Did you ever have transmission failure because you never changed the ATF? mileage? (1 Viewer)

[LC neophyte]

I would like to hear from folks who DO NOT routinely pull trailers or do heavy off-roading. I have always been impressed with the rigor and durability of the Toyota design and maintenance schedule, thinking that it is reasonable to maintain the vehicle. So, I'm a bit stumped when Toyota/Lexus advises that the ATF does not need to be changed for the lifetime of the vehicle (under normal driving circumstances). Of course, many members have examples of changing dirty fluid, but when in fact does the failure to change/exhange ATF result in transmission failure or hiccups? Please share if this has been your experience.

BTW, this is what Scotty says for what it's worth

 

[TexLexican]

I would like to hear from folks who DO NOT routinely pull trailers or do heavy off-roading. I have always been impressed with the rigor and durability of the Toyota design and maintenance schedule, thinking that it is reasonable to maintain the vehicle. So, I'm a bit stumped when Toyota/Lexus advises that the ATF does not need to be changed for the lifetime of the vehicle (under normal driving circumstances). Of course, many members have examples of changing dirty fluid, but when in fact does the failure to change/exhange ATF result in transmission failure or hiccups? Please share if this has been your experience.

I am curious why they got rid of the transmission dip stick and called it lifetime fluid. I have nothing technical to offer other than I don’t tow or off-road and I’ve heard that post 100k miles to only partially drain and fill if you’ve never touched the fluid before.

The video linked goes into more detail as the clutches in the transmission rely on old fluid to work properly. Flushing all of your old fluid will possibly dislodge particles which then will clog up any intricate features of the transmission.

I have personally only drained the pan on two vehicles post 100k and have not seen damaging results.

 

[Raj]

video linked

I too relied on his videos and Project 200 videos and got it changed at 53K miles. Will change it again at 90-100K miles.

 

[Raj]

Not just ATF, when asked Toyota to change power steering fluids, break fluids, diff oils, transfer oils, coolant they said these dont need to be changed. Other garages were also reluctant/or did wrong so I changed some on my own between 55-58K miles.

 

[doru]

I do not change power steering fluid unless I work on pump, hoses, etc. My cars have hundreds of thousands of miles and 20+ years on same fluid and that's for Toyota, Volvo and Subaru.

Transmission is a different beast. But even there I can safely go over 100K on same fluid.

I never personally heard of a failure because of the fluid not being replaced, just degraded performance as in rough shifting or hesitation. I guess that is enough to make the owner take notice, and the shop first fix is to change fluid which usually is the fix.

With manual transmission I do not have that early warning and so I do have to replace the fluid to prevent excessive wear especially with a tuned engine. But again I am not going crazy and still replace at between 60 to 100k when is convenient like not in the winter.

 

[bigredmachine]

Not just ATF, when asked Toyota to change power steering fluids, break fluids, diff oils, transfer oils, coolant they said these dont need to be changed. Other garages were also reluctant/or did wrong so I changed some on my own between 55-58K miles.

i would not go to that dealership then, all of those fliuds are serviceable and should be changed. pink coolant is 100k on first service 60k after that, break as needed or every few years regardless of miles, i personally recommended diff/t-case at 30 or 45k depending on usage to keep inline with the 90k service and p/s fluid as needed with no specific interval. it was fairly common to not really do much with the atf till around 100k unless there was some sort of work being done on the trans

 

[bigredmachine]

I would like to hear from folks who DO NOT routinely pull trailers or do heavy off-roading. I have always been impressed with the rigor and durability of the Toyota design and maintenance schedule, thinking that it is reasonable to maintain the vehicle. So, I'm a bit stumped when Toyota/Lexus advises that the ATF does not need to be changed for the lifetime of the vehicle (under normal driving circumstances). Of course, many members have examples of changing dirty fluid, but when in fact does the failure to change/exhange ATF result in transmission failure or hiccups? Please share if this has been your experience.

ive never seen failure due to lack of fluid changes, and that goes for cars not just trucks. ive seen trans fluid turn green due to age and wear and the trans still kept working, not saying that you should do that. personally ive never liked calling it lifetime and would start to recommend changing around 100k, the dealsrship i was at we had a flush machine and we never had any issues with a trans after a flush causing failure due to the age of the old fluid coming out.

 

[doru]

About the videos I do appreciate the help but I also consider that the comparison on color of the sample to justify the work is not an objective measurement. Just because the color changed it does not mean the fluid is not good.
If you want to find out for real send the oil for analysis to Blackstone Labs. I bet they will tell you that you 100k ATF can still be run. We here are OCD people... And that's fine as long as we know that

 

[bloc]

I am curious why they got rid of the transmission dip stick and called it lifetime fluid. I have nothing technical to offer other than I don’t tow or off-road and I’ve heard that post 100k miles to only partially drain and fill if you’ve never touched the fluid before.

The video linked goes into more detail as the clutches in the transmission rely on old fluid to work properly. Flushing all of your old fluid will possibly dislodge particles which then will clog up any intricate features of the transmission.

I have personally only drained the pan on two vehicles post 100k and have not seen damaging results.

They went away from dip sticks because it is cheaper, less confusing for the average car buyer, and they aren’t worth those compromises given a transmission without visible leaks shouldn’t actually need the fluid level checked until a fluid change where you are under the vehicle anyway.

As for claiming it’s lifetime.. marketing BS, but marginally allowable in the context of people only owning their vehicles to 100k. For anyone asking 200, 3, or 4.. it needs to be done, regardless of whether they are towing or it hasn’t been changed before 100k.

Whether junk getting knocked loose by a change will ruin an otherwise functioning transmission depends a lot on the junk in there and the state of the fluid. These transmissions in particular are easy on fluid.. the fact that they are as reliable as they are, used as hard as they get used, on conventional ATF is testament to that. I’d have zero issue dumping original fluid from a 150k mile AB-60F and getting fresh stuff in there, and am convinced that is absolutely the correct strategy.

Not just ATF, when asked Toyota to change power steering fluids, break fluids, diff oils, transfer oils, coolant they said these dont need to be changed. Other garages were also reluctant/or did wrong so I changed some on my own between 55-58K miles.

A dealer saying they don’t need to be changed isn’t at all the correct advice, it simply reflects they think they can make more money elsewhere. Many LX owners have been told AHC is a sealed system and the fluid can’t be changed.. whether they know that’s untrue or not isn’t clear, but it is an absurd statement either way.

I totally support us doing this stuff ourselves, and there are a bunch of different strategies for intervals and methods (I suck the PS fluid out of the reservoir and refill at every oil change) but we all need to be aware dealers with their laziness and profit motive are not at all the authority on this stuff.

 

[LC neophyte]

Judging from the responses, it appears that most of us "believe" it's just a good idea to change the ATF, and admit that we are OCD. I agree. I lube anything that moves, I clean my engine compartment, spray corrosion protection on the underbody and fitting and nuts, kick the dirt off my shoes before I get in, make the car techs thumb tighten the oil fill plug (I don't want plier marks to gouge the plug), and other OCD practices. We appreciate these vehicles, so our level and intensity of care exceeds preventative maintenance standards. Because of this, I suspect that we won't come across anybody who has had tranmission failure because they never changed the ATF. If anybody comes across this in the future, please return and post. Thanks for the responses!

 

[Sandroad]

Judging from the responses, it appears that most of us "believe" it's just a good idea to change the ATF, and admit that we are OCD. I agree. I lube anything that moves, I clean my engine compartment, spray corrosion protection on the underbody and fitting and nuts, kick the dirt off my shoes before I get in, make the car techs thumb tighten the oil fill plug (I don't want plier marks to gouge the plug), and other OCD practices. We appreciate these vehicles, so our level and intensity of care exceeds preventative maintenance standards. Because of this, I suspect that we won't come across anybody who has had tranmission failure because they never changed the ATF. If anybody comes across this in the future, please return and post. Thanks for the responses!

Hmmmm……..Is there something else to consider? We’ve definitely had members report smoother shifting and better transmission behavior after fresh fluid. Admittedly that’s more subjective than using the extreme case of outright failure as a measure of whether it’s worth a doing an exchange, but I’ll make an experienced guess that it’s possible a transmission likes new fluid.

 

[LC neophyte]

Hmmmm……..Is there something else to consider? We’ve definitely had members report smoother shifting and better transmission behavior after fresh fluid. Admittedly that’s more subjective than using the extreme case of outright failure as a measure of whether it’s worth a doing an exchange, but I’ll make an experienced guess that it’s possible a transmission likes new fluid.

Agreed. I don't think anyone would argue with clean fluid, but I'm trying to gather data points as to when the transmission would fail. I would define "failure" as : unable to shift to the next gear or repeatedly slipping every time you drove the vehicle. Otherwise, subjective factors come into play. For example, my LC always runs and handles better after I have it detailed, and the oil and filter changed. Other factors are more objective, but are temperature dependent and not indicative of failure. Your LC will feel stiff and shift more poorly when it is -5ºF in Lansing, MI in January, vs. 85ºF in July in the Upper Peninsula where you will experience better behavior on start up.

 

[Artie]

kick the dirt off my shoes before I get in,

I do this, regardless of the car I drive. Even back when I had sh*tboxes…it might break down but it was clean.

Once, I dated this girl and we had been on a day hike. She kicked the dirt off her boots before getting in… I married that girl.

 

[slipkid13]

Not just ATF, when asked Toyota to change power steering fluids, break fluids, diff oils, transfer oils, coolant they said these dont need to be changed. Other garages were also reluctant/or did wrong so I changed some on my own between 55-58K miles.

I would avoid any mechanic who says brake fluid is lifetime fluid LOL The Toyota/Lexus maint. scheduled shows changing Diff fluids.

 

[Sandroad]

Judging from the responses, it appears that most of us "believe" it's just a good idea to change the ATF, and admit that we are OCD. I agree. I lube anything that moves, I clean my engine compartment, spray corrosion protection on the underbody and fitting and nuts, kick the dirt off my shoes before I get in, make the car techs thumb tighten the oil fill plug (I don't want plier marks to gouge the plug), and other OCD practices. We appreciate these vehicles, so our level and intensity of care exceeds preventative maintenance standards. Because of this, I suspect that we won't come across anybody who has had tranmission failure because they never changed the ATF. If anybody comes across this in the future, please return and post. Thanks for the responses!

I know your first post specifically mentioned normal use, but I think it’s worth noting that many (most?) on Mud run their 200s under what Toyota defines as Special Operating Conditions which include towiing, heavy loading, and low speed driving for long distances. Under those conditions, ATF is to be replaced every 60K miles.

 

[TimCFJ40]

I recently changed the fluid on my '08 with 257k miles on it. I have no record of this ever being done, and it definitely hasn't been done in the time I've had it (4 years and the last 55k miles). Before the change I had some occasional mushy shifting, and in the morning it took 10 seconds for the transmission to "grab" when put in gear the first time of the day. A complete fluid change remedied these issues. I think Toyota deems this a lifetime fluid as in the lifetime most people expect from a vehicle. As second and third and fourth owners take advantage of the incredible longevity of these vehicles, there's no way any transmission or fluid can stand up for 15 years and 300k miles without some degradation....

 

[LC neophyte]

I recently changed the fluid on my '08 with 257k miles on it. I have no record of this ever being done, and it definitely hasn't been done in the time I've had it (4 years and the last 55k miles). Before the change I had some occasional mushy shifting, and in the morning it took 10 seconds for the transmission to "grab" when put in gear the first time of the day. A complete fluid change remedied these issues. I think Toyota deems this a lifetime fluid as in the lifetime most people expect from a vehicle. As second and third and fourth owners take advantage of the incredible longevity of these vehicles, there's no way any transmission or fluid can stand up for 15 years and 300k miles without some degradation....

Thanks for the post. Demonstrates an objective deficiency in performance that was rectified with ATF change. Exactly what I was curious about. But, I wonder if there would be any other vehicle that could make it this far with so little degradation? Still seems pretty durable to roll for 257k and just have minor problems. I wonder what that fluid looked like after 14 years!

 

[TimCFJ40]

Thanks for the post. Demonstrates an objective deficiency in performance that was rectified with ATF change. Exactly what I was curious about. But, I wonder if there would be any other vehicle that could make it this far with so little degradation? Still seems pretty durable to roll for 257k and just have minor problems. I wonder what that fluid looked like after 14 years!

The fluid was pretty dark, but not cloudy. Didn't smell burnt.

 

[bentonrover]

I too also have a 2008 LC. I changed mine out at 205k and again around 210k. It was just typical drain and fill. I had no record on it ever being done. Which is strange cause this vehicle seen nothing but the dealer its whole life. Folder fill with paperwork and receipts. Toyota owners website confirmed. The only reason I changed was because I didn't see any transmission fluid change out. It still drives the same as if I never touched it. Silky smooth except for the occasional stop sign roll then accelerate jerk. Which seems to be normal. Early models for some reason didn't have the updated software like newer 8 speed models got. Looks like a fine bucket of merlot.

 

[TexLexican]

My Rav 4's looked like that @ 130k after no attention.

Now, if you're putting in the same amount of fluid as you're taking out (both old and new fluid at about the same temp.) is there any issue with that? I've seen videos of people letting the fluid get to a certain temp and pulling the overfill plug. I would think this would be necessary for only complete drains...