Whats everyone using for upgraded sway bars now? (3 Viewers)

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More articulation better?....yes it is, however it's pretty unstable off camber. Well see how it goes being slower off road to combat the roughness of having sway bars..

I drove for about 6mo with both sway bars completely removed & what I found is that I'd rather be able to take overpasses and canyons at normal speeds then have to slow down due to the sway...

This only applies if you don’t add a ton of weight to your rig...

If you want to get rid of the downsides of a torsion bar anti-swaybar interacting with your suspension, the choice is dual rate coils paired with a shock maximally designed to operate in that system.

Dual rate coils increase spring rate out to the outer side in cornering and reduce it on the inside, very much like a torsion bar, but they don’t interact negatively by creating oversteer and the snap back you get from a torsion bar.

You cannot have so much weight that you have overwhelmed the transitional section of a dual rate coil, but if you design around minimizing extra weight it is better to design cornering performance into the suspension rather than a torsion bar, and there are a lot of reasons for this.

“I removed my swaybars” not a neutral statement. And is also not automatically positive or negative because you shouldn’t be doing it as an isolated variable.

People spend a bank adding weight to their 80s, robbing clearance, on and offroad performance, and suspension dynamics in the process.

It is a “good” idea to “upgrade” your swaybars if you choose this design path. Obviously a lot of people choose an 80 in order to haul ass with a lot of stuff - not bagging on that, just noting that there options if you have a different requirement.

The factory rear is a lot more problematic than people think, maybe more so than the front outside of the whole rip out the brakeline problem.

I thought you needed it to help the front flex until I pulled it because it had contact with my foam cell pro shocks, and then everything was better so I sold my rear rebuild kit and recycled that mf. Good riddance.
 
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It is a “good” idea to “upgrade” your swaybars if you choose this design path. Obviously a lot of people choose an 80 in order to haul ass with a lot of stuff - not bagging on that, just noting that there options if you have a different requirement.
I'm one of those people who likes to haul arse with my 7k svelte honey buns and happily gave up the sexy flexy of the old years. In fact, I went down one inch of lift just cause I simply have too much weight (RTT+awning) up on my roof. But, after getting beat up for days on trails with the front sway bar is attached, it's time to return to the QDs. I'm sure I'm gonna cringe on the off-camber stuff and will sheepishly ask some of my, ahem, thick friends to step on the slider rails to act as ballast but I'm ok with that.

Back in the days of oem sway bars, simply QD'ing the fronts yielded in the front suspension opening up nicely and the occupants didn't get bounced around much either. Hoping to duplicate that scenario with the Whitelines.
 
Yeah I stand corrected, I won't be going back to bolted on front sway, Ill still use the quick disconnect for the front.

Just upgraded to the white lines, the front connected will be too stiff off road..

Hoping that the upgraded rear will help off camber since I too carry much added weight..

I will be attaching the front after trail use, I'd like to be able to handle better on canyon roads..

Heck I'll even try street use with the front pinned up out of place and see if the upgraded rear is enough to help keep her flat..most likely no, the sway bars work as intended in unison..
 
Given all the varieties of suspension setup, unsprung weights, lifts, overall weights ranging from 5500# - 8000#, rooftop weight ranging of 100#- 400#, and others with 500# hanging fruit off the back you are not going to get a set up that works for all. Period

For me -
~2.5" lift
light 35's
7000# gross
150# on the roof
Zero hanging fruit
Rear HD SB
Front stock SB connected 90% of the time
Results - Smooth and hard to keep up with on or off the road :flipoff2:
 
Good Morning guys, for all the people asking if the Whiteline Rear Sway Bars are currently available, the answer is yes. However only 4 rears are left at the moment.
The next batch of 30 bars will be in around end of May/early June. Fronts are still available.
Please DM if you have any questions. Thanks!
 
Rather than disconnecting your swaybars for wheeling, check out these links. With a bit of tinkering and different brackets I'm sure they could be made to work on an 80. The links have a piston inside that is normally locked. When going offroad, simply twist the blue cap and it unlocks the piston, giving the links full range of motion with the axle.


Lots of pictures in action: Login • Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/apexdesignsusa/

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I checked out ApexDesignesUSA and one of the comments was about a 80 to which they replied, working on making units for the Toyota platform. Very interesting concept, I think.
 
I'm one of those people who likes to haul arse with my 7k svelte honey buns and happily gave up the sexy flexy of the old years. In fact, I went down one inch of lift just cause I simply have too much weight (RTT+awning) up on my roof. But, after getting beat up for days on trails with the front sway bar is attached, it's time to return to the QDs. I'm sure I'm gonna cringe on the off-camber stuff and will sheepishly ask some of my, ahem, thick friends to step on the slider rails to act as ballast but I'm ok with that.

Back in the days of oem sway bars, simply QD'ing the fronts yielded in the front suspension opening up nicely and the occupants didn't get bounced around much either. Hoping to duplicate that scenario with the Whitelines.

It may be worth thinking shocks through again. With my bars removed, I can grab my roof rack and I can’t get any side to side sway. I used to be able to rock the boat easily.

The translates offroad and makes off camber a lot more comfortable. I’m running Ironman foam cell pro shocks now, which not only got rid of the sway but also my rear swaybar because they are too big to fit without full droop contact. And no more nitro charging, what a PITA.

I had fully intended to find a way to run the rear, but in taking it off a) all the racket ass clanking back there went away, b) the whole under/oversteer dynamic disappeared, c) actual sway was not affected at all, and d) wheeling stability improved.

A lot of that is the shocks, but I personally don’t like how the stock mounted swaybars interact with a lifted suspension onroad, much less offroad.

A lot of people are trying to minimize lift excessively, adding body lifts to a solid front axle rig of all things to compensate, and it more than little bit points to needing more than beefing up stock mounted anti-sway devices.

I’ve always been “don’t feed the pig” design oriented and refused to add all of the overlanding collateral, but sure seems we’d be well served by some solutions that aren’t stock mounted. A 4” lift is nothing on an 80, yet it’s out of spec for most. That sucks if you really wheel your rig.
 
Nay, I'm in the same camp. Keep it light and nimble.
I removed both front and rear sway bars 5 years ago when I first got my 80 and started building it. To me it has not felt unstable on or off road. That being said I don't expect it handle like a sports car. It's a lifted 4x4 and I drive it accordingly.
 
It may be worth thinking shocks through again. With my bars removed, I can grab my roof rack and I can’t get any side to side sway. I used to be able to rock the boat easily.

The translates offroad and makes off camber a lot more comfortable. I’m running Ironman foam cell pro shocks now, which not only got rid of the sway but also my rear swaybar because they are too big to fit without full droop contact. And no more nitro charging, what a PITA.

I had fully intended to find a way to run the rear, but in taking it off a) all the racket ass clanking back there went away, b) the whole under/oversteer dynamic disappeared, c) actual sway was not affected at all, and d) wheeling stability improved.

A lot of that is the shocks, but I personally don’t like how the stock mounted swaybars interact with a lifted suspension onroad, much less offroad.

A lot of people are trying to minimize lift excessively, adding body lifts to a solid front axle rig of all things to compensate, and it more than little bit points to needing more than beefing up stock mounted anti-sway devices.

I’ve always been “don’t feed the pig” design oriented and refused to add all of the overlanding collateral, but sure seems we’d be well served by some solutions that aren’t stock mounted. A 4” lift is nothing on an 80, yet it’s out of spec for most. That sucks if you really wheel your rig.

I have been using the same shocks as you for a little over a year and they're great shocks indeed.
 
no sway bars for me since I bought it in 2013. Running Slee / ADS shocks and 4 inch lift and seems fine to me. No sports car but I drive slow.
 
Running without swaybars isn't terrible for normal daily driving and for moderate offroad speeds. Clearly some prefer not using the swaybars when running more difficult trails. I've wheeled with Broski and know he doesn't run swaybars. But he generally runs trails that are more difficult and speeds aren't very high.

If you also drive at higher speeds offroad then a lack of swaybars can become pretty sketchy. This is where disconnects can be a good solution, allowing you to use swaybars for fast driving and disconnect for slow/difficult trails.

From my experience there is very little gained benefit from disconnecting or running without swaybars. The gained suspension travel is roughly 1" in the front and less than .5" in the rear. I will still disconnect my front swaybar on occasion but 99% of the time I leave them both in place. I have a stock front swaybar and a HD Blackhawk rear swaybar with LCP HD rear links.

Before I got the LCP rear links I was on a multi day trip where our offroad speeds were quite fast. At one point a couple days into the trip I had some noise from the front and found that one of the front swaybar bushings had torn and fallen out and the swaybar was clanking around on the bolt. So I disconnected the front swaybar. Handling at the faster speeds was still pretty good with the HD rear swaybar. A day or so later, the stock rear swaybar link broke so I had to remove the rear swaybar.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Trying to maintain the speeds we were driving was not possible and was a white knuckled experience and wasn't safe for me or for others we might encounter since the loss of some handling could make quick stops or other quick changes unsafe . So the only option was to slow down. That's often not a big deal to slow down but our route etc was planned for specific distances each day and slowing down put our schedule at risk.

So I'm definitely one who prefers to run with both swaybars. Particularly since there is such a minimal benefit of running without them.
 
I'm hoping I can get my big fat TOYO's tucked in like that soon... probably a big mistake getting the fat pigs but :meh:
Rather than disconnecting your swaybars for wheeling, check out these links. With a bit of tinkering and different brackets I'm sure they could be made to work on an 80. The links have a piston inside that is normally locked. When going offroad, simply twist the blue cap and it unlocks the piston, giving the links full range of motion with the axle.
I'm surprised crickets on this. I would think a great idea with the 30 MM upgrades. Seems like you would have to pull the front sway bars back up to the body again to make it work right but need to look closer. Interested and will have the front end pulled apart soon, have to look to see if even room. Probably in the $$$$ territory tho.
 
These pics are from Tuesday this week. Suspension still moving well with both swaybars in place. 37x13.50 on 3" Slinky suspension.
Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

Untitled by Adam Tolman, on Flickr
Adam, there's no doubt about your Rig it works well, and one of the cleanest Rig on mud that actually gets wheeled.
The nice thing about the 80 series is it works well in a variety of conditions, that also means there not a one size fits all
I'm sure you Rig weighs substantially more then my Reg and running hi speeds on dirt roads with out sway bars could be a white knuckle experience, where my Rig is basically the same weight as a stock 80 and feels perfectly safe and controlled at high speed running down dirt roads with no sway bars.
Also the rear sway bar is low hanging fruit.
After our last trip to Johnson Valley (The Hammers) NoahRob's rear sway bar was completely mangled, again it not a one size fits all, not many people want to take their 80 to JV but we like to go at least once a year.
Basically just trying to say what works well on one Rig mite not be right for the next Rig.
Sway bars or no sway bars lets WHEEL!!!!
 
Adam, there's no doubt about your Rig it works well, and one of the cleanest Rig on mud that actually gets wheeled.
The nice thing about the 80 series is it works well in a variety of conditions, that also means there not a one size fits all
I'm sure you Rig weighs substantially more then my Reg and running hi speeds on dirt roads with out sway bars could be a white knuckle experience, where my Rig is basically the same weight as a stock 80 and feels perfectly safe and controlled at high speed running down dirt roads with no sway bars.
Also the rear sway bar is low hanging fruit.
After our last trip to Johnson Valley (The Hammers) NoahRob's rear sway bar was completely mangled, again it not a one size fits all, not many people want to take their 80 to JV but we like to go at least once a year.
Basically just trying to say what works well on one Rig mite not be right for the next Rig.
Sway bars or no sway bars lets WHEEL!!!!
Yeah your rig and mine have some differences. In many ways I wish my 80 was a bit more like yours. Actually, what I really want is a second 80 that's built like yours (lean and mean).
I love your 80 Rich! If I was running the trails you do more frequently, I would change how mine is built. But multi-day trips with the whole family are more common for me these days and I just have to take more "stuff" for 5 of us. I do get the occasional "guys trip" where I'm solo and can play a bit more.
The story about running without swaybars I mentioned was when the truck was quite a bit lighter. Still had a full rear bumper and swing out etc but it was several hundred pounds lighter than it is now. The swaybar makes the biggest difference in the corners when going fast in the dirt (DUH! haha) Speeds in the straighter sections of dirt roads can be pretty close with or without swaybars, but there really is a significant difference in comfortable corner speeds on rigs with and without swaybars.
 
Yeah your rig and mine have some differences. In many ways I wish my 80 was a bit more like yours. Actually, what I really want is a second 80 that's built like yours (lean and mean).
I love your 80 Rich! If I was running the trails you do more frequently, I would change how mine is built. But multi-day trips with the whole family are more common for me these days and I just have to take more "stuff" for 5 of us. I do get the occasional "guys trip" where I'm solo and can play a bit more.
The story about running without swaybars I mentioned was when the truck was quite a bit lighter. Still had a full rear bumper and swing out etc but it was several hundred pounds lighter than it is now. The swaybar makes the biggest difference in the corners when going fast in the dirt (DUH! haha) Speeds in the straighter sections of dirt roads can be pretty close with or without swaybars, but there really is a significant difference in comfortable corner speeds on rigs with and without swaybars.
Adam, I totally get it most of the time I'm rolling solo. Even when I do multi-day trip usually it's just me and I take a minimalist approach,everything fits inside,the heaviest thing is my ARB fridge.
I have not weighted it but my guess it under 150lbs of gear.
Ha ha, I two would like to have another 80 to keep mostly stock maybe a mild overland build. current prices, and the Wife are holding me back 🤷‍♂️.
Sway bars definitely have there place, I'm not against them I just don't care for the OEM offering. watch my build thread for up coming Mods ;)
 
Swaybars are important. Whether you're just driving down the road, racing down the desert or doing slow speed rock crawling. We're the only plebs that remove the swaybars because we don't have aftermarket options and don't wanna spend the time and money for a proper solution. Anybody who says they don't need them hasn't been in an emergency evasive maneuver at highway speeds. Guarantee you'll end up on your lid with all that oversteer in the factory geometry.

If you've ever seen a well built rig with 3 piece torsion swaybars in action, you'd know how well they work. Jeep guys are spoiled because they have a ton of bolt on options.

We don't need disconnects, what we need is a good Antirock-style solution that's as bolt-on as possible. Several guys are running these front and rear already. I'm surprised Delta hasn't taken this on.
 
Swaybars are important. Whether you're just driving down the road, racing down the desert or doing slow speed rock crawling. We're the only plebs that remove the swaybars because we don't have aftermarket options and don't wanna spend the time and money for a proper solution. Anybody who says they don't need them hasn't been in an emergency evasive maneuver at highway speeds. Guarantee you'll end up on your lid with all that oversteer in the factory geometry.

If you've ever seen a well built rig with 3 piece torsion swaybars in action, you'd know how well they work. Jeep guys are spoiled because they have a ton of bolt on options.

We don't need disconnects, what we need is a good Antirock-style solution that's as bolt-on as possible. Several guys are running these front and rear already. I'm surprised Delta hasn't taken this on.
^THIS. Until we get that, I'm quite happy with my current solution.
 
Great read Mud :flipoff2:

Our daughter's had back to back mountain bike races up near clearlake california and driving from around the Bay area into hours of windy roads has really shown me how bad the body roll is.

@LandCruiserPhil as always sir I like your style, I'm going to order a white line rear 30mm and run the stock front. I'm also going to pm you, I got a craving for a jack beer holder.......

For those that will read this later I will report back. My suspension setup is as follows
*Stock sway bars with all new factory bushings of course there from @NLXTACY
*Delta Vehicle Systems radius arms
*Delta Vehicle Systems bump stops
*Delta Vehicle Systems front sway bar drop
*Dobinson 3" heavy, coils c59-170 front & 171 rear

I did the Delta Vehicle Systems treat yourself Dobinson variant kit, @Delta VS is awesome to work with if anyone is wondering. And, thank you Dave for the white line sway bar suggestion as well.
 

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