Wheel and tire analysis paralysis. (1 Viewer)

[MrCWineMan]

Okay, this is a tough one for me. I have been working on finding the perfect solution for wheels and tires on my black 2016. Here are the details that I am working with:

• I am on SAR here in Colorado - we have lots of off road missions, I don't need to use my car, but there are missions where it is easier/better than getting in one of the SAR vehicles.
• I love skiing and drive into the mountains a good bit.
• I currently have stock wheels and BFG AT KO2's in 285/60R18 that are getting towards the end of their tread life.
• The KO2's are great everywhere save for ice and frozen surface stuff - I have cables so I can always use those, but that takes time and no one likes crawling under the car in the snow.
• I have access to Duratracs and Wrangler W/ Kevlar at very good pricing - but I can only get them in 285/70R17 - which means new wheels - I love me some Rock Warriors, but Toyota says they won't sell them to me b/c my car is not a TRDPro.
• Currently I am stock height and weight plus Bud Built sliders and drawers - going BP-51's soonish.

So why all of this background? Because I am asking you to decide what I should do! I have been down this path over and over again and I just can't figure out what I think is the best move - so I am asking Mud to decide for me.

Picture. Because why not?

200 series on the moon

• MrCWineMan
• Feb 6, 2017

Well not the moon - but lit looks the part.

 

[Markuson]

Eeny meeny miny mo...

You’s the only one who know.

 

[KLF]

The "perfect tire" is like the "perfect girlfriend". Doesn't exist. The can be great, but you know that sometimes they just piss you off.

I have KO2's on RW rims for good weather. They are coming off in a few minutes, I'm installing Nokian R3's on factory rims.

That's BS about the TRDPro requirement. I thought the 17" RW's were no longer available new, but they will sell them to anybody that pays for them. Go somewhere else, scan the Classifieds, search on craigslist.

 

[gaijin]

I think you need to put 285/60R18 studless snows on your 18" OEM wheels and buy a set of 17" TRD RW wheels and mount the LT285/70R17 KO2's on them.

Here's one dealer that will sell them to you (note 4 in My Cart on this page):

PTR45-34120 TRD Wheel -17 inch Forged Alloy ONE (1)

HTH

 

[grinchy]

Oh. I love opinion shopping!

The definitive best tire for 18" is 285/70/18 Nitto Ridge Grapplers. They are $300+ each. 34"

If you want to take a walk on the less traveled side, the Milestar Patagonia M/T is getting very positive use reviews (small sample size though). They have 275/70/18 33" or 35x18. $200 each or so.

I run duratracs now and am not in love. They're a solid all-around tire, probably much like the KO2s are.

I'm going with the Milestars for my next 'A/T' set, unless something better comes along in the interim.

 

[codyaustin5]

Why not just get the same KO2? Sounds like they work great? No all terrain is going to be great on ice.. Do you definitely want new rims?

Rock Warriors don’t go with the TRD Pro did you mean the new TRD Pro wheels? I was able to buy them no problem.

 

[Markuson]

It sounds like you put a lot of miles on your KO2s. So...you should have a pretty clear idea of their performance for your use.

The gripe you list is their performance on ice.
If ice is a common element for you...keep thinking. If not? I suspect a NEW set of KO2s would remind you how well they perform when not near the end of their tread life.

 

[T4Runner]

PTR45-34120 TRD Wheel -17 inch Forged Alloy ONE (1)

TRD Rock Warriors were at one time offered by Toyota as accessories for 200 Series Land Cruisers on their main website. I’m not certain as to when they stopped offering them but they did (I’m guessing around 2015). At a later date, they discontinued selling the wheels altogether; however, while not as ubiquitous as they once were some new ones are still available (such as in the above link), although I believe most source takeoffs on eBay, CL, or via the classifieds on Mud. They used to be much more affordable but supply and demand happens...

As far as what rubber you should wrap them in, I can’t help you there.

 

[swatski]

Watching!
I'm thinking this will be my next set, albeit I am not all that much in snow and mostly on paved roads, but with some boat ramps. There were some very good reviews of those tires here, they are inexpensive, and fit the stock wheels.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C53DIF8/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

--

 

[Chocolate]

17" will allow you the most sidewall.

Relevant:

 

[TeCKis300]

Personally, AT to me means all-terrain, but more importantly confidence for all weather. I find that most all terrains perform sufficiently well for my uses off-road. The biggest differentiator is all weather, rain and snow performance. The lack of good winter performance from the KO2's is what drove me away from that tire. And is what led me to the Falken AT3Ws. 3W for wear, wet, and winter. Between the innate capabilities and competencies of the 200-series, then add in a great all around tire, makes for a vehicle that is always setup right for everything I need to tackle.

For that, I'd suggest keeping your 18s. Then pairing them with a 305/60/18 tire.

Huge footprint to maintain excellent dry weather handling and braking performance, even when switching to an AT tread/compound. Great tire lift to get the most clearance under the axles, and minimize suspension lift as that keeps it in its most optimal geometry for handling. Great diameter and width for flotation on soft snow. Plenty of sidewall even for an 18" tire. I could go on.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Personally, AT to me means all-terrain, but more importantly confidence for all weather. I find that most all terrains perform sufficiently well for my uses off-road. The biggest differentiator is all weather, rain and snow performance. The lack of good winter performance from the KO2's is what drove me away from that tire. And is what led me to the Falken AT3Ws. 3W for wear, wet, and winter. Between the innate capabilities and competencies of the 200-series, then add in a great all around tire, makes for a vehicle that is always setup right for everything I need to tackle.

For that, I'd suggest keeping your 18s. Then pairing them with a 305/60/18 tire.

Huge footprint to maintain excellent dry weather handling and braking performance, even when switching to an AT tread/compound. Great tire lift to get the most clearance under the axles, and minimize suspension lift as that keeps it in its most optimal geometry for handling. Great diameter and width for flotation on soft snow. Plenty of sidewall even for an 18" tire. I could go on.

Just my 2 cents.

I just feel that when you get this tire in an LT, which means you loose the silica compound, they become average at best.

I put my brother on AT3Ws, but he’s running standard load tire, and they are great in Florida rain storms.

But if I wanted a tough tire, for off roading, it would be a LT with silica...

Which is why I like Coopers, generally, not all the time, but most of the time. Side note, my cooper STT Pros did pretty good over ice covered Illinois bridges last year. Silica baby!

 

[EastPlnsDrifter]

There are too many places where you can run into ice in El Paso County. You want winters or Duratracs. When I had this same problem (KO2 vs Duratrac vs Ridge Grappler), I looked at the El Paso County Sheriff's Dept Tahoes and noticed the Duratracs and that put Duratracs over the top. With your SAR work I don't know if that would matter, but that would stand things out for me even more.

This forum had me sold on Rock Warriors. Between Craigslist and trdparts4u I had four wheels and a brand new spare. This was my first and most useful mod. Your build plan isn't too different from mine (I still need drawers and sliders but have BP51s now).

As to performance, the Duratracs have been great. I live just off Elbert Highway in Northern El Paso County and generally have to drive up to Centennial regardless of weather. They've worked on the sheet ice that accumulates in Black Forest and they performed great for me through Great Sand Dunes up Medano Pass only aired down to 30 psi. Only complaint about Duratracs have been the sidewalls feel a bit like snow tires when it comes to handling. Not sure how they do in rocky stuff. Tread life has been great. Only down to 14/32s from 18/32s after 30k.

No regrets. Forum/Craigslist RWs (or new Evo Corsas if you're in a hurry) and Duratracs would be my vote. Only thing doing it over I'd do is get new TPMS sensors for the RWs instead of transplants from the factory wheels, and if I couldn't get a better price on Duratracs I'd give Exo-Grapplers a try but would still likely stay 285/70/17 on LT load range Es.

 

[TeCKis300]

But if I wanted a tough tire, for off roading, it would be a LT with silica...

It's not an all or nothing proposition here. There's more that goes into tire design than just compound, though I agree it's a big part of it. It's not a stretch to understand that an LT tire compound would be formulated to have a tougher tire carcass. Yet this fact is likely common to all tire lines, P vs LT. LT's typically also get more aggressvie/taller blocks. The rubber simply has to be tougher to hold up to taller tread profiles, higher weight, and abuse in an LT tire.

So if the AT3W is wet and winter focused, it's likely going to have that enhanced trait relative to other AT brethren, LT to LT.

 

[mcgaskins]

The lack of good winter performance from the KO2's is what drove me away from that tire. And is what led me to the Falken AT3Ws.

So what experience do you have with a KO2 in winter driving living in San Diego?

To the OP - I live not far from you in Denver, and I have the KO2s on the LX. As you already know from having a set, they're very good in just about all conditions. No all terrain tire will excel in hard packed snow and ice like we get on 285/70, and I think the only option for excelling in these conditions is a dedicated snow tire like the Blizzak. If you're going to wheel at all though, a dedicated snow tire will not hold up to the abuse. The Duratracs are a good all around tire when they're new, but the sidewall ripping issue is well documented on many forums when wheeled. I've run them both and prefer the KO2 by a lot.

 

[MrCWineMan]

Woah - thanks for the huge response so far!

@EastPlnsDrifter - SAR is part of the El Paso Count Sheriffs Office, all of our rigs are on Duratracs.. or treads. In fact I was driving one of our rescue trucks up 24 and Pikes Peak Highway on Sunday morning in the snow, those tires do a nice job in the frozen surface stuff. And like I said - I love me some Rock Warriors! If you ever want to see the sliders and drawers in person, let me know - we are pretty close together.

@Taco2Cruiser - I haven't looked at the Cooper SST's - how is the decomposed granite and trail type running?

@TeCKis300 - I've had the Falkens on an old truck and was never really a fan, but this was like 15 years ago and a different truck (my old 4Runner when I was living in NH). As for the 305 - do you see rubbing without the 1in spacer you run, or did you add the spacer to avoid that rub?

@Chocolate - Exactly! More sidewall more better.

@codyaustin5 - So what I did is find the new rock warrior wheel part number (PTR45-35010) and call my local dealer. They confirmed that they could get 5 of them for $350 a piece (not too bad right!) and that there are 191 in the Toyota warehouses (also not too bad). I said go for it, but they called me back saying that I had to have a TRD Pro VIN to make this purchase and since that is not a LC option, obviously, they can't sell them to me. I think I found a dealer that will sell them to me at $330 - but I have to ship them - either way, I'm liking this option at this point. So much like @gaijin suggested - I'm liking this option.

@Markuson - I mean you are right, only I can know.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

It's not an all or nothing proposition here. There's more that goes into tire design than just compound, though I agree it's a big part of it. It's not a stretch to understand that an LT tire compound would be formulated to have a tougher tire carcass. Yet this fact is likely common to all tire lines, P vs LT. LT's typically also get more aggressvie/taller blocks. The rubber simply has to be tougher to hold up to taller tread profiles, higher weight, and abuse in an LT tire.

So if the AT3W is wet and winter focused, it's likely going to have that enhanced trait relative to other AT brethren, LT to LT.

No disagreeing with you, just simply stating that I like a tougher tire, which means LT, and 3 ply sidewalls. I’ve felt too many times the benefits of a silica based compound, and I like to have that if I can. Which is why I mentioned Coopers.

AT3W loose silica when going to LT. So... meh. But also, AT3Ws are 2 ply sidewall, which I will never run. I cannot remember the last time I want wheeling with someone with 2 plys, and then not having issues.

Just last Appalachian Toyota Roundup, I watched two Cooper AT3s blow a sidewalk (not same truck), and two Falken AT3W sidewalks blow (again not same truck), and one Duratracs.

But I’m a wheeler, not a gravel road with some small 3-6” rocks driver.

 

[TeCKis300]

So what experience do you have with a KO2 in winter driving living in San Diego?

Totally fair. We don't get practically any weather down here in San Diego. Which is why I go chase it.

I'm an avid skiier and visit mountains and snow country often. Absolutely hate using chains especially in the foothills where conditions change mile after mile. During rainy season, they can get there share of torrential downpours. It's a big reason I have the cruiser. Again, this is where I find tires for me make the biggest difference, as unsuitable tires become a huge liability and safety issue. My previous NTGs on my 100-series were not good AT tires for wet/winter weather. I considered KO2's, and who wouldn't as they are the benchmark tire. More annectdotal feedback that they weren't great in snow due to their relatively harder compound. Surprisingly, I found some great feedback on the ATW3s for snow and wet whether use, which is what turned me on to them. Not saying they're the best tire in the world, but I took the leap based on feedback gleaned from a lot of research. I've been happy with the all around performance I've had from them and I'm sharing my experience.

@TeCKis300 - I've had the Falkens on an old truck and was never really a fan, but this was like 15 years ago and a different truck (my old 4Runner when I was living in NH). As for the 305 - do you see rubbing without the 1in spacer you run, or did you add the spacer to avoid that rub?

I can't speak for any of the earlier Falken's. But I do know they have had many iterations, and the current AT3W is a relatively new design.

Yes, it'll need .75 or 1" spacers, and no rub after some slight adjustments which are well documented on here. I don't love spacers but it's not necessarily a bad thing when combined with a lift, to increase track width, and maintain cornering stability. Another one of my interests is sports cars and track racing. The LX, with this wheelset and setup still can put-up solid handling and traction in the mountains.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

@Taco2Cruiser - I haven't looked at the Cooper SST's - how is the decomposed granite and trail type running?

I’ve ran a lot of tires, I mean a lot, and I’m being critical when I say this, but I bet far more than most. All for off-roading and to deal with highway to ultimately go off roading.

The STT Pro is a hell of a tire, if I could get it in a size I really wanted, then I’d be really happy.

That said, it’s loud, it’s pretty rough when new, and they like to get balanced around ever 15,000 miles.

They are a real off road tire, but surprising the best tire I’ve ever been on during heavy rain slippery roads. From El Paso, TX (have you felt when those roads get wet? It’s like ice) to Florida and Savannah, GA. They are phenomenal in the raid.

Make no mistake, they are not going to sounds or feel like KO2 on the highway (has those right before the STT Pros). STT Pros are smooth, it’s the weight, the big lugs, and sound they produce. You really need to be ready for them. And while they did the best out of any off road tire I’ve had in snow and ice, they are no ice tire, and if ice is your issue, get a stud less ice tire.

I know if it was me, if had an aggressive summer mud tire, and a dedicated winter tire on stock wheels. With me soon moving north, it’s only a matter of time before that’s a reality.

 

[Markuson]

Listen to the Taco (@Taco2Cruiser) .

He has strong thoughts/opinions simply because he has amassed a huge wheeling resume’ ...and scrutinizes his own choices.

Most here (myself included) have only a small fraction of T’s field testing.