Suspension Kit, Strut Master? (1 Viewer)

[02LXLC]

I have a 2002 LX 470, The Hydraulic AHC is dying a slow death. I have contacted Slee Offroad in Golden CO, and they quoted about $4k to upgrade to Old Man Emu. I don't do any off road driving, this is my 100% daily driver. I found Strut Master, and they sell a kit for about $700. I know you get what you pay for, but does that mean Strut Master is not very good? Anyone have experience with the Strut Master kit? If I cannot find something I will be unfortunately selling the truck I think. It's a 2002 with 190k, very clean and well maintained and garage kept. If I could get $14k for the truck with the current suspension issue is that asking too much?

Anyway any info on the Strut Master kit or any other affordable kit would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[ramangain]

@IndroCruise @suprarx7nut

Ring ring, ring ring ..... ring ring, ring ring ....

 

[Tanner H]

Wondering if that 4k slee quote is for parts and labor and maybe a few more bells and whistles. The basic old man emu kit (all 4 shocks, rear springs and front torsion bars ) is about $1,000.

 

[jLB]

The Strutmasters kit does not include torsion bars (front springs), and expects you to reuse the existing AHC torsion bars, which are inadequate to support the vehicle without AHC's assistance. I would avoid the what I consider a "half-assed" Strutmasters kit.

The basic OME kit should be ~$800-1000, for torsion bars, coil springs, and 4 shocks. I'd assume that your quote from Slee included UCAs, diff drop, and labor (possibly removing every trace of AHC components). I would also avoid the OME kit for a DD vehicle that's never going off pavement, the shocks are notorious for an extremely "sporty" (read punishing) ride, especially on a stock 100 series.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I have a 2002 LX 470, The Hydraulic AHC is dying a slow death. I have contacted Slee Offroad in Golden CO, and they quoted about $4k to upgrade to Old Man Emu. I don't do any off road driving, this is my 100% daily driver. I found Strut Master, and they sell a kit for about $700. I know you get what you pay for, but does that mean Strut Master is not very good? Anyone have experience with the Strut Master kit? If I cannot find something I will be unfortunately selling the truck I think. It's a 2002 with 190k, very clean and well maintained and garage kept. If I could get $14k for the truck with the current suspension issue is that asking too much?

Anyway any info on the Strut Master kit or any other affordable kit would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Old Man Emu is a downgrade, not an upgrade, IMO. Doubly so if you're driving this thing on the street.

Strut Master is garbage - potentially even dangerous. Erase them from your memory.

What is wrong with your system? There is no overall slow death to speak of, so I bet you're a simple repair or two away from a fully functioning AHC system. There is *NOTHING* in the AHC system that should cost $4k to replace, provided lines are healthy (not grossly rusted).

I don't offer AHC service as professional service (yet), but if you're desperate and want a quick opinion up in Frederick, CO on a day I'm in the Air Down Gear Up shop, perhaps we can meet up for a brief look.

PM me if you're interested.

 

[IndroCruise]

I have a 2002 LX 470, The Hydraulic AHC is dying a slow death. I have contacted Slee Offroad in Golden CO, and they quoted about $4k to upgrade to Old Man Emu. I don't do any off road driving, this is my 100% daily driver. I found Strut Master, and they sell a kit for about $700. I know you get what you pay for, but does that mean Strut Master is not very good? Anyone have experience with the Strut Master kit? If I cannot find something I will be unfortunately selling the truck I think. It's a 2002 with 190k, very clean and well maintained and garage kept. If I could get $14k for the truck with the current suspension issue is that asking too much?

Anyway any info on the Strut Master kit or any other affordable kit would be appreciated.

Thanks!

On my previous 2002 LC100, I had factory-fitted conventional suspension. My 2006 LC100 has AHC/TEMS system exactly the same as LX470. When the system is healthy, the ride is far, far better with AHC/TEMS because of the adaptive damping provided by the TEMS (Toyota Electronic Modulate Suspension) system – 16 steps of damping determined in real time all the time, selected automatically by the system for road conditions, driving style eg speed, braking, turns, and by which of the four different ranges has been selected at the switch on the centre console – “comfort” through to “sport 2”.

From far away in the home country of ARB, the quote for ~USD4,000 for Old Man Emu Upgrade is surprising – maybe it includes the top of the ARB line OME BP-51 adjustable bypass shocks? These are expensive. As indicated by @jLB, the quote also may include the other stuff which goes with a permanent lift.

If this is mainly a street/highway vehicle, it seems unlikely that you want or need a permanent lift?

Certainly any change-out from AHC/TEMS suspension must include replacement front torsion bars and replacement rear springs, even if only using conventional Toyota parts. The AHC/TEMS carries part of the vehicle weight and so the torsion bars and springs are much lighter than the equivalent conventional suspension which must carry the whole weight of the vehicle.

Slee seems to have a good reputation on this forum and in your part of the world – suggest a further discussion with them to clarify exactly what they are offering.

However, fundamentally I concur with @suprarx7nut. If the underside of the vehicle is in good condition without excessive rust, refurbishing the AHC/TEMS with some replacement parts is the way to go, at much less cost than your current quote for a replacement suspension. This would restore a long-lasting level of ride comfort which cannot be equalled by any conventional suspension. At 190,000 miles your LX470 is not done yet, but it may be ready for new ‘globes’ if not replaced recently, plus a check-over of the Height Control Sensors, and re-setting the system pressures (easy at the front, may involve new springs at the rear). None of this is difficult nor inordinately expensive with careful purchasing -- and there is plenty of IH8MUD advice on where to go for replacement parts. The offer by @suprarx7nut for a quick look-see is hard to beat.

 

[02LXLC]

Old Man Emu is a downgrade, not an upgrade, IMO. Doubly so if you're driving this thing on the street.

Strut Master is garbage - potentially even dangerous. Erase them from your memory.

What is wrong with your system? There is no overall slow death to speak of, so I bet you're a simple repair or two away from a fully functioning AHC system. There is *NOTHING* in the AHC system that should cost $4k to replace, provided lines are healthy (not grossly rusted).

I don't offer AHC service as professional service (yet), but if you're desperate and want a quick opinion up in Frederick, CO on a day I'm in the Air Down Gear Up shop, perhaps we can meet up for a brief look.

PM me if you're interested.

Thank You SO much for this response. I may be able to get down to Fredrick for someone knowledgeable to look at it.
I was planning on heading down or scheduling an appointment at Stevenson Lexus in Denver.

I have looked under the truck while it has been up at the garage before and it looked pretty free of rust.

Here is what is going on:
The AHA OFF light is constantly blinking.
Every now and again (maybe once a month) it drops to "low" over night, but doesn't ride like it is low.
When in Low it will not respond to me selecting Neutral until I drive it, park, turn off the engine and start the engine again, then hit Neutral and the dash light goes from Low to Neutral, but honestly I do not feel the truck raise or lower anymore.

Still drives well and smooth.

To be clear this truck does not have air bags, it is hydraulic... I thought it had air bags.

Thanks again for this response.

 

[02LXLC]

On my previous 2002 LC100, I had factory-fitted conventional suspension. My 2006 LC100 has AHC/TEMS system exactly the same as LX470. When the system is healthy, the ride is far, far better with AHC/TEMS because of the adaptive damping provided by the TEMS (Toyota Electronic Modulate Suspension) system – 16 steps of damping determined in real time all the time, selected automatically by the system for road conditions, driving style eg speed, braking, turns, and by which of the four different ranges has been selected at the switch on the centre console – “comfort” through to “sport 2”.

From far away in the home country of ARB, the quote for ~USD4,000 for Old Man Emu Upgrade is surprising – maybe it includes the top of the ARB line OME BP-51 adjustable bypass shocks? These are expensive. As indicated by @jLB, the quote also may include the other stuff which goes with a permanent lift.

If this is mainly a street/highway vehicle, it seems unlikely that you want or need a permanent lift?

Certainly any change-out from AHC/TEMS suspension must include replacement front torsion bars and replacement rear springs, even if only using conventional Toyota parts. The AHC/TEMS carries part of the vehicle weight and so the torsion bars and springs are much lighter than the equivalent conventional suspension which must carry the whole weight of the vehicle.

Slee seems to have a good reputation on this forum and in your part of the world – suggest a further discussion with them to clarify exactly what they are offering.

However, fundamentally I concur with @suprarx7nut. If the underside of the vehicle is in good condition without excessive rust, refurbishing the AHC/TEMS with some replacement parts is the way to go, at much less cost than your current quote for a replacement suspension. This would restore a long-lasting level of ride comfort which cannot be equalled by any conventional suspension. At 190,000 miles your LX470 is not done yet, but it may be ready for new ‘globes’ if not replaced recently, plus a check-over of the Height Control Sensors, and re-setting the system pressures (easy at the front, may involve new springs at the rear). None of this is difficult nor inordinately expensive with careful purchasing -- and there is plenty of IH8MUD advice on where to go for replacement parts. The offer by @suprarx7nut for a quick look-see is hard to beat.

Thanks for the response.
Yes I am sure Slee is the s*** when it comes to off road rigs, but I stressed to them that this is a daily driver and they really didn't offer any other options.
Again Slee is awesome for most, just not what I want or need.

I did reply to @suprarx7nut and will probably head down to get some advice.

Thanks again

 

[02LXLC]

The Strutmasters kit does not include torsion bars (front springs), and expects you to reuse the existing AHC torsion bars, which are inadequate to support the vehicle without AHC's assistance. I would avoid the what I consider a "half-assed" Strutmasters kit.

The basic OME kit should be ~$800-1000, for torsion bars, coil springs, and 4 shocks. I'd assume that your quote from Slee included UCAs, diff drop, and labor (possibly removing every trace of AHC components). I would also avoid the OME kit for a DD vehicle that's never going off pavement, the shocks are notorious for an extremely "sporty" (read punishing) ride, especially on a stock 100 series.

Thanks.

Yes, I believe the Slee quote was for a 100% Delete.
I will keep looking. Thanks for the information.

 

[manh3]

I bought my lx470 with the ahc removed and strutmaster installed, I was wondering why it rode like complete garbage. I had to install new OME torsion bars to support the front, but with the strutmaster kit it ruined all of the bump stops due to the strutmaster kit not being able to properly support the weight of the vehicle. Couple months ago after taking it on a 1k mile road trip I had enough and replaced the garbage suspension with Kings 2.5 all around, UCA, upper and lower rear arms and bump stops. The wagon now rides amazing, no complaints from the wife and kid about it being rough and we just took it out for a 1.5k mile trip which saw us on fire roads and beach dunes. The cost was about 5k with install but I would do it again in a heart beat.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Thank You SO much for this response. I may be able to get down to Fredrick for someone knowledgeable to look at it.
I was planning on heading down or scheduling an appointment at Stevenson Lexus in Denver.

I have looked under the truck while it has been up at the garage before and it looked pretty free of rust.

Here is what is going on:
The AHA OFF light is constantly blinking.
Every now and again (maybe once a month) it drops to "low" over night, but doesn't ride like it is low.
When in Low it will not respond to me selecting Neutral until I drive it, park, turn off the engine and start the engine again, then hit Neutral and the dash light goes from Low to Neutral, but honestly I do not feel the truck raise or lower anymore.

Still drives well and smooth.

To be clear this truck does not have air bags, it is hydraulic... I thought it had air bags.

Thanks again for this response.

Feel free to shoot me a PM/email. I am happy to provide my phone as well, but prefer to do that via PM or email.

info@airdowngearup.com

 

[sleeoffroad]

I am pretty sure the $4k quote would be for OME with SPC upper arms and Diff Drop with complete AHC removed, in other words all items removed including items on the frame rails. That is what we typically do. We can do used 100 torsion bars and rear springs with Stock Toyota OE shocks. That would be considerably cheaper. However we still typically remove all the parts since we cut the lines to remove them. If we have to start taking the lines apart at the joints (to prevent leaks at) and leave some of the components not sure there would be than much of a savings in leaving the parts.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I was able to take a look at this vehicle today in the Air Down Gear Up shop. Here's the scoop as far as we know right now.

1. AHC off blinking constantly. Car physically sits in a roughly regular N height and N light is lit solid.
2. Two trouble codes for AHC: C1736 (Accum Solenoid Circuit) and C1764 (Oil Pressure Abnormality due to not Opening Accum Valve). B+ indication at AHC ECU via Techstream shows 1-10V. Upon removing AHC Main Relay entirely, Techstream still shows 1-10V even though it was verified to be 0.0X V. Silly Techstream. Word to the wise, any voltage shown for B+ in the AHC menu below ~11V may just mean there's no voltage at all.
3. Accumulator solenoid shows good resistance (<10 ohms) at the accumulator connector.
4. Accumulator wiring from AHC ECU shows very, very high resistance (5-25 MOhms). I interpret this as an open - likely a smashed/eroded/corroded wire with both ends poorly contacting ground (frame/body) on wires SLAC and/or SLB.
5. Chasing down the wire harness I narrowed the short to ground (and presumed open circuit) between BI1, BD2 and BD1. Unfortunately, most the wire between these connectors is right on top of the frame rail and essentially inaccessible without lifting the body off the frame.

Potential resolution: Depin the suspect wires from BI1 and run new wire to the Accumulator and Control Valve. This would avoid having to find the actual fault and just bypass the entire harness. Didn't bring my wiring tools/parts with me today so didn't try this today.

Other faults may exist, but an open in that one circuit definitely throws code 1736 (verified on my personal car) and I suspect throws 1764 under the right circumstances while driving. Owner confirmed that the light flickers differently upon hard cornering - evidence to me that a smashed/failed wire section somewhere is to blame for this trouble and occasionally makes enough contact to fire up the pump and keep the car in N.

Significant oil residue on front right shock, but no dripping oil. Might just be over-pressure. Can't check pressures until trouble codes are cleared.

I hope we get to see this car again and test out the wire replacement. I suspect we'll get it back up and running with that.

Side note: the top screw holding the AHC ECU in place is a PITA to get out. Hardest part of the whole day was that damn screw...

 

[suprarx7nut]

Wiring diagram screenshots for those that like the pictures.

 

[IndroCruise]

I was able to take a look at this vehicle today in the Air Down Gear Up shop. Here's the scoop as far as we know right now.

1. AHC off blinking constantly. Car physically sits in a roughly regular N height and N light is lit solid.
2. Two trouble codes for AHC: C1736 (Accum Solenoid Circuit) and C1764 (Oil Pressure Abnormality due to not Opening Accum Valve). B+ indication at AHC ECU via Techstream shows 1-10V. Upon removing AHC Main Relay entirely, Techstream still shows 1-10V even though it was verified to be 0.0X V. Silly Techstream. Word to the wise, any voltage shown for B+ in the AHC menu below ~11V may just mean there's no voltage at all.
3. Accumulator solenoid shows good resistance (<10 ohms) at the accumulator connector.
4. Accumulator wiring from AHC ECU shows very, very high resistance (5-25 MOhms). I interpret this as an open - likely a smashed/eroded/corroded wire with both ends poorly contacting ground (frame/body) on wires SLAC and/or SLB.
5. Chasing down the wire harness I narrowed the short to ground (and presumed open circuit) between BI1, BD2 and BD1. Unfortunately, most the wire between these connectors is right on top of the frame rail and essentially inaccessible without lifting the body off the frame.

Potential resolution: Depin the suspect wires from BI1 and run new wire to the Accumulator and Control Valve. This would avoid having to find the actual fault and just bypass the entire harness. Didn't bring my wiring tools/parts with me today so didn't try this today.

Other faults may exist, but an open in that one circuit definitely throws code 1736 (verified on my personal car) and I suspect throws 1764 under the right circumstances while driving. Owner confirmed that the light flickers differently upon hard cornering - evidence to me that a smashed/failed wire section somewhere is to blame for this trouble and occasionally makes enough contact to fire up the pump and keep the car in N.

Significant oil residue on front right shock, but no dripping oil. Might just be over-pressure. Can't check pressures until trouble codes are cleared.

I hope we get to see this car again and test out the wire replacement. I suspect we'll get it back up and running with that.

Side note: the top screw holding the AHC ECU in place is a PITA to get out. Hardest part of the whole day was that damn screw...

Great summary and diagnosis! Knowledgeable hands-on service for AHC/TEMS like this is very rare and valuable, so people who can get to you are very fortunate. Still have not found anything equivalent in my part of the world. Except for workshops doing AHC removal/replacement, we are mostly stuck with DIY -- and for me this means lots of mistakes, most things are learned the hard way!!

 

[suprarx7nut]

I was able to take a look at this vehicle today in the Air Down Gear Up shop. Here's the scoop as far as we know right now.

1. AHC off blinking constantly. Car physically sits in a roughly regular N height and N light is lit solid.
2. Two trouble codes for AHC: C1736 (Accum Solenoid Circuit) and C1764 (Oil Pressure Abnormality due to not Opening Accum Valve). B+ indication at AHC ECU via Techstream shows 1-10V. Upon removing AHC Main Relay entirely, Techstream still shows 1-10V even though it was verified to be 0.0X V. Silly Techstream. Word to the wise, any voltage shown for B+ in the AHC menu below ~11V may just mean there's no voltage at all.
3. Accumulator solenoid shows good resistance (<10 ohms) at the accumulator connector.
4. Accumulator wiring from AHC ECU shows very, very high resistance (5-25 MOhms). I interpret this as an open - likely a smashed/eroded/corroded wire with both ends poorly contacting ground (frame/body) on wires SLAC and/or SLB.
5. Chasing down the wire harness I narrowed the short to ground (and presumed open circuit) between BI1, BD2 and BD1. Unfortunately, most the wire between these connectors is right on top of the frame rail and essentially inaccessible without lifting the body off the frame.

Potential resolution: Depin the suspect wires from BI1 and run new wire to the Accumulator and Control Valve. This would avoid having to find the actual fault and just bypass the entire harness. Didn't bring my wiring tools/parts with me today so didn't try this today.

Other faults may exist, but an open in that one circuit definitely throws code 1736 (verified on my personal car) and I suspect throws 1764 under the right circumstances while driving. Owner confirmed that the light flickers differently upon hard cornering - evidence to me that a smashed/failed wire section somewhere is to blame for this trouble and occasionally makes enough contact to fire up the pump and keep the car in N.

Significant oil residue on front right shock, but no dripping oil. Might just be over-pressure. Can't check pressures until trouble codes are cleared.

I hope we get to see this car again and test out the wire replacement. I suspect we'll get it back up and running with that.

Side note: the top screw holding the AHC ECU in place is a PITA to get out. Hardest part of the whole day was that damn screw...

@02LXLC made it back into the shop today for the final fix. Short story: AHC IS BACK!

Detail: We ran a new wire for the SLB signal for both the control valve and the height accumulator. The new wire is properly integrated into the OEM connectors using new sealed 090III terminals and tefzel insulated wire - naturally in the correct blue color. Zero cutting/splicing into OEM wire. I also had some expandable sheath in blue that I was able to use to cover most the wire as well. The wire was run along a similar path as the OEM harness for that section of wire and ziptied into place. The wire includes a butt splice where it branches off to the two devices and a waterproof splice with heat shrink was used.

Here's the only pic I ended up with of the wire. Too busy putting it to use to photograph it apparently.

All in all, the system just needed this one wire. That's it. Pump is good, shocks are good (though one is weeping a little too much), globes are good (albeit aged) and the system quickly changes heights as commanded. We adjusted one torsion bar three turns and that corrected a side to side lean and brought both front and back pressures into spec. Some future maintenance needed on the one shock and globe set, but nothing urgent for AHC right now.

#SaveAHC

 

[daohaus]

Old Man Emu is a downgrade, not an upgrade, IMO. Doubly so if you're driving this thing on the street.

Strut Master is garbage - potentially even dangerous. Erase them from your memory.

What is wrong with your system? There is no overall slow death to speak of, so I bet you're a simple repair or two away from a fully functioning AHC system. There is *NOTHING* in the AHC system that should cost $4k to replace, provided lines are healthy (not grossly rusted).

I don't offer AHC service as professional service (yet), but if you're desperate and want a quick opinion up in Frederick, CO on a day I'm in the Air Down Gear Up shop, perhaps we can meet up for a brief look.

PM me if you're interested.

Why can't you be in socal. I've been searching for someone knowledgeable to help me baseline my AHC

 

[suprarx7nut]

Why can't you be in socal. I've been searching for someone knowledgeable to help me baseline my AHC

I mean your car is mobile. have you seen Colorado this time of year? Worth a trek, I'd say...

 

[daohaus]

I mean your car is mobile. have you seen Colorado this time of year? Worth a trek, I'd say...

Funny you should say that. My brother n law just moved there. A trip just might be in the cards

And thank you for the videos you put up on your AHC tuning I got a lot of education from that

 

[IndroCruise]

@02LXLC made it back into the shop today for the final fix. Short story: AHC IS BACK!

Destail: We ran a new wire for the SLB signal for both the control valve and the height accumulator. The new wire is properly integrated into the OEM connectors using new sealed 090III terminals and tefzel insulated wire - naturally in the correct blue color. Zero cutting/splicing into OEM wire. I also had some expandable sheath in blue that I was able to use to cover most the wire as well. The wire was run along a similar path as the OEM harness for that section of wire and ziptied into place. The wire includes a butt splice where it branches off to the two devices and a waterproof splice with heat shrink was used.

Here's the only pic I ended up with of the wire. Too busy putting it to use to photograph it apparently.

View attachment 2789081

All in all, the system just needed this one wire. That's it. Pump is good, shocks are good (though one is weeping a little too much), globes are good (albeit aged) and the system quickly changes heights as commanded. We adjusted one torsion bar three turns and that corrected a side to side lean and brought both front and back pressures into spec. Some future maintenance needed on the one shock and globe set, but nothing urgent for AHC right now.

#SaveAHC

Great diagnosis and solution!!