ID these dizzy's please? (1 Viewer)

[erics]

looking to confirm what i've got here...

OEM with black label has points - thinking might have come from a 74 I parted? is it vacuum advance or retard?

OEM with green label I'm thinking is from a 79, same as the igniter/coil?

wondering if the aftermarket one is worth anything to anyone and what the adjustment knob does... adjusts advance?

appreciate any knowledgeable assistance - thanks

 

[erics]

ooops here is aftermarket unit

 

[Dizzy]

When the barb is inside of the diaphragm, it is a retard, like your suspected '74. Advance is on the outside of the diaphragm. So, my '75 has an igniter and coil, a different look though, making it a semi-transistorized type, points will last longer/need less adjustment.

I wouldn't touch the aftermarket without knowing that the gear is Toyota pitch and quality. Many of these things were designed for GM, IIRC.

It is a toss-up between the '78 and the suspected '74. I bought a new one, because the centrifugal weights are on a plastic bushing, and the whole thing gets eaten up from ozone rust. Maybe Mark or FJ40Jim can rebuild the internals, but I'm a firm believer in a fresh distributor, so I'm using a new OEM non-USA unit. @4Cruisers can help with mods? I'm going to reserve comment on vac advance/retard, until someone actually produces data from a dyno test

 

[4Cruisers]

Dizzy has it right, 19100-60080 is an F engine vacuum retard distributor - 9/73 through 1/75. 19100-61100 is a 2F engine electronic vacuum advance and retard distributor - 9/77 through 1/79.

 

[erics]

thanks for the replies guys - I'd since confirmed by playing with them that the suspected 74 is vacuum retard - when vacuum is applied it rotates internal plate clockwise (same as rotor). Dizzy, not sure what you mean by the barb is either inside or outsode of thediaphram... you mean closer vs farther away from the dizzy shaft?

on the later one with two barbs I was expecting it to be a dual advance where the second is for additional advance controlled by the HAC. In playing with it the barb closest to the shaft and oriented parallel to it does nothing (probably blown) and the other provides advance (rotating the plate CCW). If for dual advance/HAC which one would be which? On a 60 dizzy the one closer to the shaft is primary and the farther one is for HAC (as I understand)

pretty sure the aftermarket one matches LC specs because it came out of a 60 I parted - can anyone confirm what the dial on it does?

I probably wont be using any of these - I have a 60 big cap that will be going onto a 60 engine thats going into my 45...

 

[4Cruisers]

Dual advance advancers have two diaphragms, inner for "normal" advance and outer for additional advance at high altitude. There is one vacuum nipple outboard of each diaphragm.

 

[4Cruisers]

IIRC the electronic 2F distributors had dual advance starting in 1/79.

 

[4Cruisers]

In case you're interested, I'm selling new NipponDenso single diaphragm vacuum advancers that are modified to fit FJ60 distributors. They're intended for Land Cruisers without HAC (like your FJ45), where the outer diaphragm is not required. Their vacuum advance curve is similar to the advance curve of the '77 2F distributor (19100-61021). Your dual advance advancer could be sold or kept as a spare.

 

[65swb45]

Eric, The third unit with the black cap is a grenade disguised as a distributor. You’ve heard of the Black Death? Thousands of Landcruisers have died untimely deaths at the hands of that Delco unit. The first thing Marv Spector told me in 1986 when I met him was to take that thing and throw it as far as I could, like a hand grenade.

 

[erics]

Eric, The third unit with the black cap is a grenade disguised as a distributor. You’ve heard of the Black Death? Thousands of Landcruisers have died untimely deaths at the hands of that Delco unit. The first thing Marv Spector told me in 1986 when I met him was to take that thing and throw it as far as I could, like a hand grenade.

thanks Mark - how does it kill?

 

[Downey]

The problem was (past tense) MAF sold those Delco dizzy, but didn't put a Landcruiser drive gear on them. The Delco gear has the same number teeth, the same distance apart, but on a different phase angle. Sooooo the cam is always trying to kick that dizzy up out of the engine, Sooooo MAF made a heavier hold down clamp, an now since the dizzy couldn't kick up out of the engine, the drive gear just pulverized itself. To best understand the issue, you have to understand that if the dizzy was kicked up approx. 1/4" the engine would still run, but the oil pump would have lost engagement since the end of the dizzy shaft would no longer be driving the oil pump.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

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[erics]

The problem was (past tense) MAF sold those Delco dizzy, but didn't put a Landcruiser drive gear on them. The Delco gear has the same number teeth, the same distance apart, but on a different phase angle. Sooooo the cam is always trying to kick that dizzy up out of the engine, Sooooo MAF made a heavier hold down clamp, an now since the dizzy couldn't kick up out of the engine, the drive gear just pulverized itself. To best understand the issue, you have to understand that if the dizzy was kicked up approx. 1/4" the engine would still run, but the oil pump would have lost engagement since the end of the dizzy shaft would no longer be driving the oil pump.

Ouch, Black Death indeed! Proud heritage from MAF... though Downey you said past tense so did they acknowledge and respond to the issue? Or at least correct it with a proper gear going forward after discovered? Very interesting - seems like this thing should be preserved as part of history.

 

[Downey]

I don't know if MAF ever knew of the problem, or corrected it, but I wrote "past tense" since that dizzy has not been available for eons.

 

[erics]

I wonder how pervasive the problem actually was, IE how many defective units made it out to cause havoc before it lapsed out of stock or was fixed... if the number was indeed thousands, then that's pretty notable but if tens or hundreds then less so...

Is there anyone on Mud from or inside-knowledgeable of old school MAF days?

 

[thebigredrocker]

Very cool that @Downey and @65swb45 would take the time to leave some old school knowledge here for us.

 

[65swb45]

I wonder how pervasive the problem actually was, IE how many defective units made it out to cause havoc before it lapsed out of stock or was fixed... if the number was indeed thousands, then that's pretty notable but if tens or hundreds then less so...

Is there anyone on Mud from or inside-knowledgeable of old school MAF days?

What do you want to know?

 

[thebigredrocker]

You’ve heard of the Black Death? Thousands of Landcruisers have died untimely deaths at the hands of that Delco unit. The first thing Marv Spector told me in 1986 when I met him was to take that thing and throw it as far as I could, like a hand grenade.

"hand grenade" that would be a bitchin' song

 

[Downey]

Actually MAF must have known about the problem since they made a heavier duty hold down clamp ??? I bet a Toyota drive gear (that did fit the Delco shaft perfectly) would have cost less (at that time, 1970's) to buy than their heavier duty hold down clamp ???

 

[Dizzy]

It must have been a cool time, back then, before online. I'd imagine that someone in some off-road magazine would have talked about all the inexpensive wrecking yard mods that you could potentially get away with. The likes of Muncie granny gearing, GM ignition, Saginaw power steering, GM tilt column, Rochester carb, Monte Carlo disc brakes, GM engines, alternators, ect., would have let everyone have their own creative outlet for building a personalized Cruiser. Now those parts have dried up from the local salvage yards, and the antiquated Toyota technology has its own kind of charm, and availability. I really wouldn't mind an old GM straight-6, in a 40, 55, or, a Second Generation Chevy/GMC Pickup properly built as a trail rig.