e85 Flex Fuel Conversion on 2007 LX470 (2 Viewers)

[J1000]

Certainly a cool thread. All that’s left to do is find a gas station that has e85

Around here there is tons of E85 at gas stations. Just about every Kum & Go has it and lots of other stations too. I have 2 really close to home and also near my work. I own 3 cars and they are all flex fuel and I haven't put regular gas in any of them for months. Now I get snotty when I smell regular gas exhaust, ugh it's just so gross!

TwinJRod, awesome DSM! Definitely faster than my car haha! I'm running on Megasquirt MS3x ECU

 

[gungriffin]

What is the third car? Now I am curious. Do you ever go to High Plains Raceway?

I have a BMW 335i with the N54 that I am getting ready to take to about E40-50. I am looking forward to it. Hoping that I can get to about the low-mid 400s.

 

[J1000]

I have an '05 Civic Si with some work and a 200whp K20Z3+6 speed swap that's my daily driver. It's a fun little car that's cheap to drive and offsets some expense of the LX. With a K-pro ECU and ethanol sensor it runs flex fuel like OEM. Here's the build thread:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/f...ryday-driver-honda-ep3-civic-si/140042/page1/

And yes HPR is awesome. I haven't been there recently but raced Spec Miata on it a few times.

 

[TwinJRod]

J1000,
After you installed the smaller or efficient injectors have you ran just normal 85 octane pump gas?
I was wondering how much that mod alone helped with overall MPG. Leaning the AFRs out a little with the better atomazation injector I would think would result in better MPG.

 

[J1000]

Yeah I've run on regular gas but the MPG aren't affected too much by the injectors. The ECU compensates easily in closed loop so it still runs at 14.7:1 all the time except WOT. It runs smoother and has way better low end with the new injectors, though. There's a thread on here about that. I think the only way to get a real MPG improvements is to advance the ignition timing in cruise which is not possible without aftermarket ECU or piggyback ECU.

 

[J1000]

I've been doing some experimenting lately using different fuels. For the most part of last year I ran exclusively E70 from Kum & Go. For the past few months I've been running their E15 86-octane blend, 85 E10 normal ass gas when the prices drop, and recently E10 91 octane. My MPG on each is almost exactly the same at 12-13 MPG. It's just not making a difference I am getting the same mileage on all of the fuels. I really expected the 91 octane to give me a noticeable boost but it was just the same. I have to reiterate that I drive fast but even still I try to keep it in 5th gear OD as much as possible on the highway and don't jump off the line at red lights I just drive like most people I think and these are my results.

I think just for kicks I will try to find an ethanol free station and run a few tanks through and see what happens. Otherwise I will just be putting the cheapest per gallon fuel I can find in the tank and send it.

See my fuel mileage logs here: http//www.fuelly.com/car/lexus/lx470/2007/vitaminj/835719/log

It should show what fuel I'm using somewhere but isn't showing for me unfortunately. You can probably figure it out from the price. There are a couple single digit fuel ups those are either snow days with lots of idling and sitting in traffic or towing my trailer or both.

 

[J1000]

Today I replaced my fuel pump. Everything was working fine but I was reading about fuel pump failures and apparently the 06/07s fail at a slightly higher rate and usually around 250k. I'm at 227k so I thought I should just do it because it's very easy. I was perusing Amazon and found this AEM pump which is for a Lexus GS but is specifically designed for E85 fuel...and it's green so you know they're serious. It was also about 1/3 the price of the 100 series OEM fuel pump. AEM is a good brand so I went for it: Amazon.com: AEM 50-1215 AEM50-1215: Automotive

It's not strictly drop-in for my LX470, unfortunately. I had to cut up my stock pump rubber buffer and trim the metal bracket so everything sat nicely and then used a couple hose clamps to hold it in place. I also used this fuel proof heat shrink after soldering the wires: https://amzn.to/2wP2xHs

I really, really want to turbocharge this truck and should that ever become a reality then this pump is more than adequate and can flow up to at least ~700hp or so on E85.

You can see the stock pump I pulled out sitting next to it. I decided with 227k it probably is not worth much on the used market and since I have been running it on mostly E85 for about a year and a half and 25k miles that I should pull it apart and inspect it. There was some discussion earlier in the thread about E85 causing the fuel pump to fail.

From what you can see, there is basically no discoloration or damage or anything else noticeable inside or outside the pump. I did basically destroy it disassembling it but otherwise it looks great.

For reference below is a photo of my buddy's Walbro 255 fuel pump. It is not E85 rated and he removed it while doing winter upgrades to his fuel system and noticed these specs of corrosion on the motor case from E85 use after only 1 year. My Toyota pump has none of that

 

[J1000]

I think I definitely had a failing/worn out fuel pump. Climbing hills or accelerating with a trailer at around 60-70% throttle and above 4000rpm the engine would start to lean out. It would go 15.4:1 and even leaner! I could always go WOT and the AFR would drop to the 12s, but then I'd start accelerating instead of holding the speed I wanted. After the new pump it no longer does this, it will stay around 14.5:1 AFR now all the time except for WOT.

 

[hankinid]

I also used this fuel proof heat shrink after soldering the wires: https://amzn.to/2wP2xHs

That tubing is not "fuel proof"...not in the slightest. If continuous solvent resistance is needed, I'd recommend using something made with Viton. What you did use is standard inexpensive general purpose tubing and should be OK as long as it doesn't see solvent immersion or splash.

 

[FlammableFishie]

I really, really want to turbocharge this truck and should that ever become a reality then this pump is more than adequate and can flow up to at least ~700hp or so on E85.

Same. I'm curious why you haven't gone the route of just wiring in another MS3 as a piggyback to this system. Especially since you already have one running your Miata. It also seems like you have a ton of different apps to measure things that are all covered by an OBDII scanner app, any reason?

Also very glad you're doing this before me! My first step is probably figuring out a piggyback setup to start tuning NA, then start down the path you're on.

 

[J1000]

That tubing is not "fuel proof"...not in the slightest. If continuous solvent resistance is needed, I'd recommend using something made with Viton. What you did use is standard inexpensive general purpose tubing and should be OK as long as it doesn't see solvent immersion or splash.

Thanks for the recommendation. I did keep a piece of it in fuel for a couple days and nothing happened to it.

Same. I'm curious why you haven't gone the route of just wiring in another MS3 as a piggyback to this system. Especially since you already have one running your Miata. It also seems like you have a ton of different apps to measure things that are all covered by an OBDII scanner app, any reason?

Also very glad you're doing this before me! My first step is probably figuring out a piggyback setup to start tuning NA, then start down the path you're on.

My Miata is on a full standalone MS3 install. I basically followed the path laid out by others. For my LX I am worried about keeping it emissions legal so I can keep it on the road. I'm worried Colorado is following in California's footsteps and we will soon have something similar to CARB. The Miata is a 1996 so it runs under slightly different emissions rules than the 2007 LX. I do own a MAP3 ECU which is a piggyback designed for Toyotas and other makes. The install on that is pretty in depth and I've had plenty of other maintenance to do so it's still sitting in the box.

For the apps I use Torque which reads the OBD, but then I have to use the eFlexFuel app to read the ethanol content from the ethanol sensor and I use Dragy to measure precision 1/4 mile times. Each does something different.

 

[J1000]

The COVID-19 pain is real and we are all struggling. I am running 85 octane again

Im not interested in adding more ethanol to my fuel mix for numerous reasons, but I am interested in your mod and to know the long term impact and results.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Have you been keeping up?? I hope so. I know how skeptical you are.

 

[2001LC]

They may pay us to fill-up.

 

[J1000]

Look at all these jerks who couldn't wait to throw shade and spread doom and gloom and insult me. Where are they now?

Im not interested in adding more ethanol to my fuel mix for numerous reasons, but I am interested in your mod and to know the long term impact and results.

Good luck and keep us posted.

What are the long term effects on a 'factory' fuel system? I have always heard it is extremely corrosive as a solvent and melts rubber and if the system was not designed for it then you are preparing for expensive repair bills. Also I have heard you lose mileage, lots of it.
I don't think we even have E85 here, max 10%, then again growing fields of corn isn't our Governments idea of productive...

There have been reports that the ethanol content in today's gasoline has caused issues with the charcoal canister deterioration and fuel pump overheating. Are any of these concerns when you are converting to this type of setup?

I can already tell you what is going to happen.
You can run any gasoline engine on E-85 with no conversion kit, you WILL loose MPG, your fuel pump WILL die sooner than later.
I ran E-85 in my '89 Camry for 3 years because I was dirt ass poor after my divorce. I only drove it about 5,000 miles a year, fuel pump died and I scraped the car. Only paid $500 for it. Car only had 180k when I bought it from it's original owner.
I also ran E-85 in a work van for almost a year, a Ford Econoline with the 5.4L Triton V8, ran like a raped ape until the heat of summer and would not start in the morning once fall came, but the conversion kit would take care of that.
Also ran it in a Volvo turbo wagon for a few years.
Ran it in my lawn mower, don't do that. It will not be happy and you'll need a new carburetor.

The only benefit of the conversion kit wold be cold starts and hot days. On hot days you need more fuel because the ethanol evaporates inside the intake and never reaches the cyclinder, on cold starts you need more fuel because ethanol has less power than gasoline and you need more of it to start the engine.

I have an app on my phone to keep track of MPG, if you are really committed to this and reporting back to us please keep track of your MPG using an app.
So run 3 tanks of E-10, what's your MPG average.
Then run 3 tanks of E-85, whats your MPG average?
5 tanks of each would give you a better MPG average, but I do understand the time it would take to get those numbers might be prohibitive to you and your situation.

High ethanol fuels (more ethanol than E85) is corrosive to aluminum, magnesium, and can degrade rubber O-rings. Everything I have read says you only get about a 2% torque increase for a non-tuned NA motor running E40. The potential for fuel system damage isn't worth it, IMHO.

Ethanol has about 33 percent less energy than gasoline. This is not a guess, it is factual science. It just has less energy in it per gallon.

So, the more ethanol in the fuel, the worse the fuel economy you’re going to get. Not better. Nope. (Science, again).

Gasoline with 10 percent ethanol yields about 3-5 percent less fuel economy than straight gas. E40? Just do the math. You can't get better gas mileage running ethanol. Cleaner, sure. Can you run a lower octane gas with ethanol and save money (less detonation)? Yep.

More mileage? Nope. The ONLY reason to use ethanol in gas is because it has higher octane and burns cleaner, with less emissions. You can tune a high-performance engine to take advantage of the cleaner burn and higher octane (racing engines and forced induction), but this kit does not do that, best I can tell.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Look at all these jerks who couldn't wait to throw shade and spread doom and gloom and insult me. Where are they now?

Most of the people you quoted said they were interested in your experiment and didn't throw any kind of insult your way. A few doubted the efficacy of the project and I'd say they are still here, along with those who were hoping to see a benefit like a power increase or mileage improved/money saved. The data you've provided indicate it's mostly been breakeven - you replaced your fuel pump as it was on its way out, and gas is under $1.50 in your last picture.

It's a cool experiment, and you've shown that over 2 years it hasn't caused you major issues. LCs lasting for over 30 years may also mean that a two year cross section may not be enough data for most. You may never get the recognition that you're looking for on this project - but you did it for yourself, and you should be proud you've pulled it off.

Hats off for trying something new, especially with a vehicle that most want to keep only as Toyota made it.

 

[J1000]

Most of the people you quoted said they were interested in your experiment and didn't throw any kind of insult your way. A few doubted the efficacy of the project and I'd say they are still here, along with those who were hoping to see a benefit like a power increase or mileage improved/money saved. The data you've provided indicate it's mostly been breakeven - you replaced your fuel pump as it was on its way out, and gas is under $1.50 in your last picture.

It's a cool experiment, and you've shown that over 2 years it hasn't caused you major issues. LCs lasting for over 30 years may also mean that a two year cross section may not be enough data for most. You may never get the recognition that you're looking for on this project - but you did it for yourself, and you should be proud you've pulled it off.

Hats off for trying something new, especially with a vehicle that most want to keep only as Toyota made it.

Sorry. I can understand sarcasm when I read it. I've already paid for the kit and saved myself money several times over global pandemic or not. Paid for the fuel pump also which was already going to fail in ~25k miles regardless of the type of fuel and I disassembled it and it showed no E85 corrosion . I'm all for criticism but not jerks.

e: that one dude was calling me a lying paid shill! He never aplogized lmao. Go through their post histories and you'll see they are repeat offenders.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Keep it to tech please, no need to dredge up post histories, apologies or call people jerks. Thanks.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Sorry. I can understand sarcasm when I read it. I've already paid for the kit and saved myself money several times over global pandemic or not. Paid for the fuel pump also which was already going to fail in ~25k miles regardless of the type of fuel and I disassembled it and it showed no E85 corrosion . I'm all for criticism but not jerks.

e: that one dude was calling me a lying paid shill! He never aplogized lmao. Go through their post histories and you'll see they are repeat offenders.

It wasn't sarcasm, I was (and still am) being genuine. It's cool that you went for it.

 

[J1000]

It wasn't sarcasm, I was (and still am) being genuine. It's cool that you went for it.

You weren't they were. The moderator now dressed me down but didn't care that people were trying to look up my employer and trying to say I had alternate accounts on this site and that I was a lying paid shill. Thanks for your support.

 

[Biga27110]

Look at all these jerks who couldn't wait to throw shade and spread doom and gloom and insult me. Where are they now?

In for later is insulting?