Newbie to J200 Crawl Control noise question (1 Viewer)

[mcgaskins]

CRAWL is useful in 2 scenarios - as a party trick to show your buddies what it's like, and when you're stuck in deep sand. The 8 speed 1st and 2nd gears are so low, there are very few situations in which CRAWL is useful as a braking tool, and in my experience I found it to be dangerous as it does indeed try to keep you pointed exactly straight. When you're wheeling, you want as much control as possible, and I don't like leaving things like braking and accelerating to a computer that is programmed to keep the vehicle at exactly a certain speed and is not smart enough to see the line you're taking, the terrain you're in, the cliff that could be inches from your tire, etc. CRAWL is indeed trying to keep you pointed exactly straight, but I would say the vast majority of the time when I'm wheeling I am NOT taking a perfectly straight up and down line.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it works by pulsing the brakes at a high rate, and if you use it for long, you're cooking your brakes and brake fluid. That not only diminishes it's effectiveness, but it also negatively affects normal braking when the system gets hot and likely overheats. I wholeheartedly think everyone should try it out to see what they think, but I do not recommend it in precarious situations

If you're already stuck especially in sand, you have very little to lose to try it, but I personally do not like it for any other situation. We tried it here a couple weeks ago, first by itself, then front maxtrax, then front and rear maxtrax. CRAWL worked ok by itself and moved the truck a couple inches, but this was endless sugar sand and it required 4 maxtrax and backing up to get out.

 

[chris777]

Those are some sticky tires.

Crawl control uses the brakes.

Yeah, you are right. It does use the brakes. So the reason i like to avoid the brakes is to keep them from heating up, and, because it seems more enjoyable to not use your feet at all. Just your steering wheel and your eyes. What about the PAC button. Should i use that instead of crowl contol for long steep descents?

 

[bloc]

I have trouble seeing our brakes overheating at the speeds typically found in low range where crawl control would even be an option. Especially if the correct transmission gear is selected.

Does anyone know whether crawl will automatically hold the transmission in S1 or similar? Or do you also need to select a gear other than Drive to get appropriate engine braking?

 

[mcgaskins]

I have trouble seeing our brakes overheating at the speeds typically found in low range where crawl control would even be an option. Especially if the correct transmission gear is selected.

Does anyone know whether crawl will automatically hold the transmission in S1 or similar? Or do you also need to select a gear other than Drive to get appropriate engine braking?

Not only possible but probable under prolonged use. Here is one thread, but there are many instances especially when you look at the other Toyota products that have CRAWL. The system in the 200 is more robust, but it is still not uncommon whatsoever due to the fact it is constantly pulsating the brakes over and over at usually "extreme" angles and situations. Crawl Control Overheating?

 

[bloc]

Not only possible but probable under prolonged use. Here is one thread, but there are many instances especially when you look at the other Toyota products that have CRAWL. The system in the 200 is more robust, but it is still not uncommon whatsoever due to the fact it is constantly pulsating the brakes over and over at usually "extreme" angles and situations. Crawl Control Overheating?

Good point, I was only thinking of the brake parts at the wheels.. with the pressure booster and ABS module being so active it would be entirely possible to overheat them, especially when normal everyday use is mostly a passive state.

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm not going to say CRAWL is better or worse than other strategies. It's situationally dependent just like any special widget that doesn't get used often. As special tools go, it takes some learning to maximize its effectiveness in those particular situations.

CRAWL has special tractive and braking capabilities that cannot be replicated by a driver alone. We only have access to a single accelerator and brake pedal. The computer has access to 4 accelerators and brake pedals, one for each wheel. With the ability to modulate based on input of which wheel has traction.

As the saying goes, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

 

[M1911]

I used it once on an uphill shelf road in CO that was covered in large, flat, loose rocks. I had been having some trouble keeping steady momentum going up. Crawl control worked well in that situation. Yes, it is very noisy.

I've never used it going downhill -- haven't seen the need. Low range, first gear, and careful use of the brakes were all that I needed. YMMV.

 

[Mogwai]

I've been in some deep uphill moguls w/ loose-ish dirt and CRAWL was less drama than my foot. I know I know... it's the driver... I'm just saying it worked haha...

Then there was this one-time we were blasting up a hill with soft and deep sand and so I thought it would be fun to try CRAWL. So I threw it on, it started to work, so I grabbed a cold beverage, got out of the truck, and and walked to the top of the hill to wait for my truck to arrive. About 5 minutes later when it didn't I peaked down the hill and found a turtle. CRAWL didn't work in either direction at this point

 

[chris777]

what i learned today was that the only thing that allowed me to descend a steep dirt hill was in Crawl control on level 2. In 4wd Lo in gear S 1 i was going too fast unless my foot was on the brake pedal the whole way down. In my unlocked FJ 60, 1st gear in 4WD Low was plenty slow enough to crawl down without any brake pedal. I have been wheeling my beloved FJ60 on extreme trails for 34 years. As i approach my 70s, i was hoping for some technology to make off road life for me and my new wife a little easier. That is why we spent $66k on a new Land Cruiser. So i am a little disappointed that it doesnt perform on descents as much as my 85 FJ60. And with all the swing outs, rock sliders, and steel bumpers, and steel rood rack, i am sure it weighs almost as much as my J200. That 2F engine really is amazing at how much it can lug down the RPMS on a descent. I wont be selling my FJ 60. I will use my 200 to haul her up to the more challenging trails.

 

[M1911]

what i learned today was that the only thing that allowed me to descend a steep dirt hill was in Crawl control on level 2. In 4wd Lo in gear S 1 i was going too fast unless my foot was on the brake pedal the whole way down.

I’m confused. Why do you think it is wrong to have your foot on the brake while descending?

 

[bloc]

And if that is the single metric by which you judge trailworthiness then have at it. I think a 60 and a 200 in the garage is a hell of a combination. But you have to admit they are two very different vehicles and experiences, despite the shared name.
Even if you feel the 60 is better on descents, I’d argue you will be MUCH better off inside the 200 if something goes wrong. Just to point out one feature of the 200. Then there’s the power & comfort.. ventilated seats!!

 

[chris777]

Well, i was taught by my off road mentor to always try to keep your feet off the pedals when going down a steep descent. Of course, i tap them occasionally, but i prefer to let my engine and the gearing do all the work. But i am new to driving off road in an automatic, so maybe using the brake pedal more is the way i need to descend. I am learning to drive this modern vehicle. I guess i am just surprised that this 8 speed tranny doesnt have as low of a gear as my 5 speed. I do prefer my 200 when climbing. And of course when driving on the highway. My 60 only has 135hl, can you believe it?

 

[chris777]

And if that is the single metric by which you judge trailworthiness then have at it. I think a 60 and a 200 in the garage is a hell of a combination. But you have to admit they are two very different vehicles and experiences, despite the shared name.
Even if you feel the 60 is better on descents, I’d argue you will be MUCH better off inside the 200 if something goes wrong. Just to point out one feature of the 200. Then there’s the power & comfort.. ventilated seats!!

when i take my 60 on adventures i have over a hundred lbs of spare parts. From water pumps to slave and master cylinders, 17 hoses, I repaced a motor mount year before last on the White rim Trail. And i can replace my starter motor in under 30 minutes. But you are right, i am much more confident in this low milage Cruiser, which gives me a lot of peace of mind. it sure looks like it would be very hard to work on, on the trail if the starter needed replacing! But i wont worry about that now. I do love this truck. Im just trying to learn to make the adjustments to driving it. Thanks for your help, the scary noises in crawl control dont alarm me any more.

 

[bloc]

when i take my 60 on adventures i have over a hundred lbs of spare parts. From water pumps to slave and master cylinders, 17 hoses, I repaced a motor mount year before last on the White rim Trail. And i can replace my starter motor in under 30 minutes. But you are right, i am much more confident in this low milage Cruiser, which gives me a lot of peace of mind. it sure looks like it would be very hard to work on, on the trail if the starter needed replacing! But i wont worry about that now. I do love this truck. Im just trying to learn to make the adjustments to driving it. Thanks for your help, the scary noises in crawl control dont alarm me any more.

That’s why I did the starter in my driveway at about 120k miles even though it hadn’t shown any signs of failure.
Yes, these aren’t your 60 or 80. But like my argument above, they are worth the trouble, as long as you don’t absolutely need the solid axle capability of the earlier models.
I’m glad we are helping you learn. I’ve owned a bunch of vehicles including the vortec 80 in my signature.. and lately I’ve realized this 200 is my favorite one of all. That’s saying a lot.

 

[chris777]

That’s why I did the starter in my driveway at about 120k miles even though it hadn’t shown any signs of failure.
Yes, these aren’t your 60 or 80. But like my argument above, they are worth the trouble, as long as you don’t absolutely need the solid axle capability of the earlier models.
I’m glad we are helping you learn. I’ve owned a bunch of vehicles including the vortec 80 in my signature.. and lately I’ve realized this 200 is my favorite one of all. That’s saying a lot.

Thank you!

 

[afgman786]

what i learned today was that the only thing that allowed me to descend a steep dirt hill was in Crawl control on level 2. In 4wd Lo in gear S 1 i was going too fast unless my foot was on the brake pedal the whole way down. In my unlocked FJ 60, 1st gear in 4WD Low was plenty slow enough to crawl down without any brake pedal. I have been wheeling my beloved FJ60 on extreme trails for 34 years. As i approach my 70s, i was hoping for some technology to make off road life for me and my new wife a little easier. That is why we spent $66k on a new Land Cruiser. So i am a little disappointed that it doesnt perform on descents as much as my 85 FJ60. And with all the swing outs, rock sliders, and steel bumpers, and steel rood rack, i am sure it weighs almost as much as my J200. That 2F engine really is amazing at how much it can lug down the RPMS on a descent. I wont be selling my FJ 60. I will use my 200 to haul her up to the more challenging trails.

View attachment 2394151

Nice picture!
Also, I would agree with you that it does suck that 1st doesn't hold you down hill the way you want.

I feel like that's a trait of wheeling an automatic though... I've noticed wheeling in manual 60s and 40s that they do a helluva good job downhill in 1st compared to an automatic.

Maybe the more technical can chime in and correct me, but I wonder if it has to do with the torque converter in an auto not being locked up that doesn't hold the speed as well in 1st compared to a manual in 1st.

 

[bloc]

At higher RPMs there shouldn’t be much slip in the TC but yes, it is still more slip than an engaged clutch.

 

[M1911]

Well, i was taught by my off road mentor to always try to keep your feet off the pedals when going down a steep descent. Of course, i tap them occasionally, but i prefer to let my engine and the gearing do all the work. But i am new to driving off road in an automatic, so maybe using the brake pedal more is the way i need to descend. I am learning to drive this modern vehicle. I guess i am just surprised that this 8 speed tranny doesnt have as low of a gear as my 5 speed. I do prefer my 200 when climbing. And of course when driving on the highway. My 60 only has 135hl, can you believe it?

Your 200 with an automatic is likely better on descents than your 60 would be if your 60 had an automatic. Manuals and automatics have advantages and disadvantages. If you have to stop and then restart on a steep section, that is a lot easier in an automatic than a manual. Easing over an obstacle can be easier in an automatic as you can left foot brake and don't have to slip the clutch. Automatics have less engine braking than manuals, so you have to use the brakes on descents. Not a big deal.

 

[TeCKis300]

Automatics have less engine braking than manuals, so you have to use the brakes on descents. Not a big deal.

This is a good point. Manuals for off-road are usually geared way lower than autos.

 

[chris777]

Ive learned a lot. Ok, thanks everybody. I will not avoid using the brake on descents in S 1 when i choose not to use Craw Control.