The 2016+ factory/oem 18" wheel has a 56mm offset. The Spidertrax 1.25" wheel spacer is the equivalent to 31.75mm, so 56 - 31.75 = 24.25mm offset. The Bora 1" wheel spacer is the equivalent to 25.4mm, so 56 - 25.4 = 30.6mm offset.
200 Series Tire and Wheel Size Database (19 Viewers)
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chris777
TLCA member #12444
Why is “POKE” a “thing” on the 200 forum?
I have had my FJ60 for 36 years, and just got my 200 last year. I have been on Mud for over 15, but less than a year on the 200 forum. I had never heard of this “Poke” phenomom till I got on the 200 forum. Never heard of it before. So let me get this straight. You want to actually put on wheel spacers and buy wheels that are 30 or 40 below the recomended +60 Wheel Offset for older 200s, and +56 for newer ones. Just so your tires poke out a little beyond the fenders?
please read this: Understanding Wheel Offset: Negative vs Positive Offset Explained | Low Offset - https://low-offset.com/workshop/understanding-wheel-offset/
If you are running low offsets and poking your tires out, you accomplish three things
1. Wear on the wheel bearings and axle. The truck is designed by automotive engineers to run the correct wheel offset, +60 or +56. If you have less than that you are putting undue stress on your wheel bearings and axle. Too much leverage for the design. I guess the "pokers" don't keep their vehicles as long as I do.
2. mess up your scrub radius. By running your wheels further out from center with 0, 20 or 30 offsets, you lose road feel in the steering wheel, and feeback in the steering wheel
3. if your wheel is poking out, and you take it off road, sometimes your tire will hit the outer edge of the fender instead of going up into the wheel well. But I suppose that people who want “poke” never go off road.
So is the Poke look really something your really want? Ive given up on finding aftermarket wheels with +56 offset in an 18 inch rim. I am going back to OEM rims. And take off the Black Rhinos the previous owner put on.
I have had my FJ60 for 36 years, and just got my 200 last year. I have been on Mud for over 15, but less than a year on the 200 forum. I had never heard of this “Poke” phenomom till I got on the 200 forum. Never heard of it before. So let me get this straight. You want to actually put on wheel spacers and buy wheels that are 30 or 40 below the recomended +60 Wheel Offset for older 200s, and +56 for newer ones. Just so your tires poke out a little beyond the fenders?
please read this: Understanding Wheel Offset: Negative vs Positive Offset Explained | Low Offset - https://low-offset.com/workshop/understanding-wheel-offset/
If you are running low offsets and poking your tires out, you accomplish three things
1. Wear on the wheel bearings and axle. The truck is designed by automotive engineers to run the correct wheel offset, +60 or +56. If you have less than that you are putting undue stress on your wheel bearings and axle. Too much leverage for the design. I guess the "pokers" don't keep their vehicles as long as I do.
2. mess up your scrub radius. By running your wheels further out from center with 0, 20 or 30 offsets, you lose road feel in the steering wheel, and feeback in the steering wheel
3. if your wheel is poking out, and you take it off road, sometimes your tire will hit the outer edge of the fender instead of going up into the wheel well. But I suppose that people who want “poke” never go off road.
So is the Poke look really something your really want? Ive given up on finding aftermarket wheels with +56 offset in an 18 inch rim. I am going back to OEM rims. And take off the Black Rhinos the previous owner put on.
To each their own. Is carrying LP on top of a truck with a family onboard the best idea? Not for me…….
If you run larger than OEM tires, you need lower offset wheels to keep scrub radius at OEM specs. Albeit +35 is the most anyone needs to go (good for a 35” tire).
Thanks! I always assumed stock offset was 60mm
4mm is only 0.15" so either way there's not much there.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
where do you carry your LP container? Inside your truck? Is that safer? I have 6 gallons of gasoline up on the roof too. Would you carry gasoline inside your truck too?
chris777
TLCA member #12444
I have never wanted 35s. Never needed them. Take a look at the current issue of Toyota Trails, I have an article in it about doing Elephant Hill, Bobby's Hole, and Lockhart Basin road with 33s. I did not realize that taller tires meant you could run your tires out past the edge of your fender though. How much do your 35s "Poke"?
I couldn't agree more! You can also add getting snow, mud and dirt all over the side of your truck to the list.
Johnathan Hanson agrees:
The five best modifications . . . to leave off your expedition vehicle — Exploring Overland
Expedition travel is a different universe than weekend four-wheeling. When you’re just out for a few days near home—camping, challenging a few trails—breaking down is no more than an inconvenience. But if you’ve embarked on a long journey far from familiar territory, perhaps in another country or on
www.exploringoverland.com
Just say no to wheel spacers . . . — Exploring Overland
( . . . and other “performance enhancements” that compromise reliability) Every once in a while—well, quite frequently, actually—my friend and master Toyota mechanic, Bill Lee, reads something in a magazine that sets his teeth on edge, and he’ll fire off an email to me sprinkled with a lot of excl
www.exploringoverland.com
Aggressive much? Just because you don’t run 35s, doesn’t mean everyone shares your opinion.
I don’t even run spacers. I was just pointing out (since it was one of your 3 main reasons for not using spacers) for the people that run 33-35” tires or larger, then the factory offset isn’t technically correct anymore for scrub radius. Running +35 doesn’t run the wheels outside of the wheel wells. I don’t think many people here are suggesting running 2-3” spacers, which I believe most of the “anti-spacer” crowd are referring to. A 1” spacer gives ideal offset on an OEM wheel for a 34-35” tire.
Everything is relative, and “poke” on this forum is usually not referring to those trucks that the wheels stick out of the fenders by 6”. No need to be so hyperbolic.
All that to say, I’m also sure some wheel/spacer choices here are made for vanity’s sake rather than ideal drivability..to them I would just say “to each their own.”
chris777
TLCA member #12444
I be am sorry
, I didn’t intend to be aggressive. I did not know that taller tires affect the ideal offset. Now I do.
This is solid input that I've been championing for awhile on these boards. Kudos for the like minded thoughts rooted in core engineering principles. Makes for a better driving car especially when modified. Yes, correct wheel offset is also keyed to overall tire diameter.
We often talk past each other on the boards depending on personal goals and priorities. While I personally think the 200-series makes a great overlander, others may prioritize rock crawling style builds. Lots of overlap, but just as much differences. Sure, poke can come down to aesthetics, but some of the more hardcore do use additional poke to keep rocks off the bodywork which I get. It's always a compromise one way or another, including to the ones you pointed out.
Having built for 33s and 35s, I do think 33s is an excellent place to be. Probably the best balance overall for casual or aggressive owners. What I've also seen over the years is that 35s seem to be the new 33s. With the large number of big tire vehicles out on the trails, tire ruts and moguls seem to be deeper with bigger tires digging them out, and sometimes bigger tires are the only way to keep things like the diff from hanging up.
I'd like to think I've built out to the max in terms of a reasonable tire size for the 200-series. Many tucks and tweaks, while keeping away from more dramatic and irreversible modifications. Here's what 35x12.5s look like on an effective +35 offset. Just to the limits of the fenders. Scrub radius is practically perfect with 35s. Re-gearing with 4.3s puts gearing back to stock. Tundra brakes brings back proper brake torque. What I've accepted is some durability impacts, but given the core strength I'm confident it'll remain reliable. Efficiency impacts about 10% worse than stock. Still tows an 8k trailer like a beast.
@lx200inAR covered everything well and ill add a couple more notes.
Nobody here is chasing poke, but some more or less a fender flush fitment. How something looks is important to varying degrees but no one can say its irrelevant.
We are also managing poke due to wheel selection issues. We are also (some of us) trying to avoid spacers.
And some slightly less of us in newer LXs are only offered somewhat stylistically matched OEM wheels in 20" as our smallest option.
The factory offset (we are assuming) is neutral and much too light for me and some others as well.
Adding some positive scrub can actually improve stability. It completely negated the jittery nature of my steering for example.
Contact patch directly at the steering pivot point isnt even intended on IFS double wishbone setups to begin with.
The road forces act too aggressively on wheel traction and power steering is already too light to be super stable and is easily influenced by road defects. This is the shopping cart effect, and all of the mass market oriented Toyotas have the same feel so that grandma can steer easily and Toyota isnt gospel. Not in performance anyway.
We (mainly myself) are constantly looking for the most optimal fitment for our tire size and no one that i know here is running crazy poke except for @kreiten, but he has a lifelong grudge against the publics windshields and paint. Jokes aside as he can probably tell you there are good reasons to widen your track for crawling.
Also the amount of paint damage is fairly negligible anyway for what most here are running (even me, and trust me im more anal than you) but depends on the terrain. If you look at your truck on a rainy day you will see that almost all of the same debris splashing takes place on your door panels because every time you turn your steering your wheels are positioned outside your fender and one of them will be spraying right at your body panels.
Lastly, a lot of folks running bigger tires than stock are removing/repositioning mudflaps anyway and a simple aftermarket fender flare or flared flaps solves it for $100. Im confused how you thought it was some insurmountable challenge that didn't effect OEM fittings.
Im all for purity in design intent but at the same time you have to realize we are all trying to make improvements but make compromises along the way.
If you think some +25-40 offsets look dumb, i can tell you that the stock fitment looks terrible in my opinion. But that second sentiment is shared by probably the entire automotive enthusiast community. Stance is a huge thing regardless of how much you hate it and has spawned a billion(s) $ industry of aftermarket wheels.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
Ive owned a Land Cruiser for 35 years, led many week long overland trips in Utah, and Arizona, and been on Mud for over 15 years. And i never said that. I was expressing my surprise for how many 200 owners on this forum want their tires to poke out from under the fenders. Surely they are in the minority though. Im sorry i offended you.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
thank you AmyMal and Teckis 300 for taking the time to post a reply. I have Googled for a source on the Internet that says that taller tires require moving them outboard with a smaller number offset..... or, that the offset changes when you go to a taller tire. So, maybe you are right about that, maybe not. I don't know. I am certainly open to the idea. But not convinced.
My FJ60 will remain my difficult trail Land Cruiser. I would never fill the wheel well, because I know how much articulation I need in order to get up rough rocky trails. Especially when I have loaded her down with 15 gallons extra fuel, 20+ gallons of water, a 75 Dometic, food, beer, 2 tents, tools, spare parts, clothes etc. It has 33 x 15 x 10.50s. I've done the Maze District four times, the Needles twice, The Hole in the Rock "TRAIL" once, and many more. I have never needed 35s. But then, I don't like mud. I like rock and sand. My 2018 Land Cruiser has 20 inch Black Rhinos with 275/55/20s. I will use the 200 on milder runs..... White Rim, the Henrys, South Coyote Buttes, Toroweap, and so on. So I want new wheels and tires, but I don't want to give up any precious room for my wheels and rear axle to mover around. Probably bump it up to a 60 is all and stay at 275 or go 265 because of the straight line traction of a slightly narrower tire. I am currently looking on eBay.
In looking at aftermarket wheels, I got frustrated because there is no wheel, and I have looked, that has the +56 offset that the stock wheels were. I respect the Toyota Designers and engineers on this. The closest is the +43 Evo Corse. But they are so expensive. I love the Methods, but in 18", they only offer +25. the Hoss has +50 in a 20 inch tire. Don't want 20s. I air down sometimes. At the Toyota Dealership, they want $800 for each TRD Pro wheel.
I don't understand why there aren't any wheel builders that make aftermarket wheels for trucks built by the biggest most successful automobile company in the world Toyota. There are lots of Tundras. My guess was people didn't know or care about Offset.... or that they want less offset so that the wheels will poke or fill the wheel well.
I see our beloved Land Cruiser as a tool. Thats me. I use it the way it was intended. If I wanted something beautiful I would buy the Hyundai Pallisade!!! LOL. And that is where we differ. I am sorry I have hurt some feelings. I really do.
far right is my 200, the middle is my 60, the one on the far left is just to "poke" a little fun. I don't want to even know what the offset is on my 60, now that I know about it.
My FJ60 will remain my difficult trail Land Cruiser. I would never fill the wheel well, because I know how much articulation I need in order to get up rough rocky trails. Especially when I have loaded her down with 15 gallons extra fuel, 20+ gallons of water, a 75 Dometic, food, beer, 2 tents, tools, spare parts, clothes etc. It has 33 x 15 x 10.50s. I've done the Maze District four times, the Needles twice, The Hole in the Rock "TRAIL" once, and many more. I have never needed 35s. But then, I don't like mud. I like rock and sand. My 2018 Land Cruiser has 20 inch Black Rhinos with 275/55/20s. I will use the 200 on milder runs..... White Rim, the Henrys, South Coyote Buttes, Toroweap, and so on. So I want new wheels and tires, but I don't want to give up any precious room for my wheels and rear axle to mover around. Probably bump it up to a 60 is all and stay at 275 or go 265 because of the straight line traction of a slightly narrower tire. I am currently looking on eBay.
In looking at aftermarket wheels, I got frustrated because there is no wheel, and I have looked, that has the +56 offset that the stock wheels were. I respect the Toyota Designers and engineers on this. The closest is the +43 Evo Corse. But they are so expensive. I love the Methods, but in 18", they only offer +25. the Hoss has +50 in a 20 inch tire. Don't want 20s. I air down sometimes. At the Toyota Dealership, they want $800 for each TRD Pro wheel.
I don't understand why there aren't any wheel builders that make aftermarket wheels for trucks built by the biggest most successful automobile company in the world Toyota. There are lots of Tundras. My guess was people didn't know or care about Offset.... or that they want less offset so that the wheels will poke or fill the wheel well.
I see our beloved Land Cruiser as a tool. Thats me. I use it the way it was intended. If I wanted something beautiful I would buy the Hyundai Pallisade!!! LOL. And that is where we differ. I am sorry I have hurt some feelings. I really do.
far right is my 200, the middle is my 60, the one on the far left is just to "poke" a little fun. I don't want to even know what the offset is on my 60, now that I know about it.
There are tons of Tundra take-offs on craigslist at any given time if you're looking for some OEM 18" wheels.
No offense taken by me at least. I too wonder why the wheel market is magnetized towards 0 offset wheels for this specific lug/hub. Seems like the majority are centered around that lower bound. Probably didn’t help that they are Tundra focused by sales numbers and a negative offset craze had taken over the tuck scene last few years prior to covid. Plenty of folks here on the 200 forum run Toyota wheels with spacers, if I liked the look of the trd wheel for my year LX I would probably have done so myself but the design just doesn’t work well with the luxury look imo. They are a good looking wheel but are very rugged looking. They would stand out too much for my eye. And pricey but forged is worth it.
But by all means you can rag on how something looks all day long. Like I will continue to do lol. No one should be attacked for their taste on something. No matter if you think yourself the kindest soul on the forum, there is surely someone’s ride here (maybe even someone you get along well with) that you find disgusting.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
this photo shows why I don't ever want to fill up my wheel well when parked on pavement. I need the wheel well to absorb articulation.
because Tundra bros want poke, and have huge lifts, that's why the offsets are around 0.
