3 Link vs. Superflex? (1 Viewer)

[richardlillard1]

Springs and shocks won’t offer more travel on a stock setup. The radius arms will bind at a certain point and when they reach that point, they are typically putting a lot of stress on the things they are attached to.

A longer shock will Allow more travel, yes. But at the expense of the above mentioned.

Kits like the slinky lift are only designed to allow that travel without springs coming unseated and with the shocks being longer to accommodate when force flexing does happen.

This is how radius arm flex works, one is going up, the other is going down. They are fighting each other in both directions, hence the stiffer front end the 80 has.

From that point it becomes metal compliance, which is why we’ve seen radius arm mounts cracked, axle housings with cracks, etc.

 

[LC4LIFE]

As you can see, the inside of the frame doesn’t really have much structure to it.

I had to fix one that did that, although not quite as bad. You can fit a nice big piece of 3/8 inside the frame and rosette it and then get the upper link bracket welded to the 3/8. I agree, hard wheeling may cause issue at that upper link....especially with 37' or bigger size tires.

 

[Blade 80LC]

I’ve run both; the truck is currently 3 linked, previously ran the superflex arms for a few years, before that it was a lift with no caster correction and stock radius arms.

As one of the few who have run both 3-link and Superflex, would you care to comment if one had better on road manners? How about how much better than stock radius arm configuration either performs offroad? Any situations where you wished you were back to either stock or Superflex?

For myself I'm nearly certain to call it "done" with the moderate lift I have, and 35" tires I have. The original poster may have deeper pockets than I, or a stronger desire to try to make the 80 something other than what it usually is. If not myself or the OP, it's likely that someone will see this thread that is seriously trying to decide. Knowing nothing more than what I've seen in this thread about the OP, I'll say I agree that he'd be well off to start with springs, shocks, and caster plates and see how it goes. The springs and shocks should still be useful if he moves to Superflex, and most caster plates can be removed and original position bolts re-used.

 

[Lumpskie]

Also curious @richardlillard1 . I saw your old posts when you were first running the Superflex setup. I know that the 3 link will provide much greater freedom of motion and can't really be fairly compared to radius arms. But, I'd love to hear your thoughts on stock arms vs superflex arms. (I understand the design behind them but can't seem to find anyone who can compare their real world experience to stock) For guys who already have caster correction, you can get 1 superflex arm for around $500... wondering if there really is noticeably freer front freedom of motion.

 

[Calidevildoc]

The Science Behind Superflex Arms | Superior Engineering

^^ according to this page, if you look at the chart towards the bottom, where it says TEST 1, TEST 2, TEST 3, TEST4:
The TEST 1 shows 97mm of travel for stock setup with swaybar connected. Thats only 3.8 inches. TEST 2 shows 155mm (6.1 inches) of travel with the swaybar removed. Its basically saying that a stock FJ80 has 3.8 inches of travel in the front with swaybar, and 6.1 inches without the swaybar. Does that sound correct to you guys? Am I understanding that chart correctly?

 

[Delta VS]

There are some kits out there that arguably offer far more than a Slee lift. Slinky Long Travel Toyota 80 Series on Icon Suspension Aus Spec Kit Intermediate 75mm Lift

And 1991-1997 Toyota Land Cruiser [80 Series] 3" Suspension System - Stage 3 | K53093

Similar to your second link (includes most of those parts), don’t forget about this one: F(Z)J80 DVS+ICON "Full kit"

A 3” ICON kit with all the Delta parts to get your geometry correct.

 

[Delta VS]

The Science Behind Superflex Arms | Superior Engineering

^^ according to this page, if you look at the chart towards the bottom, where it says TEST 1, TEST 2, TEST 3, TEST4:
The TEST 1 shows 97mm of travel for stock setup with swaybar connected. Thats only 3.8 inches. TEST 2 shows 155mm (6.1 inches) of travel with the swaybar removed. Its basically saying that a stock FJ80 has 3.8 inches of travel in the front with swaybar, and 6.1 inches without the swaybar. Does that sound correct to you guys? Am I understanding that chart correctly?

What they are likely (I hope) referring to is travel at the spring itself. Did a very unscientific study at the shop with personal rig (has 2.5” OME springs and 315/17 tires and Delta radius arms) and a forklift a while ago, lifted passenger front wheel three times, once with both sway bars attached, once with front sway DEtached, once with both detached. Both attached there was something like 28” under the lifted tire, 28-1/4” with the front detached, and 28-1/4” with the both detached.

On edit: so that tells me there is some missing info on what they changed. Or my test was flawed in some major way.

On second edit: OR, the OME medium springs just ain't care about swaybars. Good chance with softer/longer springs there is more of an effect.

 

[maxamillion2345]

A triple locked 80 on 35s with a 4” lift will go a lot of places and still drive nicely. Run some kings for a nice ride and party.

If you want a little more then step up to 37s.

Went to Moab with a few guys, there were 3 of us with 3 linked 80s on 40s and 1 80 with 37s and a lift and he was able to wheel all the same trails, mostly...

 

[Calidevildoc]

Similar to your second link (includes most of those parts), don’t forget about this one: F(Z)J80 DVS+ICON "Full kit"

A 3” ICON kit with all the Delta parts to get your geometry correct.

Great, thanks for the suggestion! Will keep that in mind.

A triple locked 80 on 35s with a 4” lift will go a lot of places and still drive nicely. Run some kings for a nice ride and party.

If you want a little more then step up to 37s.

Went to Moab with a few guys, there were 3 of us with 3 linked 80s on 40s and 1 80 with 37s and a lift and he was able to wheel all the same trails, mostly...

Ah, this is valuable information! Thanks for sharing the experience! Do you remember if he was running stock radius arms?

 

[maxamillion2345]

Great, thanks for the suggestion! Will keep that in mind.




Ah, this is valuable information! Thanks for sharing the experience! Do you remember if he was running stock radius arms?

Yep all stock but a lift and 37s with fender cutting. I mean he couldnt do all the same lines and we had to spot him through some stuff but still...

Step it up to a 3 or 4” lift, 35s, lockers and some armor and go have fun. You can wheel pretty hard on that setup.

I’d run that until you’re no longer satisfied and by then you’ll know what you need/want to change.

 

[richardlillard1]

Just springs (2.5” with 1” spacers on all four corners), regular OME shocks (not L’s), 37s and no caster correction. This truck did fine at the hammers; worked a little more than mine did, but still got through everything. He also removed the front sway bar, which I’ve found isn’t as noticeable on stock radius arms as the front is using the axle housing as a sway bar (hence a lot of the cracking of mounts and housings I mentioned).

Pictured on the first waterfall on Clawhammer.

Again, mine got through everything a little easier but we were surprised at how well a barebones 80 with limited travel did.

 

[richardlillard1]

How it drives...

Well, it understeers now in the front end which took some getting used to. There’s more body roll, but it’s somewhat benign and climbing things the front end feels more stable as the roll center is now much higher in the front end.

The super flex arms did well, I liked them but as with any 80 radius arm design it drug them on everything. The biggest advantage I saw from them was that the front with no sway bar and the rear with a sway bar made the truck flex very evenly. With the 3 link the front can go through something but the body movement is dictated more by the rear now which can feel awkward until you get used to it. It took a few months before I felt confident in how the truck works off road with that change.

The 3 link I’m running also has zero wheel recession so it climbs things easier and stays more planted when the weight is off the front. Is this necessary to wheel the truck? No, but it is a difference which is noticeable.

If I were putting super flex arms on I wouldn’t waste the money on a set with caster built in. I would buy a set of caster plates from @NLXTACY and then buy a single “stock” arm from them and put that on for the same effect. We built a Superflex arm for a friend’s truck doing exactly this and it has worked just as well as the high dollar pair of arms I had but for a fraction of the price.

The Superflex arms work by applying more leverage to the bushings. As a result they flex easier than stock, but do still bind as any radius arm setup will.

 

[White Stripe]

I had slee 6" arms with 5" coils. I bought the rig to fix n flip. Never wheeled it. I did feel like that at 5" I imagine it was at the ride height at which it would start to be detrimental with too high cog. The radius arm suspension is simple and lasts a long time for moderate wheeling.

 

[Calidevildoc]

Another question I had: At what lift height do we need to consider double cardan drive shafts? Would we only need this in the front or front plus rear?

 

[baldilocks]

Post 5 is where you can stop reading for now.

 

[Cass007]

@Calidevildoc ... Come up to Rausch Creek with some of the Keystone Cruiser people and do some trails and ride in different setups (2nd Saturday of every month). I don't think anyone has a 3-linked 80 series, but you can see what trucks with lifts and different sized tires ride like and are capable of doing.

I started doing trails on stock suspension and 33" tires early in 2018 and basically dragging on rocks, bottoming out repeatedly and having to take soft lines on even some of the basic trails. Many members have 3-5" lifts and 35" tires with lockers of some sort and their trucks are very capable for our area of the country. Several of them have also had their vehicles out west to Moab without issue as well, not sure about Rubicon.

Currently I'm running a 3" lift, 1" body lift, Dobi springs and long travel shocks on 37" tires with no cutting/trimming and the difference is night and day. I drive over most trails without any worry or difficulty. It has made the wheeling experience exponentially more enjoyable. The truck is now way more capable then the size of my ego. I'm sure I will grow into that and maybe down the line need something more, but for now it's more than enough for the local terrain and probably most of the stuff out west as well.

I looked into the Superperformance arms as well and just couldn't justify the cost, especially after already purchasing all the other lift components and paying for some install labor to get things properly sorted.

If you are using @nukegoat or @richardlillard1 (as well as a few others here) as a benchmark you are either made of money, have mad fab skills or are just aiming way too high.

Obligitory flex shot of my truck ... cause pics help sell a post

 

[nukegoat]

Dolla bills yall

 

[Ronny Grady]

35’s with 4” Dobinson lift & lockers runs the Rubicon no problem - but you can always want more!

 

[nukegoat]

View attachment 1883372 35’s with 4” Dobinson lift & lockers runs the Rubicon no problem - but you can always want more!

Did you bypass old sluice?

Just like many folks say about the rubicon, though, making your rig more capable isnt just a means to an end... its a journey on its own with its own merits. If you just want to visit the rubicon you can hike it

 

[baldilocks]

Old Sluice isn’t about huge travel, it’s about how much body carnage you can stomach. We all need to remember that rocks can be placed strategically if necessary, pride willing.

Before doing a 3 link, if I wanted to do all the huge stuff, I would amor up, have lockers and 40’s or bigger on 5” of lift max and cut the body for tire clearance/up travel, then wheel it to see what is really necessary. But then again, if you want to do the big stuff and you are sure of this, before you take one trip, install tons to handle those big tires and then do your three link with the money that was made from selling the old axles and suspension.

Seriously, if your gonna go big, inmo, messing with the 80 stock axles is asking for trouble down the road.

If you really need a three link, and not just for poser pics, then you need tires larger than 37 which beg for one ton axles. All one needs is the money and the desire to do major body alterations.