter on standby. I Plan on swapping it out before the original leaves me stranded. I am thinking around 125k I’ll install the new starter.

Thats a new one, identical part numbers and the one listed for the Lexus (LX570) is actually cheaper then the Toyota one.

 

[marketShark]

How many miles on your 200? The sound you Describe is what has be worried enough to have a new starter on standby. I Plan on swapping it out before the original leaves me stranded. I am thinking around 125k I’ll install the new starter.

Thats a new one, identical part numbers and the one listed for the Lexus (LX570) is actually cheaper then the Toyota one.

182k miles on my 200. Was thinking it *could* be the battery bc I dont drive as much lately and the summer has gotten off to a HOT start.

Well, I just changed the battery over lunch bc was within the first 12 months and I got it at Costco. Plugged it back together and no solenoid click.

By process of elimination, has to be the starter. I will get one ordered from Mr Toyota today.

Looks like the 45 is running daily driver duty in Texas summer heat this week. Black vinyl seats + Texas sun = burnt @$$ backside