Rain Gutter and Top Restoration (1 Viewer)

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Here is the rear hatch brace. When I removed the rubber piece you see here, the metal looked in good shape (not rusted out).

However, one problem... the nut that holds this bolt in place just spins and spins. Any suggestions on how to remove it without having to cut the side out, and access it that way?

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Not sure about what to do with that spinning bolt. But clearly your top was made in August 1766.

What?

😂
 
Here is the rear hatch brace. When I removed the rubber piece you see here, the metal looked in good shape (not rusted out).

However, one problem... the nut that holds this bolt in place just spins and spins. Any suggestions on how to remove it without having to cut the side out, and access it that way?

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No good ways, here is what you're dealing with inside the header. The nut is captured in a steel cage...I'd imagine yours did just like this one and the cage rusted away leaving the square nut free to spin. You will likely need to drill a access hole and tack weld the nut in place then weld up your access hole... This will mean the angle bracket is no longer adjustable. Or you could cut the end wide open and re create the nut cage. Other options are replace the header or make peace with it and do whatever additional work you're planning on with the bracket in place.

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No good ways, here is what you're dealing with inside the header. The nut is captured in a steel cage...I'd imagine yours did just like this one and the cage rusted away leaving the square nut free to spin. You will likely need to drill a access hole and tack weld the nut in place then weld up your access hole... This will mean the angle bracket is no longer adjustable. Or you could cut the end wide open and re create the nut cage. Other options are replace the header or make peace with it and do whatever additional work you're planning on with the bracket in place.
Ugh. I checked for a new header and saw real jacked up ones going for a lot. I am thinking the best thing to do is cut the side open and try and repair it.
 
I had the same issue with the spinning nut inside the header. A welder friend of mine came up with a good solution. Old bolt was cut off. The square nut on the inside was punched out. He drilled a hole in the header just big enough for a regular hex nut then welded it flush with the header. This approach was minimally invasive compared to opening up the header to weld in a new captured nut. Sorry no pics of the process.
 
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I had the same issue with the spinning nut inside the header. A welder friend of mine came up with a good solution. Old bolt was cut off. The square nut on the inside was punched out. He drilled a hole in the header just big enough for a regular hex nut then welded it flush with the header. This approach was minimally invasive compared to opening up the header to weld in a new captured nut. Sorry no pics of the process.
ohhh i like that idea! I will cut it off!!!
 
I had the same issue with the spinning nut inside the header. A welder friend of mine came up with a good solution. Old bolt was cut off. The square nut on the inside was punched out. He drilled a hole in the header just big enough for a regular hex nut then welded it flush with the header. This approach was minimally invasive compared to opening up the header to weld in a new captured nut. Sorry no pics of the process.

Voilà! Knocked it out this afternoon. I used a Dremel with a cutting wheel to get in the tight spot.
I am going to do the same thing you suggested and weld a nut there. Thanks for the idea!

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Thought I'd circle back to this thread after riveting my gutter back on and share some advice...

  • Firstly... don't buy the CCOT rivets. two problems:
    • they are too big in diameter. They're 3/16, while the original was 1/8". This means you have to drill out the OEM holes. Not hard or time consuming, just unnecessary. The issue is that although 1/16 oversized rivets don't seem like a big difference, it makes a pretty big difference if you want to use a rivet squeezer rather than an air hammer and buck... it requires a lot more force.
    • The domed heads are too big. They are so big that they don't rest flat on the lip of the fiberglass top in some places- they catch where the top curves up to the roof. If I had used them, I could've damaged the fiberglass.
    • I find this super annoying- properly sized rivets are easy to source. The only value CCOT brings to the market by offering them for sale is saving you research to figure out the right size... and they didn't even get that right. I didn't realize the heads were too big until I drilled out all of the holes, so I ended up having to buy 3/16 x 3/8" rivets on mcmaster carr.
  • Secondly, don't bother with making the vice grip style rivet squeezers (I made some like the ones shown in this video). and I can't imagine using the rebar and hammer method that CCOT recommends- I have no idea how you'd do that without accidentally smacking the fiberglass. I was really worried that using an air hammer and buck would damage the fiberglass- this turned out to be unfounded. It could be because I drilled out all of my rivet holes to accommodate the CCOT rivets, but my hands were really feeling it after squeezing about 20 of the rivets with the vice grip tool. It took a three or four squeezes for each rivet. I bought a good set of oversized vice grips to add leverage, but it still took a lot of force... and the bucked side of the rivets didn't really dome out like I wanted... they almost looked like pop rivets on the bottom. After realizing my hands wouldn't survive, I ran to the big box store and bought an air hammer for $50, and a set of chisels. I cut the end of the chisel attachment off and drilled a domed recess in the end to rest against the rivet head. I sacrificed a dolly from my hammer and dolly set to act as the buck (drilled another domed recess in it). The key is to turn the air pressure way down on the air hammer, way below the normal operating range. I was able to buck all of the rivets in like 20 minutes. It was WAY WAY easier than the vice grip rivet squeezer method, and it looks a lot better to have a more domed rivet on the underside. If I were doing it over again, I would've bought proper riveting tooling (buck and air hammer bit) for the size of rivet I was using- I didn't get the DIY versions quite right, which resulted in somewhat irregular shaping to the rivets on the underside. Good enough for me though. I didn't take a great close up pic of the bucked rivets, but you can sort of make them out in the below pic after paint.
  • Spend the dough on a good 2 part epoxy seam sealer. I used the attached stuff from 3M- super impressive and easy to dispense. Downside is you have to buy the special caulk gun. I'm doing a full frame-off restoration, so I had lots of seam sealer to apply... so the gun was worth it in my case. You can see how nicely it leveled out for me.
I was kind of dreading this process after reading some comments on this forum, but it wasn't bad at all.

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ok, one more bit of advice and I'll shut up. If you go the air hammer route, then you might as well just rivet the visor on as well. It was really easy to do. I bought some stupidly expensive stainless "truss head screws" that approximate the appearance of a rivet (god I love mcmaster carr), but ended up just riveting it. again, super easy. only took a few minutes.
 
Looks fantastic.
 
ok, one more bit of advice and I'll shut up. If you go the air hammer route, then you might as well just rivet the visor on as well. It was really easy to do. I bought some stupidly expensive stainless "truss head screws" that approximate the appearance of a rivet (god I love mcmaster carr), but ended up just riveting it. again, super easy. only took a few minutes.
same rivets as the rail?
 
same rivets as the rail?

Yep, same size for the gutter and visor. but keep in mind I used oversized rivets (3/16" diameter, 3/8" length). So I had to enlarge the holes slightly. These:

 
Yep, same size for the gutter and visor. but keep in mind I used oversized rivets (3/16" diameter, 3/8" length). So I had to enlarge the holes slightly. These:


Nice, thanks. I'm going through the same steps now. I bought this hand rivet squeezer but it still is a bit of a pain.


Yours turned out well, nice job.
 
Yep, same size for the gutter and visor. but keep in mind I used oversized rivets (3/16" diameter, 3/8" length). So I had to enlarge the holes slightly. These:


One more question - did you apply any seam sealer or other product between the visor and fiberglass before riveting?
 

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