Goose Gear 80 Series Engine Replacement (2 Viewers)

[TriaxialBulls]

I believe the point Ajax is making is that the place in Chatsworth that is offering a rebuilt long-block for $4k is NOT using OEM Toyota parts in the rebuild to come in at that price.

Yes... that's my point... you can get the same engine, with the same engineering and design, for much less...

I'm not trying to crap on your choice of going with a new unit. I think if you have the funds to do so, it's a great option.

I just cannot stand people who talk about OEM Toyota parts as if they're manufactured from Vibranium in the lost city of atlantis.

Are they very good quality parts?

Yes, of course.

Do other manufacturers also make excellent parts that meet the same specifications?

Yep.

Can a competent engine builder use these parts to build an engine that meets the same standards as an all-OEM engine?

Yes sir.

I really don't like it when some people on this forum make it seem like if you don't use all-OEM Toyoda parts and pray to Kiichiro Toyoda twice a day, your engine is going to blow up the first time you crank it over. Because there are a lot of inexperienced or less-knowledgeable people who read these forums and many not realize that there are plenty of options available to them, and using OEM parts is only one of those options.

Okay I'm done, enjoy your engine build. I'm sure the parts are very good quality, please don't think I'm trying to knock your choices at all. Just making a point.

 

[SoCal80series]

Yes... that's my point... you can get the same engine, with the same engineering and design, for much less...

I'm not trying to crap on your choice of going with a new unit. I think if you have the funds to do so, it's a great option.

I just cannot stand people who talk about OEM Toyota parts as if they're manufactured from Vibranium in the lost city of atlantis.

Are they very good quality parts?

Yes, of course.

Do other manufacturers also make excellent parts that meet the same specifications?

Yep.

Can a competent engine builder use these parts to build an engine that meets the same standards as an all-OEM engine?

Yes sir.

I really don't like it when some people on this forum make it seem like if you don't use all-OEM Toyoda parts and pray to Kiichiro Toyoda twice a day, your engine is going to blow up the first time you crank it over. Because there are a lot of inexperienced or less-knowledgeable people who read these forums and many not realize that there are plenty of options available to them, and using OEM parts is only one of those options.

Okay I'm done, enjoy your engine build. I'm sure the parts are very good quality, please don't think I'm trying to knock your choices at all. Just making a point.

I don't take offense at all. Part of the reason I am going OEM is because the purist are adamant about using them. For me, this is somewhat of an investment. I believe that I will be able to pull the value back out of it by using OEM. If I was rebuilding a Camry or RAV 4 it wouldn't matter what parts were being used so long as they were of good quality.

 

[Broski]

Exactly my point. You can get the same engine, with all the same engineering behind it, for much less.

The point I was making is it's not the same engine, It's a used block with unknown parts and a unknown builder.

Cheers

 

[TriaxialBulls]

The point I was making is it not the same engine, It's a used block with unknown parts and a unknown builder.

Cheers

I really don't mean to be condescending, but have you ever talked to an engine builder? Or even been in an engine shop? When you are looking to buy a remanufactured engine or have your engine rebuilt, you can talk to the builder and ask all about their credentials, experience, exactly what they are going to do to your particular engine, exactly what parts they're going to use, etc. You don't just drop it off at their shop and say "okay, you take it from here!"

And being a 'used' block does not matter as long as it was gone through by a competent machinist and rebuilt properly. Look at all the funny car dragsters making thousands of horsepower on 'used' big blocks that are rebuilt on a weekly basis and yet somehow turn out fine.

I'm sorry but this is exactly the kind of stuff that is bad about the LC community as a whole. Snobbery. It turns people off of owning one of these great vehicles and makes some people who cannot afford OEM parts all the time feel unwelcome.

I'm not encouraging people to go buy cheap knockoff parts on Alibaba, but there are lots of great options and routes to take that do not involve OEM parts.

 

[Broski]

I really don't mean to be condescending, but have you ever talked to an engine builder? Or even been in an engine shop? When you are looking to buy a remanufactured engine or have your engine rebuilt, you can talk to the builder and ask all about their credentials, experience, exactly what they are going to do to your particular engine, exactly what parts they're going to use, etc. You don't just drop it off at their shop and say "okay, you take it from here!"

And being a 'used' block does not matter as long as it was gone through by a competent machinist and rebuilt properly. Look at all the funny car dragsters making thousands of horsepower on 'used' big blocks that are rebuilt on a weekly basis and yet somehow turn out fine.

I'm sorry but this is exactly the kind of stuff that is bad about the LC community as a whole. Snobbery. It turns people off of owning one of these great vehicles and makes some people who cannot afford OEM parts all the time feel unwelcome.

I'm not encouraging people to go buy cheap knockoff parts on Alibaba, but there are lots of great options and routes to take that do not involve OEM parts.

Dude I think you have you panties on to tight, I'm not even a Toyota purest, I have be a ford guy all my life even then I always prefer OEM parts.
There just no way you can compare a brand new short block to a remanufactured one.
The OP starts a cool thread building a New OEM block engine build and you come on the thread and say he could buy a rebuild one fore half the cost again simply not the same.
And yes at 62 years of age I been working on old junk for over 5 decades and been in a few rebuild shops. and I know that racers rebuild the engines but they know exactly what's going into those engines and there building with unlimited funds and to win.
Rebuild shops are rebuilding engines for a profit. again not the same.
If your so adamant about remanufactured engines you should start you own thread and quit mucking up Socal80s thread.

Sorry for the hijack rant over.

Cheers

 

[TriaxialBulls]

Dude I think you have you panties on to tight, I'm not even a Toyota purest, I have be a ford guy all my life even then I always prefer OEM parts.
There just no way you can compare a brand new short block to a remanufactured one.
The OP starts a cool thread building a New OEM block engine build and you come on the thread and say he could buy a rebuild one fore half the cost again simply not the same.
And yes at 62 years of age I been working on old junk for over 5 decades and been in a few rebuild shops. and I know that racers rebuild the engines but they know exactly what's going into those engines and there building with unlimited funds and to win.
Rebuild shops are rebuilding engines for a profit. again not the same.
If your so adamant about remanufactured engines you should start you own thread and quit mucking up Socal80s thread.

Sorry for the hijack rant over.

Cheers

I explicitly stated that I am not trying to rag on OP, and he understands that. I am just trying to provide the perspective that OEM parts are not the only way to go, nor are they necessarily the best option in all scenarios. There are many ways to skin a cat.

And you're arguing that independent engine shops are bad because they work to make a profit??? Right, because Mr. T is making no profit on $3000 shortblocks, they are selling them out of the goodness in their heart

 

[Grandlooser]

I can agree with some of everything I read here. OP choice has been made so little point in digging into that. The new OEM might bring some premium to the value for resale but Im not sure it does so enough to make up for the investment itself which makes it kind of a moot point. There is no new car warrantee coming with it whether new OEM or not. And the fact that it's OEM parts being assembled by someone who ISN'T Toyota means there is still plenty of room for botched work to happen somewhere. That said, if I could afford it without feeling broke after I would do the same.

Source: someone who is currently finishing a 1fz rebuild done meticulously myself and will probably land at around $3k total.

Anyways.

I feel like assembling a new head with new OR old parts could be a pain in the ass just due to having to dial in the valve clearance. I find it quite unlikely the old parts going in the new casting are going to be even close to factory shipped tolerances which means a whole other PITA and expense. Maybe you'll luck out

 

[SoCal80series]

I can agree with some of everything I read here. OP choice has been made so little point in digging into that. The new OEM might bring some premium to the value for resale but Im not sure it does so enough to make up for the investment itself which makes it kind of a moot point. There is no new car warrantee coming with it whether new OEM or not. And the fact that it's OEM parts being assembled by someone who ISN'T Toyota means there is still plenty of room for botched work to happen somewhere. That said, if I could afford it without feeling broke after I would do the same.

Source: someone who is currently finishing a 1fz rebuild done meticulously myself and will probably land at around $3k total.

Anyways.

I feel like assembling a new head with new OR old parts could be a pain in the ass just due to having to dial in the valve clearance. I find it quite unlikely the old parts going in the new casting are going to be even close to factory shipped tolerances which means a whole other PITA and expense. Maybe you'll luck out

I am not as experienced as many on this board. Doing an engine rebuild/replacement is new to me. I openly confess my mistakes and ignorance. I am working with my mechanic on this. Part of the reason I put this up on Mud is to get the input of the community to help make this build the best that it can be. I value all of the input that I receive. I am not going to put old parts on the engine that simply don't make sense. On the other hand, I don't want to put parts on needlessly. I am counting on this community to help me in the process. I have others who I know personally also helping me. I want this to be more than a role of the dice.

 

[Bludozer]

I am not as experienced as many on this board. Doing an engine rebuild/replacement is new to me. I openly confess my mistakes and ignorance. I am working with my mechanic on this. Part of the reason I put this up on Mud is to get the input of the community to help make this build the best that it can be. I value all of the input that I receive. I am not going to put old parts on the engine that simply don't make sense. On the other hand, I don't want to put parts on needlessly. I am counting on this community to help me in the process. I have others who I know personally also helping me. I want this to be more than a role of the dice.

Love the approach. I am a fellow ignorant moron as well, luckily this is the best place to be for guys like us, lots of knowledge here willingly shared by people with countless years of experience.

 

[TriaxialBulls]

I am not as experienced as many on this board. Doing an engine rebuild/replacement is new to me. I openly confess my mistakes and ignorance. I am working with my mechanic on this. Part of the reason I put this up on Mud is to get the input of the community to help make this build the best that it can be. I value all of the input that I receive. I am not going to put old parts on the engine that simply don't make sense. On the other hand, I don't want to put parts on needlessly. I am counting on this community to help me in the process. I have others who I know personally also helping me. I want this to be more than a role of the dice.

When you buy a new or remanufactured long block ALL of the parts there will be new, with the only exceptions being the head, maybe the valve cover, maybe the block itself, maybe the crankshaft and MAYBE the cams. But all of these parts will have been re-machined to be brought back to within OEM specification if necessary). So if you want a 'new' OEM engine, you should replace all of the parts in that diagram you posted earlier with brand new OEM parts. Things you could get away with not replacing are the accessories (if they're still in god shape) and the manifolds.

Did the short block come with knock sensors? If not you'll want to replace those as well.

Edit: And the whole timing assembly. Chain, both guides, tensioner, and sprockets.

 

[Grandlooser]

There's no way the block ships with any sensors.

 

[TriaxialBulls]

There's no way the block ships with any sensors.

Yeah I don't think so either. Or the whole timing assembly like I added in the edit to my last post.

What about the whole oil cooler assembly on the passenger side of the block?

OP if you really want to go all-OEM on this you've still got a lot of parts to buy.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

If the day comes I will go the OEM course mainly because ever rebuild I have been familiar with runs slightly hotter than normal. Possible because of the bore possible just a fluke but given the choice I want virgin holes.

 

[SoCal80series]

When you buy a new or remanufactured long block ALL of the parts there will be new, with the only exceptions being the head, maybe the valve cover, maybe the block itself, maybe the crankshaft and MAYBE the cams. But all of these parts will have been re-machined to be brought back to within OEM specification if necessary). So if you want a 'new' OEM engine, you should replace all of the parts in that diagram you posted earlier with brand new OEM parts. Things you could get away with not replacing are the accessories (if they're still in god shape) and the manifolds.

Did the short block come with knock sensors? If not you'll want to replace those as well.

Edit: And the whole timing assembly. Chain, both guides, tensioner, and sprockets.

My goal isn't to have a "brand new" complete engine. I started with the short block, because I needed that and decided to get the head because I believed it would make sense. My mistake (and I make lots of them!) was I thought it was a head assembly and not just the casting. As for the other parts, I will reuse them if they are still viable and it makes sense. At this juncture, with an exhausted wallet I will likely reuse the old head if it's still good and sit on the new head to do at a later date when it makes more sense financially. I will not spend money I don't have.

 

[TriaxialBulls]

My goal isn't to have a "brand new" complete engine. I started with the short block, because I needed that and decided to get the head because I believed it would make sense. My mistake (and I make lots of them!) was I thought it was a head assembly and not just the casting. As for the other parts, I will reuse them if they are still viable and it makes sense. At this juncture, with an exhausted wallet I will likely reuse the old head if it's still good and sit on the new head to do at a later date when it makes more sense financially. I will not spend money I don't have.

If you're going to try and mix new parts with those from your old engine, you need to find out exactly how you old 1FZ 'blew' to figure out if using the old head is even viable. There are many ways in which an engine can fail and also ruin the head in the process. If the head is damaged, there are some tools at a shop's disposal to try and salvage it but with a DOHC aluminum heads it can be tough.

 

[Grandlooser]

The last few times I went balls deep in mechanically perfecting a vehicle for the sake of increasing it's resale I got excited to tell the potential buyer all the details about what I had done and what they were getting only to have them be like "cool story, does the radio work"?

Or watch them lazily kind of bend over at the hip and glance at a frame rail for 5 seconds and be like "yeah, it looks clean underneath" after like 50 hours of removing the body to sand blast and spray $400 worth of paint on every square inch .

Not sure why this is relevant

 

[SoCal80series]

If you're going to try and mix new parts with those from your old engine, you need to find out exactly how you old 1FZ 'blew' to figure out if using the old head is even viable. There are many ways in which an engine can fail and also ruin the head in the process. If the head is damaged, there are some tools at a shop's disposal to try and salvage it but with a DOHC aluminum heads it can be tough.

I'm going to rely on my mechanic for that. He won't put a damaged head on the short-block. At that point I am going to begin digging in the couch cushions to find the $1k for the new valves.

 

[Grandlooser]

This is a lot of posts without new pictures

 

[SoCal80series]

After all these posts this is where I would like to be (This is for you @Grandlooser):

We will return to are regularly scheduled posts shortly.

 

[brettk]

Whatever route you choose on the valves, my suggestion would be to at least replace the valve stem seals. Our 94 burns oil like crazy, and with all the other new parts you have, you’re gonna kick yourself every time you dump a quart of oil in between changes.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this, you’re the man!