- Thread starter
- #4,081
This 351 is not vgt, it's a standard internal waste gate. I'll have an adjuster of some kind to make it easier to tune once installed.
Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter GLTHFJ60
- Start date
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Nice!!
Since that pic I have played a couple of times with different oil drain configurations. Ran them together, ran them separate, and I am currently running them together again with a modified smooth flow y-pipe to join the lines in a way that there is always slope to the drain boss in the block. Not sure what has been better. Seemed like better capacity with them separate but wheeling at angles would block off the drain in the pan with where I had to route the oil pan drain when I had them separate. Definitely plan now for additional crankcase breathing, I believe that is what was causing the oil getting passed the seals on my turbos and making the intake and intercooler a mess. Now that I have the valve cover breather, vapor hardly comes out the side breather so it seems to me the valve cover style breather is better at letting pressure escape. I still have plans to connect the outlet of my breathers to the end of my exhaust to cause a slight vacuum to help remove the pressure. I just need to get long enough tube to connect them. @Hojack already has his connected.
Air side turbos connection pipe. This piece has been reworked a couple of times to gain as much clearance as possible with the alternator. I would suggest building one as tight as possible with some kind of cobra head look to it to suck it in tighter.
If your secondary boosted air exit is in a straight line to your intercooler you can probably get away with silicon hose connectors, although you may consider the high heat rated ones. Since I did a 90 degree transition out of the secondary to the intercooler my ultimate fix was to convert that to a hard style v-band connection. No more busted silicon connectors.
You may consider dealing with the freeze plugs now, especially the one around the back since that one sucks when it starts to leak and getting to it usually requires pulling the engine. My final version ended up being the coolant bypass plate and since that mod I've not had any more freeze plug leaking issues.
Excited to see what you come up with to solve the problems that will pop up.
Since that pic I have played a couple of times with different oil drain configurations. Ran them together, ran them separate, and I am currently running them together again with a modified smooth flow y-pipe to join the lines in a way that there is always slope to the drain boss in the block. Not sure what has been better. Seemed like better capacity with them separate but wheeling at angles would block off the drain in the pan with where I had to route the oil pan drain when I had them separate. Definitely plan now for additional crankcase breathing, I believe that is what was causing the oil getting passed the seals on my turbos and making the intake and intercooler a mess. Now that I have the valve cover breather, vapor hardly comes out the side breather so it seems to me the valve cover style breather is better at letting pressure escape. I still have plans to connect the outlet of my breathers to the end of my exhaust to cause a slight vacuum to help remove the pressure. I just need to get long enough tube to connect them. @Hojack already has his connected.
Air side turbos connection pipe. This piece has been reworked a couple of times to gain as much clearance as possible with the alternator. I would suggest building one as tight as possible with some kind of cobra head look to it to suck it in tighter.
If your secondary boosted air exit is in a straight line to your intercooler you can probably get away with silicon hose connectors, although you may consider the high heat rated ones. Since I did a 90 degree transition out of the secondary to the intercooler my ultimate fix was to convert that to a hard style v-band connection. No more busted silicon connectors.
You may consider dealing with the freeze plugs now, especially the one around the back since that one sucks when it starts to leak and getting to it usually requires pulling the engine. My final version ended up being the coolant bypass plate and since that mod I've not had any more freeze plug leaking issues.
Excited to see what you come up with to solve the problems that will pop up.
- Thread starter
- #4,083
Thanks Mike, I hadn't considered the added crankcase pressure. Guess it's time to add one of the valve cover breathers to my list.
Great idea about the cobra head style primary-secondary charge pipe. Looking at it last night I was wondering how the heck I was going to fit that in there behind the alternator. Your alternator might give a touch more space, or your secondary turbo is shorter than mine is.
I'm hoping to skip the ARP head bolts in this phase, at least for now. Still have the stock head bolts that I put in 9 years ago when I built this thing. Want to get the turbos in and the truck drivable, with the primary turbo WG effectively open, so that I can work out any kinks before putting big boost through it. Maybe 40-45psi as a first pass.
Funny you mentioned the freeze plugs. I was going through your thread last night and reliving all of your struggles with them, lol. Did those solid slug ones live up over time?
One last question. Your hot pipe you made out of stainless. Any regrets there? My thinking is to make a new version of the secondary exhaust plate that bolts onto the turbine housing, but I'm not sure stainless is a good choice for that. Still mulling it over.
Great idea about the cobra head style primary-secondary charge pipe. Looking at it last night I was wondering how the heck I was going to fit that in there behind the alternator. Your alternator might give a touch more space, or your secondary turbo is shorter than mine is.
I'm hoping to skip the ARP head bolts in this phase, at least for now. Still have the stock head bolts that I put in 9 years ago when I built this thing. Want to get the turbos in and the truck drivable, with the primary turbo WG effectively open, so that I can work out any kinks before putting big boost through it. Maybe 40-45psi as a first pass.
Funny you mentioned the freeze plugs. I was going through your thread last night and reliving all of your struggles with them, lol. Did those solid slug ones live up over time?
One last question. Your hot pipe you made out of stainless. Any regrets there? My thinking is to make a new version of the secondary exhaust plate that bolts onto the turbine housing, but I'm not sure stainless is a good choice for that. Still mulling it over.
I'm pretty sure my secondary compressor intake size is smaller than yours so you will probably have some additional ingenuity that you'll get to come up with.
Good thoughts about considering the head studs. Could you try doing a little over torqueing of those bolts? 6bt guys have done that. Or maybe just leave it and deal with that IF it comes up.
Solid slug freeze plugs that clamp in are doing great. I didn't buy top brand either, just some ebay versions if I remember right and they've held up well.
So far the hot pipe between the turbos is doing well, but use what you feel is best. Definitely support that monster primary with a bracket of some kind off the block. At least the VGT version I have is a heavy beast.
Are you planning for another boost gauge? Hope so because then you'll have the numbers to be able to run those math formulas when doing tuning. Tuning will be a whole other topic once you get there, very little solid answers there, mostly trial and error. I can share what I've tried and what I remember anymore. I'm still playing with tuning.
Heat wrap. I think it's a good idea to consider heat wrap, turbo blankets, wrapping intake tubes going to the intercooler... absolutely keep your cold air intake and if you have to move your filter go to the effort to suck in cold air. Under hood temps get warmer when playing with two turbos.
Good thoughts about considering the head studs. Could you try doing a little over torqueing of those bolts? 6bt guys have done that. Or maybe just leave it and deal with that IF it comes up.
Solid slug freeze plugs that clamp in are doing great. I didn't buy top brand either, just some ebay versions if I remember right and they've held up well.
So far the hot pipe between the turbos is doing well, but use what you feel is best. Definitely support that monster primary with a bracket of some kind off the block. At least the VGT version I have is a heavy beast.
Are you planning for another boost gauge? Hope so because then you'll have the numbers to be able to run those math formulas when doing tuning. Tuning will be a whole other topic once you get there, very little solid answers there, mostly trial and error. I can share what I've tried and what I remember anymore. I'm still playing with tuning.
Heat wrap. I think it's a good idea to consider heat wrap, turbo blankets, wrapping intake tubes going to the intercooler... absolutely keep your cold air intake and if you have to move your filter go to the effort to suck in cold air. Under hood temps get warmer when playing with two turbos.
- Thread starter
- #4,085
I forgot about the overtorque thing, yeah I might give that a go. Same with the freeze plugs, I'll look into those, seems like cheap insurance.
I am planning for another boost gauge. I was considering two additional actually, one for drive pressure (exh manifold) and one for secondary turbo boost to complement the manifold pressure boost gauge already in the truck. Not sure I want to dedicate dash space to those permanently, so I'm mulling over putting them in the engine bay, or going with electronic sensors for the lot, so I can log it all. It's definitely part of the plan though, need to have the data to tune with.
I'll get blankets for the turbos, but I'm hesitant to wrap any of the mild steel piping any longer. My downpipe rotted apart a few times in the past few years, and I'm sure that wouldn't have happened were it not wrapped.
I am planning for another boost gauge. I was considering two additional actually, one for drive pressure (exh manifold) and one for secondary turbo boost to complement the manifold pressure boost gauge already in the truck. Not sure I want to dedicate dash space to those permanently, so I'm mulling over putting them in the engine bay, or going with electronic sensors for the lot, so I can log it all. It's definitely part of the plan though, need to have the data to tune with.
I'll get blankets for the turbos, but I'm hesitant to wrap any of the mild steel piping any longer. My downpipe rotted apart a few times in the past few years, and I'm sure that wouldn't have happened were it not wrapped.
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Your environment is different than mine. Things seem to rust a bit quicker on your side whereas our lazy rust takes a while to do any real damage. I guess there is always ceramic coating that could help with heat if it becomes an issue under hood.
- Thread starter
- #4,087
Must be. I'll say that the downpipe took 6-7 years to fully rot out, but the rest of the exhaust is still mint. The downpipe was the only section that was wrapped.
Disassembled the he351 today to take the pins out and clock it. Didn't break it fortunately, lol.
Made a backplate for the hx30 using the oem one as a template, then started on the hot pipe. I think this will work, but the pipe is only exhaust tubing, nothing heavy. The primary support will have to come the brackets, but this will help locate the primary turbo till I can get those fabricated.
Finished up this afternoon by making a t3 flange. 1/4" a36 plate for the hx30 flange, 1/2" a36 plate for the t3 flange. Drill press, mounted portaband and belt sander ftw.
Disassembled the he351 today to take the pins out and clock it. Didn't break it fortunately, lol.
Made a backplate for the hx30 using the oem one as a template, then started on the hot pipe. I think this will work, but the pipe is only exhaust tubing, nothing heavy. The primary support will have to come the brackets, but this will help locate the primary turbo till I can get those fabricated.
Finished up this afternoon by making a t3 flange. 1/4" a36 plate for the hx30 flange, 1/2" a36 plate for the t3 flange. Drill press, mounted portaband and belt sander ftw.
Zjohnsonua
SILVER Star
Very cool. Brings back memories of my days tearing down turbos. Be mindful with the heat blankets. You don't mention where they'll go specifically, but those puppies have killed many a Holset turbine-side journal bearing due to hot shutdown related oil coking.
- Thread starter
- #4,090
I think I'm happy with this hot pipe. It's a little awkward in that it has to both angle towards the block, but also reduce to T3 size. Couldn't angle the pipe straight to the flange location because it would have hit the exhaust manifold. There are some gaps that I'm not super stoked about, but it'll work, and clean up nicely. I've got an air file that will get inside the pipe to clean up the back side when the time comes.
The fit is ****ing perfect. Somehow got it on the first try. Plenty of room for exhaust out of the atmospheric turbo along the bellhousing, then about 3/16" of room between the exhaust manifold and the atmospheric turbo's compressor outlet.
Not much room for the intake piping, but it looks like there will be *just* enough to clear everything.
Decided I'm going to make the downpipe out of stainless this time, so I can wrap it and hopefully not have it rot out on me. The HE351 to 3" reducer v-band combo thing is en route.
The fit is ****ing perfect. Somehow got it on the first try. Plenty of room for exhaust out of the atmospheric turbo along the bellhousing, then about 3/16" of room between the exhaust manifold and the atmospheric turbo's compressor outlet.
Not much room for the intake piping, but it looks like there will be *just* enough to clear everything.
Decided I'm going to make the downpipe out of stainless this time, so I can wrap it and hopefully not have it rot out on me. The HE351 to 3" reducer v-band combo thing is en route.
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- Thread starter
- #4,092
Little portaband action, mill action, more portaband, belt sander, drill press, and the secondary mid-frame mount block is made. I'll weld a drain tube into this at the end.
- Thread starter
- #4,093
@boots4 do you see any benefit (or drawback) to running the secondary turbo drain down to the oil pan instead of to the block turbo drain boss?
There's not a ton of elevation between my primary and the block drain boss, which is making me wonder if I'll have drain issues when off camber, or facing uphill on a climb. Mulling over having my primary drain into the block drain boss, then the secondary drain down into the pan with a new drain boss (yet to add) to make both turbo drains a straight shot down. Interested to hear your thoughts.
Also, with the feed, you have each turbo fed off a different port on the oil filter housing correct? Thoughts on using say a -6an y fitting off there to have both turbos fed from the same port?
Finally, have you added the larger 7 plate (I think) oil cooler with compounds, or are you still running the stock 4 or 5 plate oil cooler?
There's not a ton of elevation between my primary and the block drain boss, which is making me wonder if I'll have drain issues when off camber, or facing uphill on a climb. Mulling over having my primary drain into the block drain boss, then the secondary drain down into the pan with a new drain boss (yet to add) to make both turbo drains a straight shot down. Interested to hear your thoughts.
Also, with the feed, you have each turbo fed off a different port on the oil filter housing correct? Thoughts on using say a -6an y fitting off there to have both turbos fed from the same port?
Finally, have you added the larger 7 plate (I think) oil cooler with compounds, or are you still running the stock 4 or 5 plate oil cooler?
Drains,
I've run both and honestly didn't see any real different between the two set ups. The better way is to run separate drains but that's when I ran into oil coming passed the CHRA seals. Where I put my pan drain ended up being right at oil level and I couldn't get it any higher. I found that the oil level could back up into the drain line. I think both drain spots can get backed up at crazy wheeling angles. I had thoughts of doing some baffling in the oil pan but never got that far. Once I put in the valve breather oil in the intake reduced significantly so I'm thinking that played a bigger part than how I had my drains set up.
Oil feed,
I am running them on two different outlets from the oil cooler cover. To feed both from the same line I would suggest a bigger feed line and then use some restricting bolts to reduce the flow a little at the CHRA. I've bought the special bolts and have made my own. Right now I'm running my own. I took down the hole size just a little bit from stock (one of the attempts in solving the oil in the intake thing thinking I was over feeding the turbos). Now, since I'm running them both into the same drain running the restrictors is beneficial in my case.
Whatever oil cooler came with this engine is the one I'm using. I assume it's the stock one but I never counted the plates when I had it apart so many years ago.
You're asking good questions. When you start asking about tuning it gets a lot more gray instead of black and white.
I've run both and honestly didn't see any real different between the two set ups. The better way is to run separate drains but that's when I ran into oil coming passed the CHRA seals. Where I put my pan drain ended up being right at oil level and I couldn't get it any higher. I found that the oil level could back up into the drain line. I think both drain spots can get backed up at crazy wheeling angles. I had thoughts of doing some baffling in the oil pan but never got that far. Once I put in the valve breather oil in the intake reduced significantly so I'm thinking that played a bigger part than how I had my drains set up.
Oil feed,
I am running them on two different outlets from the oil cooler cover. To feed both from the same line I would suggest a bigger feed line and then use some restricting bolts to reduce the flow a little at the CHRA. I've bought the special bolts and have made my own. Right now I'm running my own. I took down the hole size just a little bit from stock (one of the attempts in solving the oil in the intake thing thinking I was over feeding the turbos). Now, since I'm running them both into the same drain running the restrictors is beneficial in my case.
Whatever oil cooler came with this engine is the one I'm using. I assume it's the stock one but I never counted the plates when I had it apart so many years ago.
You're asking good questions. When you start asking about tuning it gets a lot more gray instead of black and white.
- Thread starter
- #4,095
Good info, thanks man. Sounds like I'll be joining the two drains with a y and feeding them into the block. That'll be easier anyway.
What size is the orifice in the feeds to the turbos in your setup? With the single turbo I drilled out the restrictor and haven't had any issues. Feeding both with -6an and a y off the same port will be convenient. Maybe -8 off the oil filter housing then -6 to the turbos with restrictors will work.
What size is the orifice in the feeds to the turbos in your setup? With the single turbo I drilled out the restrictor and haven't had any issues. Feeding both with -6an and a y off the same port will be convenient. Maybe -8 off the oil filter housing then -6 to the turbos with restrictors will work.
- Thread starter
- #4,096
Made the secondary support bracket today and welded it to the block in place after shortening it a bit. Bracket needs another test fit and some cleanup, but I think this will be more than adequate.
Edit: test fit successful, but damn is this thing difficult to get in and out, lol.
Edit: test fit successful, but damn is this thing difficult to get in and out, lol.
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- Thread starter
- #4,097
In parallel I did some work figuring out the secondary-primary charge pipe. Decided I needed to shave the primary compressor housing to fit everything. Removed the tag and associated boss, then trimmed the inlet a bit on the lathe. With this I can fit a 3" pipe with *some* room between the alt and primary turbo, which is great.
Not a whole lot of extra room, but there will be enough. Just need to figure out couplers and whatnot, then do a bunch of metal work to make the charge pipe the right shape, and I'll have something I think.
Not a whole lot of extra room, but there will be enough. Just need to figure out couplers and whatnot, then do a bunch of metal work to make the charge pipe the right shape, and I'll have something I think.
- Thread starter
- #4,099
He351 goodies came, and a complete new super hx30 came as well to replace the one I broke.
- Thread starter
- #4,100
Hot pipe, primary and manifold all came off also. Decided it was time to deal with the two broken manifold bolts.
Bottom one came out after the 5th welded nut thankfully. Top one took 9 failed welded nuts, then drill through and carefully drive the rest out with a tap. Success, but damn does that job suck.
Fun to think that when this same manifold bolt broke when I first got the motor torn down. I didn't have the skill to recover it myself, so the head came off and was sent to a machine shop. Love that I can do this kind of tricky s*** myself now. Saves so much time and money.
Studs installed to hopefully avoid that bull**** in the future, lol.
Bottom one came out after the 5th welded nut thankfully. Top one took 9 failed welded nuts, then drill through and carefully drive the rest out with a tap. Success, but damn does that job suck.
Fun to think that when this same manifold bolt broke when I first got the motor torn down. I didn't have the skill to recover it myself, so the head came off and was sent to a machine shop. Love that I can do this kind of tricky s*** myself now. Saves so much time and money.
Studs installed to hopefully avoid that bull**** in the future, lol.
