Starter issues 1977 fj40 (2 Viewers)

[jetyancey]

Does anyone know if my 77 FJ40 should have an aftermarket starter relay !? Please excuse my ignorance, I’m not an auto electrician or mechanic by any means. It seems the hot + wire from the ignition should go to the starter circuit on the starter solenoid … is this a work-around when/if the starter solenoid stopped !? Factory ignition seems to still be in place.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Does anyone know if my 77 FJ40 should have an aftermarket starter relay !? Please excuse my ignorance, I’m not an auto electrician or mechanic by any means. It seems the hot + wire from the ignition should go to the starter circuit on the starter solenoid … is this a work-around when/if the starter solenoid stopped !? Factory ignition seems to still be in place.

View attachment 3003065

NO

it should not ?



that's PO monkey business right there .......

 

[TheHardWay]

Well, this is awkward.

As the newly classified PO, I feel it's my obligation to state for the Mud record, IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!

Having said that, I believe it is my obligation to help young Pat get his newly acquired rig back on the road and that frustration frown returned to its natural state of the FJ40 smile.

When I bought this magnificent beast 8 years ago it was wired this way. Since I knew next to nothing about Landcruisers at the time, what mattered most was that when I turned the key it fired up without issue. And for 8 years that's what it did , without fail. Like many of you, I follow the if it ain't broke don't fix it philosophy, so I can state that when Pat came to get it, it started right up for the test drive, again when we backed it up onto the trailer, and I'm guessing also when Pat unloaded it when he got home.

Before we dig into the diagnostics I can provide some known knowns that should keep us from unhelpful assumptions:

The alternator is a rebuild, on the rig when I got it
The voltage regulator was removed when I got it
The relay and brown wiring in the above pic was installed when I got it
My memory ain't what it used to be, but I recall reading in a Mud thread that newer alternators had the voltage regulator on board

Let the diagnostic interrogation begin... anyone see a connection here?

 

[TheHardWay]

Okay, I'll begin - Pat, after you returned from bouncing around the Alabama backroads shakedown cruise, did the starter fail, or did it start a few more times before failing?

 

[jetyancey]

Okay, I'll begin - Pat, after you returned from bouncing around the Alabama backroads shakedown cruise, did the starter fail, or did it start a few more times before failing?

Mannnn you’ve done a lot for me already. . I didn’t want to be a pest ! Thank you so much for the continued help !!! The relay would click but the starter had no action. My thoughts are to get a new starter solenoid and rebuild the starter and do away with the work-around relay previous to both of us. I’m suspicious that the starter solenoid broke so this relay is the work-around.

 

[DickM]

I’m suspicious that the starter solenoid broke so this relay is the work-around.

From your picture, this appears to be the case.
Do yourself a favor, and buy a complete starter/solenoid unit to replace what you currently have, unless you have a nice downhill slope to park on until you cobble the used mess you have now back together, and unless you really just want to spend the time and money to see if you can rebuild it.
A new unit is a 15 minute plug and play exercise and you get a warranty. Napa just gave me new starter for the one I got from them 10 years ago.
Good luck which ever way you go.

 

[Green Bean]

Or go OEM on a gear reduction starter (smaller and lighter) Part # 28100-60070-84) (last year: $88.30 + $60 core charge)

 

[TheHardWay]

Can't argue against that - I've replaced both original starters on my 77 and 78 with gear reduction starters. Why not pull your starter and test it and the solenoid without the relay connection? That way you'll be able to confirm or rule out your solenoid suspicion.

 

[jetyancey]

Can't argue against that - I've replaced both original starters on my 77 and 78 with gear reduction starters. Why not pull your starter and test it and the solenoid without the relay connection? That way you'll be able to confirm or rule out your solenoid suspicion.

can you confirm the part # above ? 28100-60070-84 I found it at Toyota parts deal . Com but it’s says it can’t verify it’ll fit. Or what part # you used Dana ?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Does anyone know if my 77 FJ40 should have an aftermarket starter relay !? Please excuse my ignorance, I’m not an auto electrician or mechanic by any means. It seems the hot + wire from the ignition should go to the starter circuit on the starter solenoid … is this a work-around when/if the starter solenoid stopped !? Factory ignition seems to still be in place.

View attachment 3003065

MY KIT comes with all the UPDATED and CORRECT OEM TOYOTA Mounting hardware too


also

a hand made YAZAKI JAPAN Service PLUG connector pigtail U need to convert to gear reduction type



i have TRULY a plug and play KIT , no one else does


i set you up for success 100%

Optional & Highly Recommended ! F, F1.5 , 2F , 3FE Starter Motor Optional Installation Hardware and Mounting Kit Nuts Bolts Spring Washers - VintageTEqParts.com

Highly Recommended ! F, F1.5 , 2F , 3FE Starter Motor Optional Installation Hardware and Mounting Kit Nuts Bolts Spring Washers

vintageteqparts.com

VintageTEqParts.com

vintageteqparts.com

 

[Green Bean]

There has been a lot of discussion.

Gear Reduction Starter for FJ40, FJ60 (NEW) First Impressions

Just bought one too based on this thread. Thanks everyone. Well... is it in yet?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[TheHardWay]

can you confirm the part # above ? 28100-60070-84 I found it at Toyota parts deal . Com but it’s says it can’t verify it’ll fit. Or what part # you used Dana ?

I found both in Mud classifieds, used but for the price ($35 and $60) were worth the risk. Both have proven to be trouble free replacements. The reason ToyotaPartsDeal can't verify fit is because they weren't standard equipment in 77, but they'll fit.

 

[TheHardWay]

Pat, here's a pic of one of them - the part number is on the label:

 

[Skreddy]

I have used 2 different gear reduction starters and both fit with no issue on a 1970 and 71 (1 Amazon and 1 Toyota). They are fantastic.

That said, I have a working stock starter(s) off above mentioned 40’s. If you want one it’s yours for the cost of shipping.

 

[brooklyn]

Well, this is awkward.

As the newly classified PO, I feel it's my obligation to state for the Mud record, IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!

Having said that, I believe it is my obligation to help young Pat get his newly acquired rig back on the road and that frustration frown returned to its natural state of the FJ40 smile.

When I bought this magnificent beast 8 years ago it was wired this way. Since I knew next to nothing about Landcruisers at the time, what mattered most was that when I turned the key it fired up without issue. And for 8 years that's what it did , without fail. Like many of you, I follow the if it ain't broke don't fix it philosophy, so I can state that when Pat came to get it, it started right up for the test drive, again when we backed it up onto the trailer, and I'm guessing also when Pat unloaded it when he got home.

Before we dig into the diagnostics I can provide some known knowns that should keep us from unhelpful assumptions:

The alternator is a rebuild, on the rig when I got it
The voltage regulator was removed when I got it
The relay and brown wiring in the above pic was installed when I got it
My memory ain't what it used to be, but I recall reading in a Mud thread that newer alternators had the voltage regulator on board

Let the diagnostic interrogation begin... anyone see a connection here?

I have often wondered what the next owner of my FJ40 will say about my truck . I once found someone who bought my first FJ40 after a few resales to other owners. He had all sorts of questions about some of the “mods”. Your lucky, you know the PO! Also, 100% upgrade the starter— you will be very happy you did!

 

[jetyancey]

I have often wondered what the next owner of my FJ40 will say about my truck . I once found someone who bought my first FJ40 after a few resales to other owners. He had all sorts of questions about some of the “mods”. Your lucky, you know the PO! Also, 100% upgrade the starter— you will be very happy you did!

Previous owner maintained this 40 very very well. It’s just a wear item that failed. I’ve seen a lot of suggestions from Amazon to denso.

 

[Skreddy]

Previous owner maintained this 40 very very well. It’s just a wear item that failed. I’ve seen a lot of suggestions from Amazon to denso.

The Amazon one I got came in a denso box with denso label on the starter. It was listed as a different brand on Amazon.

 

[TheHardWay]

Pat, you will learn alot about batteries, solenoids and starters from this thread - a classic on the fine art of electrical diagnosis! :

no power to anything - battery charged (solved)

Is there a ground wire, usually a big cable or a mesh strap, from the starter to the frame?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jembourbe]

Or go OEM on a gear reduction starter (smaller and lighter) Part # 28100-60070-84) (last year: $88.30 + $60 core charge)

Do this ^^. Toyota put these on the 2F in the 60. You'll need to keep that relay, however, to provide full battery voltage during cranking.

 

[fjwagon]

I will say this about the "monkey business" relay, most electrical circuits will have a relay. So I can why a relay was installed but in this case the solenoid on the starter acts as the relay. Sometimes cleaning the battery cables on both ends (- &+) may help. I sometimes use a booster cable as as jumper between the the starter and the battery. If don't help remove it an load test it. The nice thing about the the gear reduction starter is it has nice torque to spin the flywheel but with less current. You may a difference when starting the engine....just saying for others whom want to convert.