Builds Shipwreck (2 Viewers)

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so... coming back from wheeling, the '40 was sputtering. I attributed it to the 'tach noise' fault code.. maybe not. Yesterday, then again today, it wouldn't start... got to looking and the tank had moved a bit because both straps were loose - perhaps cutting fuel flow. (there's more to this story, but that's the basics).... it wouldn't start before I loosened the seat, then started just fine once I did.
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so this is going to happen.... I have some other updates coming too - I didn't know that the exhaust ports on a Vortec head do not match all ports. Of course the headers I modified were ones that don't match - so I've ordered new headers (which I'll cut apart and weld to the existing headers) to rid myself of the exhaust leak. While I'm at it, I'll wrap the mufflers the put metal around the outside to protect them (or just make boat sides). Finally, I'm going to lower the seats as much as I can then build a box in the back where I can put a seat on top for more passengers.
also changed insurance companies and they wanted pictures.


Insurance pictures
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so diagnose day.
starting here
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chinesium for that I never figured anyone could be that inept...
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and back to where I started.... except the pump finally died enough that cycling it shows that there is zero fuel pressure at the TBI.... and a screw you to holley
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after talking to FiTech (yeah, talking, you know, what Holley doesn't do) we decided that a backflow preventer would be advisable. Today I installed (briefly) a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel line and it was developing pressure (and a leak - thanks china). once I reconnected everything back up, it wouldn't prime... zero psi at the TBI.... we found the problem. I emailed Holley and FiTech last night, FiTech responded this morning, so far crickets from Holley. Tried to follow it up yesterday with a tech line question - spent an hour on hold listening to the same 20s loop.... no joy. which leads me to the post above. I have a backflow coming, I've got an Aeromotive pump coming, and I'll send the Holley pump back for them to do whatever they do with all the other crap they build... if I get a new pump back great, I'll let you know, if I don't... I'll be advertising for them :flipoff2:
 
oh such fun. So far the string from Holley
Your Question Was:

the fuel pump is bleeding off pressure when the engine is off - it takes several cycles of the fuel pump to get pressure back to a level where the fuel system will work. Once it''s been started, it will start again, but that first time takes several time for the pump to develop enough of a prime. It might have 500 miles on it since it was installed.



If you have further questions, please reply directly to this email with history without altering the subject line.

Thanks for contacting Holley Products Tech Support.

Lots of things to look at on your Cruiser. I need to know the specs on your fuel delivery. Did you use the stock feed and return lines? What is size of feed and return lines 3/8"? Did you flush the lines after installing the system? What size of fuel filter are you using? (10 micron-30 micron) What is the fuel pressure at the EFI? What is your return line fuel pressure? What type regulator are you using and its flow rating. The return pressure should be 0-5 PSI. Some pressure bleed off is normal for EFI as the regulator should by-pass pressure back to the return line when the engine is off. I am wondering if you have a restriction issue. Does your FiTech unit have a pump start delay mapped or a starting line pressure level percentage mapped? If you have checked line pressure after the pump, after the filters, and at the EFI and its nominal then there is a pickup issue, restriction problem or pump issue. As I said at the beginning there is a lot to check with pressure loss. If you have done all of these checks and isolated the problem to the pump then we can test it for flow rate.

There's a second, follow up email. The tl;dr is the pump is failing to prime (despite being submerged in fuel). Answering your questions.

1) everything feed and return related is -6 an and brand new and is teflon s/s line. Even the fuel tank is brand new.

2) I'm using the hydramat as my filter.

3) it's an FiTech 30002, pressure is whatever FiTech set. I had a gauge on it, and when it worked it was just under 50 psi.

4) the return line is empty - picture a Toyota FJ40 fuel system - the gas tank is under the passenger seat and inside the cabin.

5) the problem at the start of all of this is the feed line would be at zero psi, yesterday, I bought a backflow preventer but still am waiting for it to arrive - that said, given its failure to prime when I reassembled the system, I can't imagine that will help with the current situation.



my responses contain the update - I put a gauge on it last night, got pressure, then when I reassembled the system, it wouldn't prime. This copies the problems I've been having. Because it took you 2 days to respond, I bought an Aeromotive pump. I figure I'll follow the rules and send this pump back when I get that replacement. To say I'm more then a little annoyed at the customer service from Holley would be an understatement. Let me color that more with this. I spent an hour on hold and never did talk to anyone at Holley. FiTech, for reference, contacted me yesterday morning and we went through the steps on the EFI.

I apologize for your wait times on the phone and for us getting not back to you in a timely manner. We have been experiencing a surge in call and email volume since the COVID-19 pandemic. We are aware of the issue and are doing our best to get customers handled in a timely manner. We are also taking steps to increase our staff capacity to help handle the demand. I apologize we have not been able to respond faster to your communications.



A submerged pump not priming and producing immediate pressure could be a defective pump. If not a pump issue it could be a mounting issue but it sounds like your installation is fine with the fuel blanket. I would like to see if we can go ahead and return the pump. We will test it and if found defective will replace it for you. If I could get you to email me the proof of purchase and I will send you call tag/shipping label to have the pump shipped back to us for testing and replacement. Again I apologize for all the issues you have been having and I hope we can make this right. If I could have the address you would like me to send the return call tag to I will get the process started.
  • Not quite sure how I could improperly install it - especially since it was running for 500 miles. You know, the stuff from the first email (and this is going to be a re-occurring theme).


But let's raise and dismiss your excuse. FiTech is presumptively struggling with the same general issues, yet they responded in 12 hours. That, alone, makes your response both condescending and only increases my resolution to never let Holley do this to me again.

So let's sum up what you've 'done' for me so far.

1) you respond 48 hours after I email - which is not timely.
2) you ask questions that would be answered if you'd simply looked at the invoice number I enclosed at the very start.
3) you offer nothing more than what I'm entitled to under warranty.
4) you want me to leave my vehicle completely apart for however many months it takes for you to look at the pump and say "yep, doesn't work."

Let me sum up where I am.

I think there are other options and while I will demand you replace the pump after I send it back, the odds of me buying from you or recommending you to the 100,000 or so people who follow my build blogs is pretty damn slim. It's ironic that Blueprint motors went to you because of customer service, from where I sit; you're the enemy. I've already spent more than $200 fixing an issue that is your fault.

Then you tell me that you're working to fix the issues. I'd be interested to hear the metric with which you believe that is true. To some Covid is a burden, to Holley, it's simply an excuse for continued, poor customer service.


Response to email about sending it back

Your Question Was:

I asked a question yesterday, of course you didn''''t bother answering.... so the new question today is how do I get it replaced? I''''m more then a little disgusted at your poor customer service.

I apologize for your wait times on the phone and for us getting not back to you in a timely manner. We have been experiencing a surge in call and email volume since the COVID-19 pandemic. We are aware of the issue and are doing our best to get customers handled in a timely manner. We are also taking steps to increase our staff capacity to help handle the demand. I apologize we have not been able to respond faster to your communications.

A submerged pump not priming and producing immediate pressure could be a defective pump. If not a pump issue it could be a mounting issue but it sounds like your installation is fine with the fuel blanket. I would like to see if we can go ahead and return the pump. We will test it and if found defective will replace it for you. If I could get you to email me the proof of purchase and I will send you call tag/shipping label to have the pump shipped back to us for testing and replacement. Again I apologize for all the issues you have been having and I hope we can make this right. If I could have the address you would like me to send the return call tag to I will get the process started.
 
the end of it... I'm accepting the 12-157 service kit (which is equal to the Aeromotive that is coming)... this goes on my shelf


Sir, I understand you are upset and I’m offering you a warranty replacement part if you feel you have a defect. I understand you have ordered a different Aeromotive replacement pump before we could make any determinations. We strive to ask questions, be thorough and help find a solution that could be quickly resolved in the field and not just waste time and resources on sending parts to replace parts that were otherwise fine is part of the technical service process. I apologize again that the timeframes it takes to arrive at this determination via email is insufficient.



I am in fact offering you beyond what your warranty entitles you to. Warranty coverage extends 90 days on fuel pump products past the point of purchase but at our discretion we do support past that under special circumstances. That would be an exchange 12-136 (I would need that unit sent in for inspection that turnaround time is less than 48 hours after we receive it and order you a new 12-136 and you’d receive it when it becomes available, in this case, yes a few months) or a much faster solution of a replacement pump if you want to replace just that component (We are working through back-orders, but service kit 12-157 is available, and would service that module as well as upgrade the pump capacity to 450 LPH) and you can ship me the defective pump when you have it replaced, but is there something else you are looking for beyond that?



If that is acceptable just let me know and we’ll get the pump moving your direction and we’ll create a shipping label to get the defective pump back. I would need you to confirm your shipping information to get that in motion.
 
refused that - why do I need another Holley part to sit on my shelf?.... but the plot thickens. I got the system to finally fill with fuel - but still no joy. Went to check software stuff and the handheld says "below minimum"... wth? I didn't set it, so it's now got a minimum and I'm below it.... awesome.... then it gets worse. FiTech has a dropbox with the software so you can easily update..... well, except some person, likely from that other 4x4 site, deleted it. Ah well, it's too hot work outside anyway.
 
had I slid the picture down just a touch...
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I would have seen the problem. The IAC wasn't plugged in - not taking the blame this time. Nice thing, though, if it was Holley, I'd probably still be on hold with their warranty department. I called FiTech today, he gave me a couple of things to look at. I did, and it lead me to the problem. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, before you buy an expensive, complex product... be sure their customer service department will answer your phone calls.
 
peesalot said:
OH, good, it's running.
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better than ever, but all is not happy in happyland, apparently there is a problem with the electric fan. Of course, it doesn't actually have an electric fan and the e-fan system is 'off' in the handheld... I think I'll leave it alone, maybe then if there other gremlins they're wait until I fix that issue before popping up.

though I am scared, everything is running really well atm. better check to see if my bike is ready to go...
 
Someone once gave me grief about wheeling in my yard.... it's a good yard, and while I work on it, I keep having to remove rocks... eventually the entire island will be a rock garden with rocks I've pulled out while fixing my yard
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and the corner... I keep putting rocks there because the delivery guys just can't drive 2 extra feet before turning and it creates a huge hole at that corner... now it creates huge scratches and dents :D
 
I've owned this 6 years, tomorrow. thinking its next upgrade will be diesel and (sadly) an automatic.... too many years racing and biking and my knee is saying 'enough'... it'll be a bit, but that is the next goal.... likely it will be a 6.5 turbo diesel but who knows, if a 2.8 cummins fell from the sky; I'd love that right in there too.... but at this point 7k for a 2.8 Cummins vs. maybe 4k in the Detroit diesel and there we go.
 
74fj40 said:
What about GMs new v6? The LV3.
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it's a great option, I have the baby D in my Colorado and love it - but I think availability will be an issue, I've bid on several Colorado diesels and they are still getting more then I'm willing to spend... I don't know how they make money on them, but more power to them if they can....
 
FiTech update.

point here is not how to tune, but that you should tune.

Add fuel. The 'stock' air/fuel ratios probably work well for stone stock motors, but if it's warmed at all (even with setting the cam level correctly), it's still a very lean number (14.7). What you set it to on yours will depend on the motor - mine runs far better (and gets better fuel economy) at 14.0 idle, 13.7 at cruise and 13.2 WOT. To give an idea of the range, my Corvette, with the 12:1 compression, bottom of the page solid roller cam: it runs right at 13.0 idle, 12.9 light cruise and 11.5 at WOT. There are also attendant changes that need to be made at tip-in fuel, mid, and rapid fueling as well - along with fueling when you come out of the throttle. It will run without changing those things, but runs far better if you do. You'll realize this but you need to 'send to computer' after each change otherwise only the first change will save.

nice thing about this, though, I don't end up smelling like fuel as I would after changing jets, power valve(s) and air bleeds - nor do I get burned pulling plugs to read them. With the EFI system, you're still going to pull a plug but not every time.
 
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