Stuck on the fence of a 200 (1 Viewer)

[ArnieC]

Few data points also being from the Milwaukee area.

• I went from a full size F250 to a 100 to a 200 series. Would never go back to a 100 for something I wanted to daily drive. Just not that great any more. Wasnt a whole lot better than my 2003 WRX in terms of comfort. Having it as a 3rd car - well - thats up to you. I wouldnt want a Hundy in Wisconsin though, no real offroad opportunities and onroad manners were nothing like a 200.
• Go down south and get something. Fluid film it 2x a year and it will live a long and happy rust free life. I flew to Atlanta and drove home my 2015 and it still looks new underneath after two Wisconsin winters with Fluid Film application.
• Miles don't scare me, but I also do all my own work. I saved a pile of money by buying a 3 year old Land Cruiser with 100k miles on it. Like 20% over one with 60k on it. Let some other sucker take the depreciation. My LC was 100% dealer serviced with a stack of receipts and just did soccer mom duty so it was impeccable. Everything down south is a ways, so its easy to see how it racked up the miles.
• The only thing I liked better about the 4Runner I had (had a 2017 for a brief minute) was the cup holder fit a 32oz Nalgene bottle with no drama and the roll down rear window. The Land Cruiser was better in every aspect, and I would gladly trade a roll down rear window for the split gate of the Land Cruiser.

 

[bloc]

The 2018+ KDSS bolts are no less prone to rust than the earlier ones. It helps that 2018s have less time & miles on them though.

OP I’d have to see the KDSS valve to make a determination on that vehicle.

 

[WesSiler]

If you're only out $4k on the 2020 4Runner, pull the trigger. Those things are dogs. Sounds like you should have bought the Limited anyways, on which you can get KDSS and full time. But yeah, you'd still have the rental car interior, minivan motor, and The World's Worst Transmission! (TM)

Some weird info here on stability control vs AWD. You can read some more correct descriptions on those here: What Makes a Car Good in the Snow?

 

[Madtiger]

If you're only out $4k on the 2020 4Runner, pull the trigger. Those things are dogs. Sounds like you should have bought the Limited anyways, on which you can get KDSS and full time. But yeah, you'd still have the rental car interior, minivan motor, and The World's Worst Transmission! (TM)

Some weird info here on stability control vs AWD. You can read some more correct descriptions on those here: What Makes a Car Good in the Snow?

4runner Limited has XREAS and full-time. No KDSS.

 

[WesSiler]

4runner Limited has XREAS and full-time. No KDSS.

Ah, it's the Off-Road: The Adventurer: Toyota 4Runner Gains New Safety and Multimedia Tech for 2020 - Toyota USA Newsroom

 

[Madtiger]

Ah, it's the Off-Road: The Adventurer: Toyota 4Runner Gains New Safety and Multimedia Tech for 2020 - Toyota USA Newsroom

But the Off-road does not have full-time. I never understood that. Damn it, if i bought LIMITED, then i want the best of everything. KDSS instead of XREAS. But instead, Limited is like a fancy narrow minivan.

 

[Wisluggo]

Yep, I don’t have an army green one but rather a mgm one. I didn’t care for the green, but the gray is better than the standard black/white.

 

[TeCKis300]

Sidebar, but so we're factually correct. KDSS, X-REAS, and AHC are all variants of the same core cross linking technology developed by Tenneco Inc. Each one with additional layers of capability and competency. In that order. KDSS is the more basic variant, acting on the sway bar with the ability to resist roll while allowing for articulation. X-REAS applies the same cross linking but acts on the shocks directly to to resist roll while allowing for articulation, and also applying damping between the axles. AHC, well you already know it's the granddaddy computer controlled do everything variant.

KDSS can potentially have an advantage for more extreme modders as the shocks can be changed with aftermarket units, while keeping the cross-linked capability.

 

[Madtiger]

Sidebar, but so we're factually correct. KDSS, X-REAS, and AHC are all variants of the same core cross linking technology developed by Tenneco Inc. Each one with additional layers of capability and competency. In that order. KDSS is the more basic variant, acting on the sway bar with the ability to resist roll while allowing for articulation. X-REAS applies the same cross linking but acts on the shocks directly to to resist roll while allowing for articulation, and also applying damping between the axles. AHC, well you already know it's the granddaddy computer controlled do everything variant.

KDSS can potentially have an advantage for more extreme modders as the shocks can be changed with aftermarket units, while keeping the cross-linked capability.

As noted previous, i disagree with your classification or ”layers of capability & competency” (huh?!). That’s nonsense frankly. Each System has it’s purpose and function. Not one is superior to the other...certainly not one is the grandaddy of anything. But that is for another discussion.

 

[TeCKis300]

As noted previous, i disagree with your classification or ”layers of capability & competency” (huh?!). That’s nonsense frankly. Each System has it’s purpose and function. Not one is superior to the other...certainly not one is the grandaddy of anything. But that is for another discussion.

You don't have to agree. Objectively and factually, this is the case. As you said earlier, if you bought a limited, you would want the best of everything. That is exactly the case as Toyota has delivered between X-REAS and KDSS. Whether you want to believe it or not is inconsequential.

 

[Madtiger]

You don't have to agree. Objectively and factually, this is the case. As you said earlier, if you bought a limited, you would want the best of everything. That is exactly the case as Toyota has delivered between X-REAS and KDSS. Whether you want to believe it or not is inconsequential.

So, 4runner Limited is more capable than 4runner Off-road? (Hint: Hell no) FYI: Limited does NOT offer rear locker nor MTS, unlike other cheaper trim levels. Limited bumpers are low hanging. Limited is really just a body-on-frame Highlander in disguise. Most are sold in 2wd.

4runner Limited XREAS is meant for on-road handling...and Limited reflects this in what it offers on the interior and exterior. XREAS is not an off-road system. Thus, Limited is tailored more for on-road bling...thus, the low-hanging bumpers, big flashy rims, and no locker nor MTS. So, 4Runner Limited is kinda like a poor man’s Lexus LX! In fact, XREAS shocks give out quite early with any off-roading...usually around 60k or less it goes kaput...60k milestone is also important in AHC too, no? Coincidence i think not! (just kidding to LX folks)

Objectively, each system has different purpose/priority. Factually, each system has their own plus and minus. Not one is superior over the other. Different design, different purpose...made by same company.

But hey, you know this already with your 30 years of engineering experience over me...as you claim recently in a pissing contest.

 

[TeCKis300]

So, 4runner Limited is more capable than 4runner Off-road? (Hint: no)

4runner Limited XREAS is meant for on-road handling. It is not an off-road system. Thus, Limited is tailored more for on-road bling...thus, the long-hanging bumpers, big rims, and no locker nor MTS. So, 4Runner Limited is kinda like a poor man’s Lexus LX!

We can run in circles all day. I did't suggest that the limited was better than the off-road variant overall. I was specifically talking about kdss vs x-reas, which you assumed wrongly.

FYI, KDSS sole ability is to improve on-road handling, i.e. roll resistance, while being able to fully disable/decouple itself off-road. It's not an off-road tool in that respect as it's equivalent to no sway bar. Sway bars earn their keep for on-road handling and are a hindrance off-road unless they can be fully decoupled.

X-REAS does all of that, but also enables between axle damping, therefore improving on-road AND off-road.

AHC, does all that and a bag of chips, improving everything, on-road, off-road, clearance, blah blah.

I had an 4Runner Limited btw. Great car. Just as the LC is a great car. And just as the LX is a great car. They are tailored different for different tastes. Objectively, they will do things different and or better than others. LC likely has durability that exceeds all of them by virtue of less complexity and more robustness. Don't confuse that for capability however. Seriously, there's no need to be butt hurt and unable to have an adult discussion.

 

[Madtiger]

KDSS decoupling of anti-roll bar is kinda a BIG thing off-road. LOL. And the fact that it has thicker anti-roll bars for less body roll is just icing on the cake. KDSS does not involve shocks.

XREAS does NOT improve articulation. RTI scores show this. XREAS just connect the shocks diagonally for better on-road handling around corners. XREAS does not involve anti-roll bars.

Two very different system. Two purpose. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for AHC, AHC strangely does NOT improve clearance off-road (stock LX vs. stock LC) nor does It improve articulation nor does it improve handling over KDSS...despite your Incorrect claim of superiority. AHC does lower itself nicely when you park at the country club.

 

[04UZJ100]

Let’s argue over 4Runners on a 200 forum.

On another note - let’s argue about tires and tire pressure.

Ready. Set. Go.

 

[afgman786]

Your LC is superior don't worry about what others have to say. You can go and rest now...

 

[bloc]

Let’s argue over 4Runners on a 200 forum.

On another note - let’s argue about tires and tire pressure.

Ready. Set. Go.

This.

The guy wants a landcruiser. Why is ANY discussion of AHC vs KDSS without OP asking about it happening here?

 

[LCtoLX]

Last fall, I picked up a 2020 TRD Pro 4Runner. It's a good truck, but probably more adventure-oriented than me and my family really are at this stage (with a toddler). I have longed for a LC for some time, and we are trying to decide if we should pull the trigger on a 200 series family hauler. It's certainly a bit larger but we are most interested in the safety side of things with the full time 4x4.

So, we are either looking at a 2016 with 76k miles (upper $40s) or biting the bullet and getting a used 2019 for upper $60k. I would plan on keeping the truck for a while so I don't mind getting what makes the most sense for our family. I am just not sure if the $20k in price difference is worth the 60k difference in miles.

I realize 76k miles isn't anything for a LC, but it makes us nervous to have something out of warranty. If you were in my shoes, what would be crossing your mind?

And if you see a Blue/Terra combo out there, let me know

Get the LC. You’ll not be disappointed.

You asked what would be on our minds in you situation. Just my opinion but I’d look into the possibility of buying MBI for the 2016 LC. Someone chime in here and correct me but you may be able to even get Toyota insurance. Many here don’t think that insurance is worth it but for piece of mind it sure helps. And even if it isn’t, 76k miles isn’t a lot for an LC.

You also mentioned safety and I think the ‘16 has all the same as the ‘19 (versus earlier models). Above and beyond driving in snow, there are nice safety features that could save your bacon should such mishaps become too close for comfort. My dos centavos.

 

[Sac Cerevisiae]

@Wisluggo
If money is an issue, the 2016 is almost identical to the 2019 save for the following (off the top of my head)

• Potential rear screens removed. (Honestly, It’s so easy to take them out. I just installed them back for a road trip and took them off the other day. Takes 5min per screen)
• Auto power folding mirrors
• Power lift gate
• Capacitive screen vs the resistive found in <November 2018
• Potential new radiator design

To my eye the rust looked fine. Some elbow grease, and fluid film or por-15 will take care of everything.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

For just the KDSS bolt change, I think it’s a down grade honestly.

Both KDSS bolts leave the thread exposed. The new version doesn’t have some flanged head that seals the threads up.

But where the 2008-2017 had a super strong Allen head bolt, on the‘18+ you get an 8mm hex head. 8mm hex!! Are you kidding me! For reference, take the header of the block and tell me how many round out. That what ‘18+ owners are going to be dealing with in the future.

I’ve gotten a lot of KDSS screws loose at the shop. I’ve shattered impact grade 1/2 socket 5mms off but never opened up the Allen head hole.

But we know just how crappy tiny hex head bolts are and you’ll never be able to apply even close to the level of pressure as you could with the old ones.

When you get in deep in the newer 200s, I don’t know guys, there’s places where I’m finding them saving money.

 

[fjcruising]

You’re gonna take a beating on your 2020 TRD Pro trade-in. You sure you want to do it in the first place? Yeah, you don’t have full-time 4wd but your 4runner does have VSC for on-road highway safety...full-time 4wd of LC200 makes it a little safer but it is not like your 4runner is a Pinto. How about getting more on-road oriented tire to offset lack of full-time 4wd? For example, I would consider buying Michelin Defender LT (best on-road truck tire IMO...tough enough for occasional off-road and great in bad weather) for your 4runner?

And your 4runner is a NEW vehicle that you bought from day one...that’s kinda nice feeling vs. buying a used vehicle.

Now, IF you were to jump to LC200, then i would buy the best LC that you can afford...without putting you in a financial black hole. I am kinda paranoid about job security with COVID still around.

2019 vs. 2016......2018+ LC200: KDSS bolt change, automatically power-folding outside mirrors, late-2018s have new radiator design, powered lift gate, non-mandatory rear entertainment, newer transmission software (flashable on 2016-2017), and new key design. (I have put potentially important stuff in bold.)

So, if those changes above sound amazing, then get 2019. If those changes sound superficial, then get 2016...if everything else being equal.

I bought an 09 with 130k on it. After 20k miles on it, there is nothing about miles that scare me. Monthly payments of over $650 scare me. Done that, don’t want it. Btw, my 100 has 210k and hasn’t missed a beat. They do both eat brakes for breakfast tho...