ARB + PTO - cut or run? (1 Viewer)

[JDM Journeys]

I've always loved the idea of a PTO winch, so when my rig came with one (in the back, not hooked up) I was excited to finally try one. It never did get installed, since last spring I got an ARB bumper. There are a few excellent threads where folks have mated the two and its worked, but everytime I think about cutting a big hole in my new bumper, I hesitate. Part of me wonders if I'd be better off selling the bits and getting an electric and bolting it up. Yes, there's the whole 24v thing to deal with but still...

For those who have had both setups, or who have managed to make their pto fit their ARB: Worth it? Would you do it again?

 

[Gun Runner 5]

It was sold some time ago but my BJ74 had a PTO winch / ARB bumper combo.

 

[Rigster]

Phil!! Phrankenphit it!! Make it happen!

 

[fireball]

I really like my PTO winch. If it were me I'd invest the time/effort into integrating it with the ARB.

 

[Knowbuddy]

I am opposite. I think the PTO is super cool. But the ease of an electric winch wins in my mind. Especially if yours is not currently installed. When I got my hj61 I wanted PTO and front porch really bad but economically it made more sense to go the electric route.

 

[janyyc]

I think you have to decide for yourself (stating the obvious here). The PTO winch is cool, you have all the necessary mounting/equipment - some people spend a lot of time searching for it. OTOH I completely understand if you just say "hey it's not worth the time/effort, I want to have this on the road and an electric winch is just fine".

 

[AirheadNut]

I would say keep the PTO winch and make it fit if possible. I briefly had a BJ73 with a PTO winch and really liked it. They're extremely robust (once you upgrade the shear pin) and dirt simple. The other benefit is that you don't have to worry about overheating the winch on a long pull, and it doesn't put large stresses on the relatively small alternator on a stock 1HZ. There's also the cool factor of having a rare PTO winch, and being able to spool in at different speeds can be nice too.

 

[jblueridge]

PTO.

 

[Felde]

I think you have to decide for yourself (stating the obvious here). The PTO winch is cool, you have all the necessary mounting/equipment - some people spend a lot of time searching for it. OTOH I completely understand if you just say "hey it's not worth the time/effort, I want to have this on the road and an electric winch is just fine".

I'm with janycc. PTO and electric winches both have pros and cons.
No dought, a PTO is nice, because it's a genuine Toyota item specific to the truck, which makes them special and rare. Most electric (aftermarket) winches aren't.
And a PTO winch is a dead cool piece of mechanical engineering
That + the fun to make things work with your own ideas (like integrating the PTO winch int the ARB bumper) are the reasons why most of us stick with the older 70s series anyway, isn't it?
If you don't share into this: No problem. See quote.
Make it your rig!
Cheers Ralf

 

[rick_d]

I am going against the grain- and I have had and used PTO winches.

Electric all the way. A PTO you will never really use. Electric you can still use with engine waterlogged etc.

Plus, the knob vibrates like hell unless you have the late model insulated shifter.

Do not do the PTO route.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

I believe one of the previous post mentioned the “sheer pin” associated with the PTO winch. We were trying to pull out a Land Rover (well actually an older Discovery) that was bogged down to the frame. One of our group drove his BJ71 (PTO winch) in as close as he could get without getting stuck himself. Cable was drug and the winching process started. I believe the winch was up to the task but the sheer pin was not. The remaining options were to get in the mud and try to replace the pin or simply leave the Discovery (fortunately option 2 wasn’t put to a vote).
We actually chose option 3 …. John Deere tractor.
I realize there are those that advocate for larger sheer pins but there are risk involved in that also. I’d go modern electric winch.

 

[JDM Journeys]

Hmmm. Lots of food for thought here, and exactly the kind of real feedback I'd hoped for. I've started looking (again) at how much there is to cut. Bear in mind I have an ARB on this truck (AND the Prado 90) because of the high potential of animal strikes. Removing material to fit the winch is part of what makes me hesitate... Here are some pics I grabbed a year or so back (wish I could give credit but can't remember where I go them).

This particular iteration puts much of the winch below the bumper line. I saw another nice install, but it had a bodylift, which made things much easier. Def not going that route...

Selling the bits up here to put towards an electric would likely be difficult too, since there aren't a heckuva lot of PTO enabled 70s around... but sure would love an 8274 if I could fit it. Maybe that'd put me back to the drawing board. LOL.

 

[fireball]

Ease of an electric winch? The PTO couldn’t be any easier to use. No remote to get lost. No controller to have to plug in. No chance of any wiring issues.
The PTO has some limitations and if you’re doing super technical wheeling might not be the best choice but I believe if you’re using your 70 to do what it does best the PTO is a great choice.

 

[fireball]

I believe one of the previous post mentioned the “sheer pin” associated with the PTO winch. We were trying to pull out a Land Rover (well actually an older Discovery) that was bogged down to the frame. One of our group drove his BJ71 (PTO winch) in as close as he could get without getting stuck himself. Cable was drug and the winching process started. I believe the winch was up to the task but the sheer pin was not. The remaining options were to get in the mud and try to replace the pin or simply leave the Discovery (fortunately option 2 wasn’t put to a vote).
We actually chose option 3 …. John Deere tractor.
I realize there are those that advocate for larger sheer pins but there are risk involved in that also. I’d go modern electric winch.

Not to play armchair internet quarterback on you but….

A bigger heavier vehicle stuck in the mud up to the frame is going to be a stressful pull no matter what. The winch is strongest with the cable pulled out most of the way, so in this case a longer pull would’ve kept you out of the mud and put the winch in its sweet spot. Probably also would’ve used a snatch block.

I have seen electric winches not work properly on the trail so many times in my times wheeling. My PTO has never failed me for my needs. This opinion and $4.50 will get you one gallon of gasoline.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Not to play armchair internet quarterback on you but….

A bigger heavier vehicle stuck in the mud up to the frame is going to be a stressful pull no matter what. The winch is strongest with the cable pulled out most of the way, so in this case a longer pull would’ve kept you out of the mud and put the winch in its sweet spot. Probably also would’ve used a snatch block.

I have seen electric winches not work properly on the trail so many times in my times wheeling. My PTO has never failed me for my needs. This opinion and $4.50 will get you one gallon of gasoline.

Rest assured that I was by far the least qualified person there that day.
My presence was mostly for moral support.

 

[Rigster]

Ok, I guess I will put a "real" response in here to chime in, though I think I made it clear earlier what my choice would be.

There is NO "perfect" setup. Most of my winches (including a couple of 8274 warns) have been electric. Due to the weight of these land cruisers, I have always needed to snatch block in order to get myself out of something I managed to get stuck in (rare). A straight pull rarely works and ends up stopping because it has pulled maximum amps from the batteries. This is when the electric winches overheat as well, putting a strain on the whole system.

I also have more than a decade of experience working with heavy equipment and hydraulics, cranes, etc... and hydraulics take far more abuse, use, and just keep on ticking! You could literally use the PTO daily and it would just keep on ticking. However, as peeps have pointed out the weak point, you may want to look at addressing the shear pins. When the PTO is maxed out, it just stops like the electric winches, but without the strain to the entire electrical system. You will likely still need to snatch block if you are trying to get yourself unstuck, but if you try the straight pull first, you don't have to worry about straining the system as much.

I like the idea of the PTO winch since it is OEM, you have all the pieces and parts, and the ability to make it work. I would at the very least get serious about measuring everything up and making a plan to put it in, that way at least you have more information to make a choice.

Worst case scenario, you end up welding the bumper whole, and need to pay to get it powdercoated again.

My 2.5 cents (sense? - debatable!)

 

[JDM Journeys]

Well, I have begun this project. We started by cutting out the crossbar at the lower back of the ARB. I was hoping I could cut out a section of the plate on the front of the bumper sufficient to clear the motor protrusion on the LHS, but alas... still not enough room to get the motor low enough to mate with the drive shaft, and also have enough room behind to fashion a mounting bracket. Compounding this, the slip yoke did not want to separate from its splines. Finally I pulled the entire driveshaft, and after all manner of pounding, heat, and penetrating oil, we had to resort to cutting. Even one cut wouldn't do it. After the second cut and some cold chisel action, it finally, reluctantly, separated. Will have to weld some round stock over top once we get everything else finished.

My plan going forward is to cut more out of the front lower plate, and plane the rear mounts down a bit, allowing the winch to sit lower. Also, I'm going to try to move the last hanger bracket down a bit to improve the angle where the driveshaft comes under the rad.

So in summary, it's a bolt in.

 

[fireball]

Attaboy! Nothing good is easy!

 

[RHINO]

Hey JDM, I'm right there with you, if I had the PTO ready to install, I prolly would after some back and forth as you have done.

I think you made the right decision.

 

[Rigster]

Well, I have begun this project. We started by cutting out the crossbar at the lower back of the ARB. I was hoping I could cut out a section of the plate on the front of the bumper sufficient to clear the motor protrusion on the LHS, but alas... still not enough room to get the motor low enough to mate with the drive shaft, and also have enough room behind to fashion a mounting bracket. Compounding this, the slip yoke did not want to separate from its splines. Finally I pulled the entire driveshaft, and after all manner of pounding, heat, and penetrating oil, we had to resort to cutting. Even one cut wouldn't do it. After the second cut and some cold chisel action, it finally, reluctantly, separated. Will have to weld some round stock over top once we get everything else finished.
View attachment 3020638
My plan going forward is to cut more out of the front lower plate, and plane the rear mounts down a bit, allowing the winch to sit lower. Also, I'm going to try to move the last hanger bracket down a bit to improve the angle where the driveshaft comes under the rad.

So in summary, it's a bolt in.

Nothing like the good 'ol plug and play aftermarket components to make life so nice and easy huh bud? lol